can salvation be lost?

[Guest shiloh357]

I believe your Salvation can not be lost. Once you accept Jesus and receive the Holy Spirit, the scripture tells us that we are sealed until the day of redemption.

Eph 1:13-14 (AMP)

In Him you also who have heard the Word of Truth, the glad tidings (Gospel) of your salvation, and have believed in and adhered to and relied on Him, were stamped with the seal of the long-promised Holy Spirit. That [spirit] is the guarantee of our inheritance [the firstfruits, the pledge and foretaste, the down payment on our heritage], in anticipation of its full redemption and our acquiring [complete] possession of it

[kross]

I have been in many of these discussions. I think the dividing line comes at this one point;

There are those who believe they had to do something to get saved and to stay saved. They use the scriptures that exhort us to better works and persistance to say that these scriptures are warnings of consequences if we fail to do so.

There are those who feel they did nothing to get saved. That GOD chose them for salvation.They use the scriptures that tell us we are indwelt by the HOLY SPIRIT and seal untill the day of redemption, predestined by GOD to be conformed to the likeness of HIS son from the foundations of the Earth. Thus, we might stumble or fail, but GOD will never leave us and nothing can separate us from HIS love in JESUS.

So, the interpretation of the scriptures really comes from these diametrically opposed points of veiw;

Either I am the author and finisher of my faith, and as such I must do works and walk acording to that faith.

OR

I am saved by the power of the HOLY SPIRIT and though I may not walk perfectly in this world, my salvation is based in my relationship with GOD through JESUS, and thus, whatever that relationship is, it is eternal and can not be severed.

I disagree in part. You left out those who once were in Christ, but for some reason, decided in their heart that there is no God. This is a category of people that we are discussing, not how one ends up in salvation, but if salvation can be lost or rejected. Just because you do not believe there are those in this condition does not mean they are not out there. There is a difference between those who want to remain in Him and those who do not, and you refuse to believe that there are people like that. It is so easy to say that they were never saved in the first place, for it is easy to live with this idea. To believe that we still have free will (which I believe you do not believe in free will either) places our action in our own hands. God, nowhere in scripture, made anyone do anything against their own will. He did, does and will continue to judge people for their actions and beliefs of their heart.

No I did not leave that group out.

The interpretation of scripture that indicates "once having tasted and then turned away" is interpretted by those of one belief as being saved people who lost their salvation and the other group as those who had a religion and were around and felt the HOLY SPIRIT and the goodness of GOD but were never really saved.

The interpretation of these scriptures still comes from the same point of reference.

As far as your additional points, I believe in the will of man. Is that will free? That will is a product of the nature of the man. No-one does something against their nature unless their nature is changed by an outside influence. If, therefore, a man's nature is towards GOD, so his will reflects. If a man's nature is not towards GOD, then his will also will be so. A man in a Christian church may have just as much of a religion as a man in any other religion, with no relationship.

While you state that there are people in this catagory as if it is a perfect fact, you have no way of proving that statement to be a fact.

To say "GOD nowhere in scripture made anyone do anything against their will" is not true. A man once ate grass and became as an animal by GOD's hand against his will. Just one example.

But, you are correct, GOD doesn't make anyone do anything against their will. HE changes their will. HE influences their minds and touches their spirits and orchestrates situations that result in a person acting in their own will to do what HE would have them to do. If there is a time when a man's will is free, it is when GOD has set it free.

For I am convinced that neither depth nor height nor angel nor demon (nor the influences of them) can separated us from the love of GOD that we have in CHRIST JESUS. Only the influence of Satan could charm a person away from GOD and he is included in the list of things that can not separate us from that love.

[kross]

Shiloh i do agree that eternal security is promised to those who are truly saved, but it is not eternal security that is being challenged but the belief that just because a person makes a profession of faith that they are saved reguardless of their lifestyle and heart towards God.

Like I said, the litmus test of a person truly born again is that they have a new heart and have undergone an inward transformation. REAL Christians are not out living in sin. They are not looking for ways to sin.

The problem is that people in their zeal to disprove a myth called OSAS refuse to accept the fact that there are people (probably more than we are generally aware of) who simply assent to the Christian faith but have never received Christ. They are sitting in pews, singing choirs, teaching Sunday School, but do not know Christ. You can be VERY religious without Jesus. You can know all the right things to say and do, and you can participate in the outward Christian community and yet die and go to Hell.

