Shooting at Fort Hood

[ted]

I still think there is a little bit of confusion concerning who or what I had objections to. Shiloh (as well as others) and I are so close in agreement in our views that maybe my initial objection seemed like it was magnified a bit.

My initial objection was to the posts made by some members which advocated some of the things Axx pointed out in his last post, and that's pretty much it. The comments were made, and that's all I was pointing out, really. Although I am guilty of over using illustrations at times, that was the gist of it.

I fully understand the importance of this fight we are in. Like I mentioned it prior to this, I've been involved with it for a number of years now. Even after my recent retirement, the fight has to go on for me in other ways including vigilance, preparation, and observance. The delicate line we walk when we defend against such hate and tragedy is something I want to pay attention to also.

The delicate line between continued liberty and an increased reliance on government protection methods is something I watched closely as they progressed with the Bush Administration, and continue to watch now that a new President has taken office. There are things I agreed with under Bush, as well as things I disagreed with. Bush was my Commander in Chief and I tried to keep my thoughts within legal and moral bounds during that time period. As well, Obama was also my Commander in Chief and I tried to give him the same legal and moral respect.

Now that the uniform is tucked away in the attic, I can be a little more free with my words. Hey, I earned it.

While protecting our country, we must also be careful not to tread too heavily on the freedoms we are entitled to by our Creator, and married to with our Constitution. Surely there are temporary measures we have to take during times such as these to ensure we are providing the best possible protection for our citizens. On the other hand, going overboard with these measures and setting it up so they can be abused permanently by future leaders is something we have to be watchful of.

Along with that, we have to be ever so careful to attend to our own thinking as it pertains to other citizens. Knowing......yes knowing that all muslims are not a threat to us, nor do they support the seemingly large majority of muslims who do wish to attack us in anyway possible, we have to remain somewhat clear headed when we talk about such things. Blanket statements (and I understand that most people here have not made these statements, just a select few) such as "ship them all out of the country" are things we have to be very careful of.

Why?

For one, thing some time in the future our very own group (take your pick here- Christian, ethnic, male, female, Italian, Jewish, Mexican, House Painters, whatever) may just be accused of horrendous things and be swept up in a frenzy. Yes, I know it's unlikely, but it does remain possible. This is not to say that we shouldn't consider specific measures to protect ourselves from any group which may launch attacks against us. This is only to say that we have to be careful when we set up the measures which makes it possible for something we created to protect us, from one day turning against us.

These are not straw men arguments to make me look cool. They are illustations designed to make people think about how we can best protect our citizens, AND preserve our freedoms at the same time. It is quite possibly the most important point I want to make here: If we do not consider both protection and freedom in every measure we enact, we not only risk the failure of such protection, but we also run the risk of losing some of the freedoms that are the foundations of our existence.

I place equal amounts of importance on both freedom and protection. LIke on a scale, both should be measured to keep a balance. When one gets too heavy, the other naturally suffers. The trick, my dear friends, is to create a system of temporary measures to add or subtract from both so that one does not dominate on a permanent basis. We have to create a system so that we can add protection as needed, and then retain the ability to subtract again after the threat is removed.

There will be a day when the threat of muslim aggression is removed and reduced to the point where it does not present a wide danger as it does today. I have to believe that. If I didn't think it was a valid goal, I wouldn't have spent so much time working against it. Just as the German threat, the Roman threat, The Russian threat, and so many other threats throughout history have been defeated, muslim extremism will also one day be defeated. It's something we have to be convinced of, and have to hold onto.

Now, although it's probably the last thing people want to hear these days, and something which will cause many to deride me with, I have to say that these freedoms must be applied evenly to all Americans, to include those who are muslim. I think it's essential to the longevity of our country. We have to extend freedoms to all of our citizens, plain and simple.

Don't get me wrong on this. I'm not saying we have to tie the hands of law enforcement and shy away from people who should be watched and investigated in any way. I'm not saying that we should turn a blind eye toward a specific group out of political considerations or correctness. I could care less about political correctness when it comes to protecting our country. If we have leads, let's explore them. If we have valid suspicions, let's follow up on them. And by all means, if someone is suspected of having ties with terrorists groups, let's take him or her or them down before something happens. I'll even take it one step further and say let's strip the rights of those who operate against our country. I believe if you want to attack us and cause us harm, you don't deserve these freedoms anyway, and should give up all protections under the law you previously enjoyed. Don't like being American? Fine, here's your chance to not be one anymore.

I turn to Israel, and some of the protections it has enacted over the years, as just one model we should look toward. This tiny nation is surrounded by countries and peoples that hate them, and have on several occasions, attacked it in the hopes of wiping it out entirely. Israel has enacted many measures to provide the best possible protection for it's citizens it can. Although we are not surrounded on all sides by muslim nations who want to wipe us out, we still face a very real threat. Not only should we be looking at how other nations protect themselves, but we should always be looking for organic ideas as well. I'm not saying we have to resort to some of the same measures Israel does, but perhaps we should take some of the things that do work and use them and also be watchful so that those measures do not trample needlessly on most of the freedoms we (all of us) enjoy. Sadly, there is no easy answer.

Again, there is a fine line between freedom and protection. We have to come up with a valid system that not only provides protection, but also preserves the rights of all innocent Americans. There is great danger in causing one side of the scale to tip too far in either direction. Great fear indeed.

Peace homies,

t.

