Questions for people who say Christians can't accept evolution

[kross]

This claim that Christianity and evolution can not co-exist has been repeated by essentially every creationist on here, most recently by shiloh357 - http://www.worthychristianforums.com/darwi...87#entry1450587 - so that is who this is mainly directed at, although it applies to everyone else who makes the same assertions.

When Christians become trained in the sciences and then encounter what they consider to be compelling evidence for evolution, what do you think they should do? From what you are saying, the only option is for them to renounce their belief in Christianity and become non-believers. Is that what you would want them to do rather than becoming theistic evolutionists? Are they not allowed to share what they have learned as scientists with their fellow Christians? At what point does the evidence from natural revelation reach a level where it has to be seriously considered? How do you know that it is not your interpretation of the Bible that is flawed? Even if you disagree with scientists, have you read evangelical theologians and scholars who disagree with you; John Walton, Denis Lamoureux (he is both a scientist and a theologian), or Bruce Waltke?

You know what, Hal? Christianity follows science at a respectable distance.

Most people now accept that the world is not flat, that the sun is the center of the universe, etc. (even though these are all 'theories', in the same way that evolution is).

So, given some time, Christians will accept evolution as given.

I give it 50 years (much shorter than it took for the solar system model to be accepted).

Hopefully, we can just hasten the inevitable.

This is a wrong statement all the way around. It is science/people who determined the Earth to be flat, even while the Bible states it is round. Men taught that the Earth was the center of the universe, even thought the Bible tells us that GOD sits above and watches it in it's "circles". Theories abounded about how the Earth was supported in the heaven 1,000 years after the Bible recorded it was suspended in the heavens by nothing. Science/men have always put forth beliefs that eventually are disproved by people like Columbus who believed what the Bible said over what the prevailing thought of the day was.

Evolutionary science has failed to offer compelling evidence, other than giving a particular slant to the interpretation of data and evidence. While there may be evidence of some inter-species alterations, that is a far cry from the tripe being taught in our schools. If it were a pure science and just the facts were presented, then it wouldn't stand on it's own merit. One must first believe in it and then interpret the evidence to fit that belief. (which works both ways)

Is it possible GOD uses evolutionary type processes to adapt HIS created animals to their environment? Sure it is. Is it possible that evolution can account for the variety and complexity of creation? Not just NO but HECK NO.

[kross]

I've seen unhappy closet homosexuals. But the ones who come out are much happier. They're free to be themselves. You have no right and are in no position to say that their happiness is a facade. Leave them be. It would be a wonderful world if no one judged anyone, but you claim scripture to do just that.

And yet...you don't hesitate to judge Christians, do you? I might point out that YOU have no right to say, nor are you in a position to do so, that Christians brainwash children and yet....you say it often. Such hypocrisy you've got going there, Christopher.

Except that you don't deny you use scare tactics to make children believe. So I can judge because you don't even deny it. Children are not molds to warp and manipulate into a belief system (or propagate one. "Jesus Camp" comes to mind on this one). They should be left to their own devices, free to make up their own mind without nightmares of a lake of fire.

This is obviosly not the statement of a Christian. Because this is obviously not the statement of someone who understands love.

[MorningGlory]

I work in a very low-income elementary school where even though over 70% of families are on disability or welfare, and so are ostensibly free to be with their children more than working parents, we have unbelievably low parent-involvement in anything education related. All this to say I reaaallly don't think that leaving children "to their own devices" is a very good strategy for raising children as many of the kids who come from my classroom are pretty much "left to their own devices" and it doesn't seem to have helped them out very much.

Lurker

Very true, Lurker. Successful adults tend to be those whose parents were 'hands on' while they were growing up. Too many parents expect schools or someone else to raise their kids. It's a road map to failure and then these parents' failures are dumped on society when they grow up. You'll find them in any prison in the country.

[ForwardFromEden]

I've seen unhappy closet homosexuals. But the ones who come out are much happier. They're free to be themselves. You have no right and are in no position to say that their happiness is a facade. Leave them be. It would be a wonderful world if no one judged anyone, but you claim scripture to do just that.

