Law Vs Grace, or Law AND Grace?

[BlindSeeker]

WolfBitn's

Precepts

Its pretty hard to misinterpret scripture when you take a nonmetaphorical statement and believe it as it is written... this leads us to believe that his sin was then willing

How could his sin be willing when we already established that Adam was gullible not knowing good or evil. The reason why only Eve was charged with transgression is because after realizing what she did, instead of bearing the consequences alone, she beguiled Adam. That's the point.

WolfBitn's

And youre right... Satan didnt deceive Adam... just as the scripture says. Yet Adam transgressed the law and ate of the tree, but God also made a way to be merciful through sacrifice

Because they weren't capable of knowing good and evil until they ate of the fruit.

Adam had a perfect knowledge of good and evil. He was clearly told by God that he could eat of every tree in the garden, that was good. He was also told that is he ate of the forbidden tree he would die . . . that's evil.

The knowledge Adam gained by his sin cost him everything. It was a tainted knowledge of good and evil . . . and every since them mankind has been doing what is right in their own eyes.

De 12:8 Ye shall not do after all the things that we do here this day, every man whatsoever is right in his own eyes.

Jg 17:6 In those days there was no king in Israel, but every man did that which was right in his own eyes.

Pr 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

Pr 21:2 Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts.

Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

This actually is the driving force of our sin nature; to do what we think is right from our own selfish perspective.

[WolfBitn]

No person who is indwelt by the HOLY SPIRIT of GOD will continue down the path of sin. Many in the church who have a religion but no real relationship will continue in sin because they are not saved and are not the adopted children of GOD. Now, there are those who are not set free from bondage that GOD has not determined to set them free from. But, they are still a people who have the love of GOD in their spirit, even if their flesh still serves sin. GOD will deal with this in HIS time and where such sin exists, grace is greater.

There is therefore no condemnation for those who are in CHRIST JESUS. For they are lead by the spirit and not the flesh. More importantly, they will be judged by a righteous and trustworthy GOD who will judge them by their spirit and not the works of their flesh.

This is a problematic statement, even though it argues in favor of my point that we shall live by the Spirit and not by the law.

I do not believe that every Spirit-filled believer ceases from all sin. Even James admits stumbles

James 3: 1 My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment.

2 For we all stumble in many things. If anyone does not stumble in word, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle the whole body.

It is better to say there is no condemnation for those who are in CHRIST JESUS. For they are covered by the blood of redemption. Being perfected and transformed from glory to glory.

I have heard others say truly born again believers cannot sin, and then I have seen their transgressions and heard them tell lies.

Would you agree we are under the law of 'repent and believe God'? Without these we have no salvation, we must obey these 2... agreed?

[canuckamuck]

Adam had a perfect knowledge of good and evil. He was clearly told by God that he could eat of every tree in the garden, that was good. He was also told that is he ate of the forbidden tree he would die . . . that's evil.

The knowledge Adam gained by his sin cost him everything. It was a tainted knowledge of good and evil . . . and every since them mankind has been doing what is right in their own eyes.

Now you are making your own version. In your Eden God planted a tree of tainted knowledge. That is bizarre.

Adam had no knowledge of good and evil, he had instructions to follow. If Satan had not spoken to Eve neither of them would have had thought to question the rules. It was the knowledge of good and evil that made them realize they were naked, and that they had transgressed. How is that tainted knowledge?

[canuckamuck]

Would you agree we are under the law of 'repent and believe God'? Without these we have no salvation, we must obey these 2... agreed?

I will agree that we must repent and believe in Jesus.

I do not believe that this truth has the title of "the Law of repent and believe"

I also don't think this law applied to Adam, because their was no reason for him to believe Jesus died for his sins. The Jews as well were unfamiliar with this law, the knew there would be a messiah, but they were required to make sacrifices for sin. They were under 'The Law' we have a choice: law or grace

[BlindSeeker]

Excuse me, but those commandments were written on tablets of stone by the finger of GOD and the brackets were placed in there to remind us that these are not written by men. I personally thought they were both appropriate and [obviously] necessary.

so, are only things written on stone tablets by the finger of GOD part of the Royal Law?

If your answer is no, then the statement is out of place.

So I will ask you again . . . are you saying that the Ten Commandments are not part of God

[BlindSeeker]

But He kept the law of God that stood in Adams day and stands now

the 10 commandments didnt stand in Adam's day

They were certainly there whan Cain Killed Able . . . and even though they were not there written in stone in Abraham's day either, yet God clearly gave witness to Abraham's obedience to them -

Ge 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed My voice, and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.

