can salvation be lost?

[Guest]

.... Old knowledge is hard to loose, especially when generations of family, teachers, and pastors drum it into us throughout our youth ....

Yes

Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold,

from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb

without blemish and without spot:

1 Peter 1:18-19

Dear Brother

More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord,

for whom I have suffered the loss of all things,

and count them but rubbish

so that I may gain Christ,

Philippians 3:8 (NASB)

Ain't That The Truth

So, do we have anything to brag about? Bragging has been eliminated. On what basis was it eliminated? On the basis of our own efforts?

No, indeed! Rather, it is eliminated on the basis of faith. We conclude that a person has God's approval by faith, not by his own efforts.

Romans 3:27-28 (GWT)

For It Is Simply Jesus Christ And Him Crucified

Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart:

for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts.

Jeremiah 15:16 (KJV)

No Matter What Generations Of Unbelievers May Teach About The Blood Of The LORD

And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth.

Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Revelation 1:5 (KJV)

[Jedi4Yahweh]

The Doctrine is called "Eternal Security." OSAS is the pervision of it made up by people like you who don't understand Eternal Security and since you are hell bent on not allowing facts to get in the way of your misperceptions, you spinning a bunch of misconceptions about Eternal Security. Calling it OSAS only further distorts what Eternal Secuirty teaches.

Eternal Security is just another label for OSAS which is just another label for Perseverance of the Saint's from the TULIP doctrine espoused by Calvinism. They all mean the same thing, "once saved always saved".

Eternal Security does not address the issue of "living in sin." Eternal Security does not contain the idea that a person can live anyway they want and still remain saved. Rather Eternal Security is predicated on the NT teaching that a REAL Christian is a new creation in Christ. It is predicated on Salvation as an inward trasnsformation. That transformation precludes the possibility of "living in sin as much as you want." All Etneral Security addresses is the security of the believer. It simply affirms that a Christian can have full assurance that his sin is forgiven that he has been sealed unto the day of redemption.

Eternal Security may not address the issue of living in sin but it makes it clear that there is nothing you can do to lose this eternal security including sinful living. The bible makes it clear and warns us in many places that we must endure until the end to have this assurance and that we can lose faith in God and fall away from God.

Take care, brethren, lest there should be in any one of you an evil unbelieving heart, in falling away from the living God. But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called 'Today,' lest any one of you be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ, ""IF"" we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end (Hebrews 3:12-14).

The fact that you are trying to argue against a made up doctrine that does not exist, demonstrates that not only do you have a very shallow understanding of the nature of salvation, but you really don't know what you are talking about where doctrine is concerned.

Thats why God sent the all knowing doctrine expert Shiloh357 to save us from our ignorance. God forbid we try to understand the simplicity of the scriptures for ourselves, because we all know they don't mean what they say but only how Shiloh357 interprets them for us.

[Guest shiloh357]

QUOTE (shiloh357 @ Oct 19 2009, 07:52 PM)

The Doctrine is called "Eternal Security." OSAS is the pervision of it made up by people like you who don't understand Eternal Security and since you are hell bent on not allowing facts to get in the way of your misperceptions, you spinning a bunch of misconceptions about Eternal Security. Calling it OSAS only further distorts what Eternal Secuirty teaches.

Eternal Security is just another label for OSAS which is just another label for Perseverance of the Saint's from the TULIP doctrine espoused by Calvinism. They all mean the same thing, "once saved always saved".

Calvinism has a doctrine called "perseverance of the saints" whic is predicated on the TULIP. That much is true.

Eternal Security is not based on Calvinism it is not the same as "perserverance of the saints. Furthermore, you have it backwards. OSAS is a label for Eternal Security, but OSAS is what in ignorant and misinformed people use to distort and misapply values to Eternal Security.

Eternal Security may not address the issue of living in sin but it makes it clear that there is nothing you can do to lose this eternal security including sinful living.

That is a contradictory statement. The fact that it does not address the issue of living in sin, makes it impossible to claim it teaches that one can live in sin without losing salvation.

The bible makes it clear and warns us in many places that we must endure until the end to have this assurance and that we can lose faith in God and fall away from God.

"Enduring to the end" is the fruit produced in the life a believer, not the means by which salvation is procured. You make salvation dependent on "enduring to the end." The Bible teaches that "enduring to the end" will the natural outgrowth of salvation in the life of a believer. So you have this backwards as well. You simply don't understand the nature of salvation.

