Why modern evalngelism is not evangelism

[Guest]

I'm sorry, I don't "get" the come back about Finney...I thought what JCISGD posted was very interesting and the video too

[ellarose]

I'm sorry, I don't "get" the come back about Finney...I thought what JCISGD posted was very interesting and the video too

Don't worry Somer, I don't get a lot of the things that people write on these forums, that included!

[JCISGD]

God forbid that anyone would stray from the path of Finney!

Touchee! but I think you miss the point, Ray Comfort states that he saw his error by reading Finney, but what i am saying is he has taken only half of the recipe. He has the methodology without the other half of waiting for Power from the Holy Spirit, and they neglect to stress this in their teaching of others.

I admire and respect Ray Comfort he is certainly doing better and more than me. Along with Kirk Cameron of the "Left behind" series he and others head up "The Way of the Master" teaching on evangelism.

I would challenge you to ask the Holy Spirit about what i say next, "preaching without the Holy Spirits power can harden hearts rather than soften or convert them". Also " it is wrong to assume the Holy Spirit has annointed us for service just because we are born again". ( Quotations mine.)

[Guest yod]

, "preaching without the Holy Spirits power can harden hearts rather than soften or convert them". ( Quotations mine.)

Preaching with the Holy Spirit's power will do the same thing only more thoroughly. According to Yeshua, the entire point of the Holy Spirit is to convict men of sin. Men still have the option of receiving that conviction or rejecting it, thus hardening their hearts is often caused by confrontation of the Holy Spirit.

" it is wrong to assume the Holy Spirit has annointed us for service just because we are born again"

I disagree. It's a matter of how you define "service", I suppose...

We all have a part to play in the Body

[Guest yod]

I'm sorry, I don't "get" the come back about Finney...I thought what JCISGD posted was very interesting and the video too

It was a reference to how often JCISGD mentions Finney.

[JCISGD]

, "preaching without the Holy Spirits power can harden hearts rather than soften or convert them". ( Quotations mine.)

Preaching with the Holy Spirit's power will do the same thing only more thoroughly. According to Yeshua, the entire point of the Holy Spirit is to convict men of sin. Men still have the option of receiving that conviction or rejecting it, thus hardening their hearts is often caused by confrontation of the Holy Spirit.

" it is wrong to assume the Holy Spirit has annointed us for service just because we are born again"

I disagree. It's a matter of how you define "service", I suppose...

We all have a part to play in the Body

Hi Yod i agree fully that is the role of the Holy Spirit, that was my point. I wasnt saying we should go without the Holy Spirit but that we must, and that it is wrong to assume the Holy Sprit is with us. We follow Him not the other wat around. If we go without the Holy Spirit to do the convicting of sin, then hearts can be hardened and lost, rather than softened and saved.

I agree we all have a part to play, what i disagree with is sending people out with the 10 commandments to try win souls without first being empowered with "Power from on high".

I hear much talk today that we are empowered automatically at our salvation, but this is not the testimony of great soul winners. Without exception they all say their years of effort were largley unfruitful untill the point they came to the end of themselves and were baptised with "Power from on high".

If you want proof other than Finney lol, I urge all to read the book "They found the secret" by Ray Edman. It is the testimonies of great soul winners of different bachgrounds, denominations, gender and era, who all except Finney were empowered by the Holy Spirit many years after their salvation, and not before they had exhausted themselves doing it the way we are told today.

They all testify that just like the Apostles at Pentecost, who waited (as we are commanded to by Christ) until they recieved this baptism, that they saw more souls saved in the following weeks than in all the years the had struggled in previously.

But I have posted this before, "let him who has ears hear"

[Guest]

.... God loves His Word to be preached... It doesn't return void! It's either used to save or condemn ....

Old

The Lord GOD hath given me the tongue of the learned, that I should know how to speak a word in season to him that is weary: he wakeneth morning by morning, he wakeneth mine ear to hear as the learned.

Isaiah 50:4

Or New

Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

2 Timothy 4:2

God's Word

So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Isaiah 55:11

Will Change A Fellow

Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts.

Jeremiah 15:16

Or Not

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

John 12:48

[Miss Elly]

I'm sorry, I don't "get" the come back about Finney...I thought what JCISGD posted was very interesting and the video too

I agree. As for Finney he has won many more souls for the Lord than I have. I would not dare criticize such a man of God, perfect or not.

[JCISGD]

I'm sorry, I don't "get" the come back about Finney...I thought what JCISGD posted was very interesting and the video too

I agree. As for Finney he has won many more souls for the Lord than I have. I would not dare criticize such a man of God, perfect or not.

Hi Miss Elly you are the first person to get it! If someone is winning souls and we are not, would it not be better to learn off them as the LORD leads of course.

The bible says "he who wins souls is wise",that makes me abit of a fool so far. Some think its ok just to sow seeds, but no farmer/worker sows without expecting a return.

Some want God alone to teach them, but would God give us special revelation of things that someone under God has recorded for us to save reinventing the wheel?

Why I quote Finney is because I can not fault his theology or life. It is fact that roughly 80% of converts under his preaching stayed true, while some other great preachers produced only 20%. This is a direct relation between the amount of truth the Holy Spirit was able use from the preachers words to bring conviction of sin to the inquiring mind.

[Guest yod]

If you want proof other than Finney lol, I urge all to read the book "They found the secret" by Ray Edman. It is the testimonies of great soul winners of different bachgrounds, denominations, gender and era, who all except Finney were empowered by the Holy Spirit many years after their salvation, and not before they had exhausted themselves doing it the way we are told today.

and this is why all the Finney references seem obsessive to me.

I don't need anything but the biblical narrative. No other book has authority.

What you call "Power from on high" I call focus for the purpose. When someone, ANYONE, stays focused on the Word of God and prayer....they have "power from on high" to complete whatever task the Lord wants of them. Not all are called to be evangelists though all have to be ready to give an answer for the hope within them. Charles Finney had "holy spirit" support from ordinary people who cooked his breakfast, washed his clothes, or carried his books for him. His position is no higher in the kingdom than the lowliest servant who helped him.

And his books are still far below the bar of the scriptures, though they may be wonderful insights to how the Lord was using him for his time.