It would go a long way in explaining the immorality we see in various denominations, even among those who are supposed to be leaders. I think we would be very shocked if we able just for 1 minute to see what God sees regarding who is or is not saved.

In that sense the label OSAS is misleading and more accuratley called OTSBNS Only Think Saved But Not Saved.

No, the label is misleading because it is not a true doctrine. OTSBNS is just another futile attempt at the same thing.

The problem is that carnal reasoning simply cannot truly accept that salvation is not based on our personal merit. Even now, despite the Bible's unambiguous teachings, human pride still wants to make salvation a reward that only the best deserve to receive.

Salvation is a free gift. That means that it is not based on what you do or don't do. Salvation is more than just that, though. Salvation is a person. Jesus is our eternal life, and He comes to live in us in the person of the Holy Spirit. He changes us and transforms us by the Holy Spirit. If that change has not taken place, salvation did not occur. I don't care how loud someone yells that they are saved, if they are living sin, they were most likely never saved to start with.

Yet Jesus threatens to "spue out of His mouth" the Laocediceans who had "left their first love, are you saying they were never saved in the first place or that Jesus was not warning them of losing their salvation?

It was the Church at Ephesus that left their first love.

I don't think Jesus was telling them either that they were not saved or that they were losing their salvation. Rather, He was warning them that they were disqualifying themselves for service. Jesus warned them that they had gotten too wrapped up in worldly affairs. Their works were lukewarm. It does not indicate that they were living in sin per se, but they were not living fully committed lives for Christ.

Jesus ends his criticisms of Laodecia by reminding them that He chastens those whom He loves Rev. 3:19. It was a rebuke, and not revocation of their salvation.

This is very well written and true

[OneLight]

I have been in many of these discussions. I think the dividing line comes at this one point;

There are those who believe they had to do something to get saved and to stay saved. They use the scriptures that exhort us to better works and persistance to say that these scriptures are warnings of consequences if we fail to do so.

There are those who feel they did nothing to get saved. That GOD chose them for salvation.They use the scriptures that tell us we are indwelt by the HOLY SPIRIT and seal untill the day of redemption, predestined by GOD to be conformed to the likeness of HIS son from the foundations of the Earth. Thus, we might stumble or fail, but GOD will never leave us and nothing can separate us from HIS love in JESUS.

So, the interpretation of the scriptures really comes from these diametrically opposed points of veiw;

Either I am the author and finisher of my faith, and as such I must do works and walk acording to that faith.

OR

I am saved by the power of the HOLY SPIRIT and though I may not walk perfectly in this world, my salvation is based in my relationship with GOD through JESUS, and thus, whatever that relationship is, it is eternal and can not be severed.

I disagree in part. You left out those who once were in Christ, but for some reason, decided in their heart that there is no God. This is a category of people that we are discussing, not how one ends up in salvation, but if salvation can be lost or rejected. Just because you do not believe there are those in this condition does not mean they are not out there. There is a difference between those who want to remain in Him and those who do not, and you refuse to believe that there are people like that. It is so easy to say that they were never saved in the first place, for it is easy to live with this idea. To believe that we still have free will (which I believe you do not believe in free will either) places our action in our own hands. God, nowhere in scripture, made anyone do anything against their own will. He did, does and will continue to judge people for their actions and beliefs of their heart.

No I did not leave that group out.

The interpretation of scripture that indicates "once having tasted and then turned away" is interpretted by those of one belief as being saved people who lost their salvation and the other group as those who had a religion and were around and felt the HOLY SPIRIT and the goodness of GOD but were never really saved.

The interpretation of these scriptures still comes from the same point of reference.

As far as your additional points, I believe in the will of man. Is that will free? That will is a product of the nature of the man. No-one does something against their nature unless their nature is changed by an outside influence. If, therefore, a man's nature is towards GOD, so his will reflects. If a man's nature is not towards GOD, then his will also will be so. A man in a Christian church may have just as much of a religion as a man in any other religion, with no relationship.

While you state that there are people in this catagory as if it is a perfect fact, you have no way of proving that statement to be a fact.

To say "GOD nowhere in scripture made anyone do anything against their will" is not true. A man once ate grass and became as an animal by GOD's hand against his will. Just one example.

But, you are correct, GOD doesn't make anyone do anything against their will. HE changes their will. HE influences their minds and touches their spirits and orchestrates situations that result in a person acting in their own will to do what HE would have them to do. If there is a time when a man's will is free, it is when GOD has set it free.

For I am convinced that neither depth nor height nor angel nor demon (nor the influences of them) can separated us from the love of GOD that we have in CHRIST JESUS. Only the influence of Satan could charm a person away from GOD and he is included in the list of things that can not separate us from that love.

Many scripture have been given to support that people can leave the will of God, on their own choice, yet, you say that it is God who changes their will, so in fact, you are saying that God has changed their heart so they will turn from God. That is a blatant lie. He gave His Son so that all will turn to Him.

Take the blinders off and search scripture. Those who wish to remain in Christ will never be removed. Those who do not, will remove themselves. Yes, they were saved at one time, for no one can be partakers of the Holy Spirit unless they are saved.

[kross]

I have been in many of these discussions. I think the dividing line comes at this one point;

There are those who believe they had to do something to get saved and to stay saved. They use the scriptures that exhort us to better works and persistance to say that these scriptures are warnings of consequences if we fail to do so.

There are those who feel they did nothing to get saved. That GOD chose them for salvation.They use the scriptures that tell us we are indwelt by the HOLY SPIRIT and seal untill the day of redemption, predestined by GOD to be conformed to the likeness of HIS son from the foundations of the Earth. Thus, we might stumble or fail, but GOD will never leave us and nothing can separate us from HIS love in JESUS.

So, the interpretation of the scriptures really comes from these diametrically opposed points of veiw;

Either I am the author and finisher of my faith, and as such I must do works and walk acording to that faith.

OR

I am saved by the power of the HOLY SPIRIT and though I may not walk perfectly in this world, my salvation is based in my relationship with GOD through JESUS, and thus, whatever that relationship is, it is eternal and can not be severed.

I disagree in part. You left out those who once were in Christ, but for some reason, decided in their heart that there is no God. This is a category of people that we are discussing, not how one ends up in salvation, but if salvation can be lost or rejected. Just because you do not believe there are those in this condition does not mean they are not out there. There is a difference between those who want to remain in Him and those who do not, and you refuse to believe that there are people like that. It is so easy to say that they were never saved in the first place, for it is easy to live with this idea. To believe that we still have free will (which I believe you do not believe in free will either) places our action in our own hands. God, nowhere in scripture, made anyone do anything against their own will. He did, does and will continue to judge people for their actions and beliefs of their heart.

No I did not leave that group out.

The interpretation of scripture that indicates "once having tasted and then turned away" is interpretted by those of one belief as being saved people who lost their salvation and the other group as those who had a religion and were around and felt the HOLY SPIRIT and the goodness of GOD but were never really saved.

The interpretation of these scriptures still comes from the same point of reference.

As far as your additional points, I believe in the will of man. Is that will free? That will is a product of the nature of the man. No-one does something against their nature unless their nature is changed by an outside influence. If, therefore, a man's nature is towards GOD, so his will reflects. If a man's nature is not towards GOD, then his will also will be so. A man in a Christian church may have just as much of a religion as a man in any other religion, with no relationship.

While you state that there are people in this catagory as if it is a perfect fact, you have no way of proving that statement to be a fact.

To say "GOD nowhere in scripture made anyone do anything against their will" is not true. A man once ate grass and became as an animal by GOD's hand against his will. Just one example.

But, you are correct, GOD doesn't make anyone do anything against their will. HE changes their will. HE influences their minds and touches their spirits and orchestrates situations that result in a person acting in their own will to do what HE would have them to do. If there is a time when a man's will is free, it is when GOD has set it free.

For I am convinced that neither depth nor height nor angel nor demon (nor the influences of them) can separated us from the love of GOD that we have in CHRIST JESUS. Only the influence of Satan could charm a person away from GOD and he is included in the list of things that can not separate us from that love.

Many scripture have been given to support that people can leave the will of God, on their own choice, yet, you say that it is God who changes their will, so in fact, you are saying that God has changed their heart so they will turn from God. That is a blatant lie. He gave His Son so that all will turn to Him.

Take the blinders off and search scripture. Those who wish to remain in Christ will never be removed. Those who do not, will remove themselves. Yes, they were saved at one time, for no one can be partakers of the Holy Spirit unless they are saved.

I do so enjoy the loving attitudes here. "Take the blinders off"? Really having to bite my tougue to keep from throwing those kind of things back.

That whole "nobody can partake of the HOLY SPIRIT unless they are saved" statement is one of those things that has no Biblical foundation. No body can be indwelt by the HOLY SPIRIT and not be saved, but a partaker? You are saying that the HOLY SPIRIT can't do anything good for an unsaved person? The goodness of GOD can not be felt by someone who is unsaved? Demons can't be cast out of an unsaved person? It is statements like this one that people hang their doctrines and theology on that have no real merit or foundation.

A nice twisting of what I said, by the way, or maybe just misunderstanding.

GOD changes the nature of a person and they get saved. HE will never change that back again, the HOLY SPIRIT will never leave a saved person, and that new nature will never change.

IF GOD doesn't change the nature of a man than that man will not be saved. He may spend time in church and enjoy the taste and touch of the SPIRIT around him. It may even influence him, as eveil spirits occassionally influence the saved, but he will at some point walk away when GOD doesn't meet his expectations or his sin nature simply makes church uncomfortable. You will know the saved because they will persevere to the end.

There is not one scripture that shows us a man who was indwelt by the HOLY SPIRIT loosing his salvation. There are scriptures that, by interpretation, infer that this is possible, but there is none that actually says it is possible or has ever happened.

There are many that say we are sealed for the day of redemption, clearly state it. There are those that state we are predestined to our calling and our conformation to the image of JESUS. Clearly state it There are scriptures that state that once we are in GOD's hand, nothing can remove us. Clearly state it.

As I have stated, all of which are interpretted based on the foundational belief stated above.

[Smalcald]

What does backsliding mean? I have heard it used by I think Parker earlier and by other Christians. We don't use that term and it is confusing to me.

I think Shiloh you would say a person who intentionally lives in sin who rejects the faith and does not even try to struggle against sin, was never saved in the first place regardless of what they may have said or prayed or whatever? Is this a person who has "backslid"?

Backsliding is an OT term. It is never used in the NT. The person you describe would not be backslidden, as they had nothing to be slide back from. The term "backsliding" refers to Jerusalem's impenitence in Jer. 8:5.

Okay.

[JIME]

Here is how I understand Salvation to work:

We are offered by God, through Jesus' death and resurrection, salvation as a free gift. It is up to us to accept this gift. Once we accept it, the Holy Spirit is given to us by God, to work in us Sanctification. We then live our life. While during our life we have choices to make, the Holy Spirit is there to guide us. We can choose to follow His guiding or not. When we choose not to and sin, we are convicted of this sin by the Holy Spirit. Our heart is pliable and broken, this conviction will turn to repentance. We ask for forgiveness, and the Lord Jesus forgives us. We are not perfected yet, so we will stumble. But we have an advocate with God who is Jesus.

Look at the Prodigals son. He was in his fathers house (saved if you will). He demanded his inheritance and sinned. He realized his sin. Came back to his father and asked for forgiveness. His father (God) forgave his sin and took him back into his house. He didn't loose his salvation. We are that prodigals son every time we sin and ask for forgiveness.

Heb 12:4-8 (NASB)

A Father's Discipline

4 You have not yet resisted to the point of shedding blood in your striving against sin;

5 and you have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons, "My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, Nor faint when you are reproved by Him;

6 For those whom the Lord loves He disciplines, And He scourges every son whom He receives."

7 It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline?

8 But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.

1 John 1:9 (NASB)

9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

I know that many people claim to be christian, but there is no change in their life. This is change that only the Holy Spirit can give and help to bring about if they have truly given their heart to the Lord. So, some people would say that they have lost their salvation, when truly there was not any salvation to start with.

Now, I agree that if you blatantly, after accepting Jesus and have tasted the fruits of the Holy Spirit, DENY Jesus without repenting, then you have lost your salvation.

Heb 6:4-6 (NASB)

4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,

5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,

6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

So, my conclusion is: You can choose to leave and deny Jesus of your own free will and condemn yourself if you want to, BUT WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT!!!!!

[Rick-Parker]

What does backsliding mean? I have heard it used by I think Parker earlier and by other Christians. We don't use that term and it is confusing to me.

I think Shiloh you would say a person who intentionally lives in sin who rejects the faith and does not even try to struggle against sin, was never saved in the first place regardless of what they may have said or prayed or whatever? Is this a person who has "backslid"?

Backsliding is an OT term. It is never used in the NT. The person you describe would not be backslidden, as they had nothing to be slide back from. The term "backsliding" refers to Jerusalem's impenitence in Jer. 8:5.

Okay.

Back sliding is a term used when a saved individual commits sins and does not repent of those sins at the time. That person, once they are done indulging in their mindless sin and repent, return to being justified. It's like the prodigal son. This is my opinion, of course, and I'm sure that there will be some who will disagree.

[OneLight]

I have been in many of these discussions. I think the dividing line comes at this one point;

There are those who believe they had to do something to get saved and to stay saved. They use the scriptures that exhort us to better works and persistance to say that these scriptures are warnings of consequences if we fail to do so.

There are those who feel they did nothing to get saved. That GOD chose them for salvation.They use the scriptures that tell us we are indwelt by the HOLY SPIRIT and seal untill the day of redemption, predestined by GOD to be conformed to the likeness of HIS son from the foundations of the Earth. Thus, we might stumble or fail, but GOD will never leave us and nothing can separate us from HIS love in JESUS.

So, the interpretation of the scriptures really comes from these diametrically opposed points of veiw;

Either I am the author and finisher of my faith, and as such I must do works and walk acording to that faith.

OR

I am saved by the power of the HOLY SPIRIT and though I may not walk perfectly in this world, my salvation is based in my relationship with GOD through JESUS, and thus, whatever that relationship is, it is eternal and can not be severed.

I disagree in part. You left out those who once were in Christ, but for some reason, decided in their heart that there is no God. This is a category of people that we are discussing, not how one ends up in salvation, but if salvation can be lost or rejected. Just because you do not believe there are those in this condition does not mean they are not out there. There is a difference between those who want to remain in Him and those who do not, and you refuse to believe that there are people like that. It is so easy to say that they were never saved in the first place, for it is easy to live with this idea. To believe that we still have free will (which I believe you do not believe in free will either) places our action in our own hands. God, nowhere in scripture, made anyone do anything against their own will. He did, does and will continue to judge people for their actions and beliefs of their heart.

No I did not leave that group out.

The interpretation of scripture that indicates "once having tasted and then turned away" is interpretted by those of one belief as being saved people who lost their salvation and the other group as those who had a religion and were around and felt the HOLY SPIRIT and the goodness of GOD but were never really saved.

The interpretation of these scriptures still comes from the same point of reference.

As far as your additional points, I believe in the will of man. Is that will free? That will is a product of the nature of the man. No-one does something against their nature unless their nature is changed by an outside influence. If, therefore, a man's nature is towards GOD, so his will reflects. If a man's nature is not towards GOD, then his will also will be so. A man in a Christian church may have just as much of a religion as a man in any other religion, with no relationship.

While you state that there are people in this catagory as if it is a perfect fact, you have no way of proving that statement to be a fact.

To say "GOD nowhere in scripture made anyone do anything against their will" is not true. A man once ate grass and became as an animal by GOD's hand against his will. Just one example.

But, you are correct, GOD doesn't make anyone do anything against their will. HE changes their will. HE influences their minds and touches their spirits and orchestrates situations that result in a person acting in their own will to do what HE would have them to do. If there is a time when a man's will is free, it is when GOD has set it free.

For I am convinced that neither depth nor height nor angel nor demon (nor the influences of them) can separated us from the love of GOD that we have in CHRIST JESUS. Only the influence of Satan could charm a person away from GOD and he is included in the list of things that can not separate us from that love.

Many scripture have been given to support that people can leave the will of God, on their own choice, yet, you say that it is God who changes their will, so in fact, you are saying that God has changed their heart so they will turn from God. That is a blatant lie. He gave His Son so that all will turn to Him.

Take the blinders off and search scripture. Those who wish to remain in Christ will never be removed. Those who do not, will remove themselves. Yes, they were saved at one time, for no one can be partakers of the Holy Spirit unless they are saved.