[BlindSeeker]

No person who is indwelt by the HOLY SPIRIT of GOD will continue down the path of sin. Many in the church who have a religion but no real relationship will continue in sin because they are not saved and are not the adopted children of GOD. Now, there are those who are not set free from bondage that GOD has not determined to set them free from. But, they are still a people who have the love of GOD in their spirit, even if their flesh still serves sin. GOD will deal with this in HIS time and where such sin exists, grace is greater.

There is therefore no condemnation for those who are in CHRIST JESUS. For they are lead by the spirit and not the flesh. More importantly, they will be judged by a righteous and trustworthy GOD who will judge them by their spirit and not the works of their flesh.

This is a problematic statement, even though it argues in favor of my point that we shall live by the Spirit and not by the law.

I do not believe that every Spirit-filled believer ceases from all sin. Even James admits stumbles

James 3: 1 My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment.

2 For we all stumble in many things. If anyone does not stumble in word, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle the whole body.

It is better to say there is no condemnation for those who are in CHRIST JESUS. For they are covered by the blood of redemption. Being perfected and transformed from glory to glory.

I have heard others say truly born again believers cannot sin, and then I have seen their transgressions and heard them tell lies.

Perhaps then the "others" you have heard say such are the ones who you should address then. That has not been claimed here by any . . .

However, Jesus is the best one to tell us how we are to "be in Him" in John 15 -

John 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

7 If ye abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be My disciples.

9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

Now some may mistakenly conclude they are "clean through the word which" Jesus spoke as if He had spoken a creative word of power like " Be ye clean," but that is not the case. We know this from the words of His prayer when He confesses them before the Father -

John 17:6 I have manifested Thy Name unto the men which Thou gavest Me out of the world: Thine they were, and Thou gavest them Me; and

they have kept Thy word.

10 If ye keep My commandments, ye shall abide in My love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in His love.

Even the Spirit testifies this effective cleaning through our obedience to Christ -

Re 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white: for they are worthy.

Re 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of Me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

Re 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Re 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to Him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and

His wife hath made herself ready

.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Paul put's it simply this way -

Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave Himself for it;

26 That He might sanctify and cleanse it

with the washing of water by the word

,

27 That He might present it to Himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

So then . . . what is this "word" where by we are washed ? What chapter and verse?

[canuckamuck]

So, are the Ten Commandments parts of the Royal Law? Or is it just,

[canuckamuck]

Blindseeker, in post 116 you misunderstand my comment but your reply is long, so instead of me clearing up your misunderstanding, please let Kross answer my post. Otherwise we will be way off course.

[kross]

No person who is indwelt by the HOLY SPIRIT of GOD will continue down the path of sin. Many in the church who have a religion but no real relationship will continue in sin because they are not saved and are not the adopted children of GOD. Now, there are those who are not set free from bondage that GOD has not determined to set them free from. But, they are still a people who have the love of GOD in their spirit, even if their flesh still serves sin. GOD will deal with this in HIS time and where such sin exists, grace is greater.

There is therefore no condemnation for those who are in CHRIST JESUS. For they are lead by the spirit and not the flesh. More importantly, they will be judged by a righteous and trustworthy GOD who will judge them by their spirit and not the works of their flesh.

This is a problematic statement, even though it argues in favor of my point that we shall live by the Spirit and not by the law.

I do not believe that every Spirit-filled believer ceases from all sin. Even James admits stumbles

James 3: 1 My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment.

2 For we all stumble in many things. If anyone does not stumble in word, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle the whole body.

It is better to say there is no condemnation for those who are in CHRIST JESUS. For they are covered by the blood of redemption. Being perfected and transformed from glory to glory.

I have heard others say truly born again believers cannot sin, and then I have seen their transgressions and heard them tell lies.

My first paragraph above did say that. There are those with sin still in their lives...........First paragraph. In the middle.

No one walks sinless in the world. What sin we overcome, we overcome by the power of GOD, the HOLY SPIRIT acting in ur lives to break the yoke of sin. Those sins we do not overcome are not overcome because GOD has chosen not to get rid of them or keep us from them. WHy? I would answer but then there would be this whole other set of questions and answers that would not be listened to anyway.

Salvation and sanctification are of the LORD. We are just fortunate that HE has given what HE has to us.