out of context...

July 21, 2004

Paul is speaking only to jews in that verse. He is not in any way saying that gentiles become "true jews"

Rom 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

That sure sounds like all of the saints, jew and gentile, to me.

That is a different verse. Oy...do I have to spoon feed you guys?

Romans is written by Paul to the church at Rome because there is a schism developing between the jews and the gentiles. The first few chapters are written to the jews about the gentiles...then there is some generally theology before getting to chapters 9, 10, & 11 which is written to the gentiles concerning the jews.

If you say that Romans 2:28-29 make you a jew, then you are ignoring the context of the verses preceding AND after. (WHICH PROVES BOTZ POINT IN THAT OTHER THREAD)

Were gentiles given the covenant of circumcision? Were the gentiles entrusted with the writing of the oracles of God? See Romans 3:1.....the very next verse.

If you still don't get it, then please read the link I supplied in my last post so I don't have to type it all out again.

And yes, in Christ their is no favoritism of position but there are different roles. I assume you are either male or female, right?

And what "role" does a jewish believer have that a gentile believer does not?

Read Romans with that question in mind.

July 21, 2004

Dear idied2...Jesus chastized His fellow Jews, Pharisees,Scribes,Lawyers and guys who were meant to set an example to the rest of the people in very strong terms because they needed to be blasted out of their state of hypocrisy and pride.

Dear botz

If you will notice. Most of the scripture I quoted was John the babtist. Now I ask you . What has changed?

In CHRIST JESUS :hug: :hug: :hug:

angels4u · July 21, 2004

Um...I don;t think they were Jewish. I'm almost certain that began with Abraham.

Thats actually interesting, what were they?

OK I cook! :t2:

Angels

July 21, 2004

Paul is speaking only to jews in that verse. He is not in any way saying that gentiles become "true jews"

So. In the resurection the blood line jews and grafted in jews will have different kinds of bodys??????

In CHRIST JESUS :hug: :hug: :hug:

July 21, 2004

o. In the resurection the blood line jews and grafted in jews will have different kinds of bodys??????

what is a "grafted in" jew?

Someone is either a jew or they are not. The Covenant of Circumcision is how you tell.

Only those jews who have also circumcised their hearts will be in the Kingdom come....along with all the nations who have also circumcised their hearts.

nebula · July 21, 2004

And, since you are now in Christ, why do you cling to your earthly lineage with such fervor?

Did you give up your ethnic heritage when you became a Christian? Did you give up your "earthly" identity when you became a Christian?

Change your last name? Change your ethnicity? Change your bloodline? Anything like that?

What's with picking on the Jews like that?

One Way · July 21, 2004

And, since you are now in Christ, why do you cling to your earthly lineage with such fervor?

Did you give up your ethnic heritage when you became a Christian? Did you give up your "earthly" identity when you became a Christian?

Change your last name? Change your ethnicity? Change your bloodline? Anything like that?

What's with picking on the Jews like that?

I'm not picking on anyone. If you read the thread you will see that I am simply responding to the prodding questions.

One Way · July 21, 2004

Why would that offend me? The Bible does say that. This is not the same thing as being a jew though. That speaks of the physical seed of Abraham.

Okay, help me understand here.

You at least affirm the Bible calls all believers "the seed of Abraham."

Am I the physical seed of Abraham? No. What does that mean? It means spiritually I am the seed of Abraham.

Was Abraham a Jew? He was the first Jew. But, do you know that Abram, the first Jew, was an idol-worshipping gentile (before there was a differentiation) from the Ur of the Chaldees? Just something I thought you would find interesting.

Okay, so Abraham was a Jew. If I were his physical seed I would be a earthly Jew, would I not?

So, since I am his spiritual seed, why is it that I am not a spiritual Jew?

Your reasoning breaks down. The bible says that cirumcision and Israel (meaning literally: Governed by God, which believers are) is "in spirit."

I just wanted to answer your response with my understanding and reasoning. I by not means want to get into a "is not, is too" argument. Believe what you want. I know what my Bible says.

I don't wish I was an earthly Jew, for most of them have been blinded due to their rejection. This isn't a camp I want to be in.

I praise God that He put me just where He did in His plan to redeem mankind.

Anyways, I can see where this is going, so I'll let my explanation be my final word. Although, I'll gladly listen to your biblical explanation as to what I just said was wrong.

Blessings...

nebula · July 21, 2004

I'm not picking on anyone. If you read the thread you will see that I am simply responding to the prodding questions.

I know you are responding to the questions . . . it's what you are responding with that I am questioning.

Why should the Jews give up their heritage when they become Christians?

July 21, 2004

what is a "grafted in" jew?

This is a grafted in jew.

Romans 11:

17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree,

18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.

19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in."

20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.

21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.

22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness

1Co 12:13

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

In CHRIST JESUS :hug: :hug: :hug: