can salvation be lost?

[Guest shiloh357]

QUOTE (shiloh357 @ Nov 17 2009, 10:19 AM)

It's so simple a first grader can understand. Jesus commanded us to be baptized (Matt. 28:19-20) To refuse Baptism would be disoedience. Honestly, the logic is not that hard.

He actually commanded them not you. Although it seems that salvation required baptism in those verses (because it does seem that way) it was NEVER the ritual that saved you. It was doing it in the name of the "Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" that was the sealing. Oh the blasphamy it would have been. You're just stuck on the ritual. That's fine.

I don't' know what Bible you're reading, but the commandment to be baptized was given to the church. It is one two ordinances that Jesus gave to the church. It has nothing to do with salvation, but it is still commanded and those who don't obey are disobedient.

QUOTE (shiloh357 @ Nov 17 2009, 10:19 AM)

healing is not a commandment. Jesus did not command us to go heal.It actually was in Mark 16 (to the end).

No, what Jesus said was that it was a sign that would follow those who believe. There was no "commandment" to heal.

I did notice that you moved away from Mark 16:16 and jumped to Matt 28. Same incident different author. One had more detail than the other. You just got away from the details to prove your "point." Christ did "command" them to heal the sick by saying they "confirmed his word by the signs (Mark 16:20)" which were "healing" after being "baptized. Go read it. You can tap dance around that.

You obviously don't know how to tell the difference between a commandment and a sign gift.

There was no commandment to heal.

Are you calling yourself equipped after I just corrected your flawed points?

you didn't correct anything. All you proved is that you don't know how discern what a commandment is.

[exrockstar]

I don't' know what Bible you're reading, but the commandment to be baptized was given to the church. It is one two ordinances that Jesus gave to the church. It has nothing to do with salvation, but it is still commanded and those who don't obey are disobedient.

You take it one way and I take it another.

we disagree. let's leave it at that.

[Shiloh62]

I have alwyas believed that salvation could not be lost and i have seen great scripture supporting both that it can and cannot be lost.

what do others think and what scripture leads you to think this?

no

[lekh l'kha]

I have alwyas believed that salvation could not be lost and i have seen great scripture supporting both that it can and cannot be lost.

what do others think and what scripture leads you to think this?

this is a very interesting thread and I haven't been following it, but I've just read the first five pages.

I don't know if anyone else has said this yet, but I think that (presuming) it were possible for someone to lose his salvation, then questions like this wouldn't bother the person whose lost his/her salvation.

Salvation is through faith in Jesus Christ who lived a perfect, sinless life on our behalf and died once-for-all for our sins and rose from the dead, and is seated on God's throne, and is now our mediator and advocate.

If salvation is through faith in Jesus Christ, then if someone can lose his salvation, losing his salvation must include simply not believing anymore, and these questions wouldn't worry such a person anymore.

** Added by edit ***

I firmly believe that faith in Jesus Christ is God-given, and therefore for someone to lose his faith in Jesus, he must make a conscious choice to turn away from Him.

[Saved_by_Jesus]

but backsliding and forfeiting salvation are two very different things.

oops, i said i wasn't gonna get involved further in this discussion.... someone give me a swift kick in the booty and get me out of here!

How in the world do you say they are two different things?

As I recall, we study in the word of God to stay connected and have a relationship with God, so if we lose our "salvation" or "christians backslide"--its the same, they both deal with staying connected with God.

desi

Backsliding I think is different than "forfeiting salvation" because look at the difference between the story of the Prodigal son, and Jacob and Esau. The Prodigal son backslid, had his fun, and then felt true remorse and wanted to come back.....just like a person who has backslid may do. But a person who "forfeits" is like Esau maybe-they specifically denied it and denounced it-maybe like deciding that Jesus is not the Son of God or something, or turning to Judaism, Buddism, or whatever other religion. Isn't backsliding getting caught up in the world, yet still believing? Forfeiting would be totally denouncing Christ I think.

[Scare Bear]

My preacher just touched on this subject Sunday night I believe... I'll have to get out my notes. I'll have to get back to this when it's not so late! I've got to get in the bed! So g'night all and God bless!

[Scare Bear]

1 Corinthians 9:24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. 25 And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown. 26 Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air. 27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.

1 Corinthians 10:12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall. 13 No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.

2 Peter 1:10Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

Hebrews 3:12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;

Galatians 5:4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

Hebrews 12:15 looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled;

2 Peter 2:20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb:

[Guest shiloh357]

I hope these passages help!

Help with what?

[Scare Bear]

Help with what?

The topic at hand. The topic is "Can salvation be lost?" and the scriptures point out that it very well can.

[Ovedya]

Does anyone believe that there possibly could be a dispensational punishment for those believers who are disobedient - that is any other type of punishment other than the lake of fire?

Second, in the story of the Prodigal, was there ever any point at which the son became genetically disassociated from his father, despite his fall to sin?