I do so enjoy the loving attitudes here. "Take the blinders off"? Really having to bite my tougue to keep from throwing those kind of things back.

You are right, I should of said that in a more polite way, like you need to reconsider how you place your theology together in a more biblical way, not neglecting parts of scripture you do not agree with. Sorry for the temper.

That whole "nobody can partake of the HOLY SPIRIT unless they are saved" statement is one of those things that has no Biblical foundation. No body can be indwelt by the HOLY SPIRIT and not be saved, but a partaker? You are saying that the HOLY SPIRIT can't do anything good for an unsaved person? The goodness of GOD can not be felt by someone who is unsaved? Demons can't be cast out of an unsaved person? It is statements like this one that people hang their doctrines and theology on that have no real merit or foundation.

That is funny. It is in scripture and reads as follows.

Hebrews 6:4-6

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away,[a] to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Being a partaker is more then conviction. Look it up.

A nice twisting of what I said, by the way, or maybe just misunderstanding.

How can i misunderstand what you posted?

HE changes their will.

Again, if you really believe that God changes the will of someone and that they are not responsible for their own actions, there is no other way to see what you posted.

GOD changes the nature of a person and they get saved. HE will never change that back again, the HOLY SPIRIT will never leave a saved person, and that new nature will never change.

IF GOD doesn't change the nature of a man than that man will not be saved. He may spend time in church and enjoy the taste and touch of the SPIRIT around him. It may even influence him, as eveil spirits occassionally influence the saved, but he will at some point walk away when GOD doesn't meet his expectations or his sin nature simply makes church uncomfortable. You will know the saved because they will persevere to the end.

There is not one scripture that shows us a man who was indwelt by the HOLY SPIRIT loosing his salvation. There are scriptures that, by interpretation, infer that this is possible, but there is none that actually says it is possible or has ever happened.

There are many that say we are sealed for the day of redemption, clearly state it. There are those that state we are predestined to our calling and our conformation to the image of JESUS. Clearly state it There are scriptures that state that once we are in GOD's hand, nothing can remove us. Clearly state it.

As I have stated, all of which are interpretted based on the foundational belief stated above.

Again, look through this thread and you will see the scripture that refutes your belief. Like I said before, it is so easy to believe that when someone turns their back on Christ, that they were never saved in the first place. It removes the responsibilities of our own decisions and actions.

[leoxiii]

The question now becomes: "By what means does a Christian know they are truly among the Elect (a.k.a. Predestined)?"

You seem to think that nobody this side of Heaven can know if they are saved or not, unless, as you stated above, you get a "direct personal (private) revelation from heaven". Here is scripture refuting your thoughts.

1 John 5:11-13

And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.

He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

John 3:36

"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

1 John 2:25

This is the promise which He Himself made to us: eternal life.

Amen!

RCCism teaches that salvation cannot be assured until after death. The Bible says we can know today, right now that we are saved. God has provided us with a know-so salvation.

And yet the Bible also says that someone can walk away from that very salvation. In which case, they had eternal life, but no longer have it. They knew they had eternal life, but they surrendered it up for a mess of pottage.

Therefore, they were never among the Elect.

They knew they had eternal life, but because they forfeited that eternal life, they are not, nor never were among the Elect.

One cannot argue both "A" and "not-A". If knowing one has eternal life is equal to knowing one is among the Elect, then one can know right now they are among the Elect, and, if they are among the Elect, then no matter what they do, they can never lose that Election. Indeed, they cannot walk away from it at all.

Therefore, I make the necessary distinction between "knowing you have eternal life" and "being among the Elect".

I have the certainty of faith that God is immutable, and if God has predestined someone from before the foundation of the world ("among the Elect") then that will stand no matter what. But I also have the certainty of faith that God cannot predestine an obstinate and unrepentant sinner to be among the Elect. He predestines us according to His foreknowledge. He knows that in the end the ones who are among the Elect will be the ones who turned from their sins and persevered to the end in His grace. Unfortunately, we earth-bound humans do not have such omniscience.

Therefore, while we may know we have eternal life at any given moment, we do not have the knowledge (unless it is divinely revealed to us personally) that we are among the Elect.