Thats why God sent the all knowing doctrine expert Shiloh357 to save us from our ignorance. God forbid we try to understand the simplicity of the scriptures for ourselves, because we all know they don't mean what they say but only how Shiloh357 interprets them for us.

The fact remains that you are not really qualified to address biblical doctrine. You demonsrate no understanding of the most basic elements of true Christian doctrine. You cannot even tell the difference between Eternal Security and Perserverance of the Saints.

[Jedi4Yahweh]

Eternal Security is not based on Calvinism it is not the same as "perserverance of the saints. Furthermore, you have it backwards. OSAS is a label for Eternal Security, but OSAS is what in ignorant and misinformed people use to distort and misapply values to Eternal Security.

What ever dude they mean exactly the same no matter how you twist it.

The fact remains that you are not really qualified to address biblical doctrine.

Not qualified??? Oh forgive me for not being qualified to read and understand the bible. Can you be any more arrogant?

So whats your qualifications, oh great one? (or I am to lowly to ask such a great thing of thee.)

You demonsrate no understanding of the most basic elements of true Christian doctrine. You cannot even tell the difference between Eternal Security and Perserverance of the Saints.

There is no difference. No matter what name you give it. Its still the same lie.

They both mean a Christian can not lose his or her salvation, no matter what? Your only twist is if they do fall away and do something hideous, then you say, they were never saved in the first place. So since you don't know for sure if he or she will fall away and commit apostasy how can you guarantee or teach anyone that hey have eternally security? I can see it now, "Now that you have come to my alter and said your lil' sinners prayer, your now Eternally Secure.......but in the future if you so happen to go and do some thingy really horrible such as murder, incest, adultery, oops scratch adultery, molestation etc.., we are going to deny that we ever guaranteed Eternal Security and we are going to say, you were ever saved to began with."

[leoxiii]

The fact remains that you are not really qualified to address biblical doctrine. You demonsrate no understanding of the most basic elements of true Christian doctrine. You cannot even tell the difference between Eternal Security and Perserverance of the Saints.

And your own qualifications are.........???

[Botz]

http://www.bouncelot.org/theology/predestination.php

An observation...both George Whitfield and John Wesley saw many people saved through their ministry...although they separated because of the tussle with the issue of predestination and whether salvation could be lost....and i don't think it is helpful my dear brother Shiloh, suggesting one side or the other are ignorant and misinformed.

[answered prayer]

while i do believe it would take alot i believe you can lose your salvation. we still always have a free will in the matter. but why would someone no longer chose God, that is almost incomrehensible! it would be lost on our terms, never on God's will and terms. Sincerely, Miracle

[Guest wingsofaeagle]

I have alwyas believed that salvation could not be lost and i have seen great scripture supporting both that it can and cannot be lost.

what do others think and what scripture leads you to think this?

let's look at three compelling reasons for believers to trust in eternal security.

1. The Finished Work of Christ: Reason #1 is the finished work of Christ indeed. We read in Hebrews 10 (another portion of the very same epistle that contains this oft-misinterpreted text in chapter 6) that when the Lord Jesus Christ came into the world and offered Himself without spot to God, the effect of His sacrifice was eternal. We read specifically in Hebrews 10:1-18 about the contrast between sacrifices under the law and the finished work of Christ. The conclusion: "but this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; from henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified." This concept is as clear as words can get, I do believe. How should we answer if someone asks us for how long this sacrifice perfects believers? Do we say "for as long as believers are faithful?" This verse cannot be read to say anything but "he hath perfected for ever them

[OneLight]

From my research on the term "Once Saved, Always Saved", I have found that this term came into play from Evangelist that were preaching against the Calvinist doctrine "Perseverance of the Saints". Since then, the term has become very popular and is used to describe the Calvinist doctrine. Right or wrong, it is here and is being used.

Personally, I find fault in both the Calvinist and Armenian doctrines. I neither believe that once a person is saved, no matter what they do, they will continue to be saved no more then I believe that salvation can be lost, as if being snatched out of Gods hand. What I believe is that those who continue in Him will, in the end, be with Him. Those who choose not to continue will, in the end, not be with Him.

As with every doctrine of men, the truth lies somewhere between the two.

[kross]

I thin one can lean on this simple fact;

HE that began a good work in you is faithful to complete it until the end.

All you have to do is ask yourself who started the good work in you. If you did, than completing it is up to you. IF JESUS did, then completing it is up to HIM.