And yet...you don't hesitate to judge Christians, do you? I might point out that YOU have no right to say, nor are you in a position to do so, that Christians brainwash children and yet....you say it often. Such hypocrisy you've got going there, Christopher.

Except that you don't deny you use scare tactics to make children believe. So I can judge because you don't even deny it. Children are not molds to warp and manipulate into a belief system (or propagate one. "Jesus Camp" comes to mind on this one). They should be left to their own devices, free to make up their own mind without nightmares of a lake of fire.

It is a parents duty to help their children form a world view within which to live their lives. A parent who does not do so is negligent of their duty to the child.

Once again I see you accuse others of doing something there is no evidence of their having done. Is this not a form of scare tactic? It would seem so. I don't know why others here allow you do proclaim to them what "they" think. How is it you know what they think in their deepest thoughts? Scaring children into doing what? I have never found it necessary to scare children into belief in Jesus, most children will sit in rapt attention as you tell them stories of Christ and his love for them most of all.

[Guest shiloh357]

I've seen unhappy closet homosexuals. But the ones who come out are much happier. They're free to be themselves. You have no right and are in no position to say that their happiness is a facade. Leave them be. It would be a wonderful world if no one judged anyone, but you claim scripture to do just that.

And yet...you don't hesitate to judge Christians, do you? I might point out that YOU have no right to say, nor are you in a position to do so, that Christians brainwash children and yet....you say it often. Such hypocrisy you've got going there, Christopher.

Except that you don't deny you use scare tactics to make children believe. So I can judge because you don't even deny it. Children are not molds to warp and manipulate into a belief system (or propagate one. "Jesus Camp" comes to mind on this one). They should be left to their own devices, free to make up their own mind without nightmares of a lake of fire.

But that argument cuts both ways. We could easily say that you "brainwash" children and use questionable tactics to raise your children as well. So the truth is that you hypocritically judge us for what we believe while castigating us about "judging" others simply because our values and beliefs are different than your own.

You condemn others for the very thing you justify in yourself. You are a classic, textbook hypocrite.

[Rick-Parker]

I've seen unhappy closet homosexuals. But the ones who come out are much happier. They're free to be themselves. You have no right and are in no position to say that their happiness is a facade. Leave them be. It would be a wonderful world if no one judged anyone, but you claim scripture to do just that.

And yet...you don't hesitate to judge Christians, do you? I might point out that YOU have no right to say, nor are you in a position to do so, that Christians brainwash children and yet....you say it often. Such hypocrisy you've got going there, Christopher.

Except that you don't deny you use scare tactics to make children believe. So I can judge because you don't even deny it. Children are not molds to warp and manipulate into a belief system (or propagate one. "Jesus Camp" comes to mind on this one). They should be left to their own devices, free to make up their own mind without nightmares of a lake of fire.

Ah, but that is what teachers do every day in the public schools, manipulate children into a belief system of evolution. Look in the mirror, son.

[ForwardFromEden]

You condemn others for the very thing you justify in yourself. You are a classic, textbook hypocrite.

As an unabridged Webster would have it.

[Fez]

I have had enough of this.

A truly saved Christian is going to heaven. An atheist is going to hell. And no theory will matter in the long run. Scare tactics and brain washing? I don't think so, it's just the only truth we need to know.

[MorningGlory]

I have had enough of this.

A truly saved Christian is going to heaven. An atheist is going to hell. And no theory will matter in the long run. Scare tactics and brain washing? I don't think so, it's just the only truth we need to know.

The claim of 'scare tactics' is just another made by satan through those who follow him.....and, you're right, it will change nothing in the end.

[ForwardFromEden]

I have had enough of this.

A truly saved Christian is going to heaven. An atheist is going to hell. And no theory will matter in the long run. Scare tactics and brain washing? I don't think so, it's just the only truth we need to know.

Very true.