[MorningGlory]

I turn to Israel, and some of the protections it has enacted over the years, as just one model we should look toward. This tiny nation is surrounded by countries and peoples that hate them, and have on several occasions, attacked it in the hopes of wiping it out entirely. Israel has enacted many measures to provide the best possible protection for it's citizens it can. Although we are not surrounded on all sides by muslim nations who want to wipe us out, we still face a very real threat. Not only should we be looking at how other nations protect themselves, but we should always be looking for organic ideas as well. I'm not saying we have to resort to some of the same measures Israel does, but perhaps we should take some of the things that do work and use them and also be watchful so that those measures do not trample needlessly on most of the freedoms we (all of us) enjoy. Sadly, there is no easy answer.

Again, there is a fine line between freedom and protection. We have to come up with a valid system that not only provides protection, but also preserves the rights of all innocent Americans. There is great danger in causing one side of the scale to tip too far in either direction. Great fear indeed.

Peace homies,

t.

That makes a lot of sense, ted. The Israelis are masters of defense (and offense, if need be) and we can learn a lot from them. They are also a free people although I'm not an expert on their Constitution. You're right; we have to draw that line and we are not always going to draw it in the right place.

[Rick-Parker]

The problem in America is political correctness, which (I'm guessing) is not the case in Israel. Plus we occupy the majority or the continent and have over 300,000,000 people who are free to do anything they want. Israel is in a confined space and has far less people to worry about.

[nikki1]

Fort Hood Shootings Suspect May Have Wired Money To Pakistan

09:05 AM CST on Thursday, November 12, 2009

By DAVE MICHAELS / The Dallas Morning News

WASHINGTON

[CSLewis]

Our government and military really messed up on this one. Now soldiers are dead because of political correctness and not wanting to stereotype people. It's not rocket science the guy is walking around with a turbin on his head and spouting anti American rhetoric - attending a mosque that militant muslims and terrorists attended. Don't give me this post traumatic stress crap (or I guess pre traumatic stress in his case) this man is a terrorist and it is time to act on our gut instincts if it looks like a duck quacks like a duck then it is best to assume it is a duck . I don't want any more soldiers killed and if that means some Muslims get there feelings hurt well that's too bad.

[nikki1]

Our government and military really messed up on this one. Now soldiers are dead because of political correctness and not wanting to stereotype people. It's not rocket science the guy is walking around with a turbin on his head and spouting anti American rhetoric - attending a mosque that militant muslims and terrorists attended. Don't give me this post traumatic stress crap (or I guess pre traumatic stress in his case) this man is a terrorist and it is time to act on our gut instincts if it looks like a duck quacks like a duck then it is best to assume it is a duck . I don't want any more soldiers killed and if that means some Muslims get there feelings hurt well that's too bad.

It's going to be very telling where the money trail ends up.

Blessings,

Nikki

[CSLewis]

I heard a great conspiracy story the other day - that the army and military knew Hasan was a bad guy and that he had connections with terrorist organizations and that is why they wanted to send him to Afghanistan and while he was over there be watching his every move in hopes that Hasan would lead us to terrorist cells working in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Very interesting possibility. Maybe Hasan found out about this ploy of the government and decided to attack on his own, doing far more damage here than he could abroad.

[MorningGlory]

Our government and military really messed up on this one. Now soldiers are dead because of political correctness and not wanting to stereotype people. It's not rocket science the guy is walking around with a turbin on his head and spouting anti American rhetoric - attending a mosque that militant muslims and terrorists attended. Don't give me this post traumatic stress crap (or I guess pre traumatic stress in his case) this man is a terrorist and it is time to act on our gut instincts if it looks like a duck quacks like a duck then it is best to assume it is a duck . I don't want any more soldiers killed and if that means some Muslims get there feelings hurt well that's too bad.

These are statements to be made to our representatives and there should be an outpouring of support for Senator Lieberman. He is launching an investigation into this horrific mess. Part of which I blame on the military and the FBI. They really let these soldiers down with their limp wristed, wishy washy fear of 'offending'. Let me do it; I'll offend anyone who needs offending. Don't like it? Get out of my country then. Anyone with a backbone needs to scream their heads off until we get what we want. I, personally, want the death penalty made mandatory for terrorism. I want anyone with ties to extremists of ANY stripe excluded from the military. I want muslims watched....I don't want them to be given visas to come here. I want mosques infiltrated and fund raising stopped. I want CAIR dismantled and their directors indicted. Okay, that's for starters. Anyone have anything to add?

[Axxman]

These are statements to be made to our representatives and there should be an outpouring of support for Senator Lieberman. He is launching an investigation into this horrific mess. Part of which I blame on the military and the FBI. They really let these soldiers down with their limp wristed, wishy washy fear of 'offending'. Let me do it; I'll offend anyone who needs offending. Don't like it? Get out of my country then. Anyone with a backbone needs to scream their heads off until we get what we want. I, personally, want the death penalty made mandatory for terrorism. I want anyone with ties to extremists of ANY stripe excluded from the military. I want muslims watched....I don't want them to be given visas to come here. I want mosques infiltrated and fund raising stopped. I want CAIR dismantled and their directors indicted. Okay, that's for starters. Anyone have anything to add?

I was 100% with you (and still am) right up until you leveled your glare upon people who have done no wrong. There is no need to be offensive or to stand up and volunteer yourself for offensive tasks...its simply not necessary. As the days go by, and more and more info is relayed to us...it becomes increasingly clear that this guy was an OBVIOUS bad guy and our gov't didn't do anything about it until it was too late...its 9/11 mentality all over again.

There is nothing 'offensive' about cracking down hard on extremists.

[MorningGlory]

These are statements to be made to our representatives and there should be an outpouring of support for Senator Lieberman. He is launching an investigation into this horrific mess. Part of which I blame on the military and the FBI. They really let these soldiers down with their limp wristed, wishy washy fear of 'offending'. Let me do it; I'll offend anyone who needs offending. Don't like it? Get out of my country then. Anyone with a backbone needs to scream their heads off until we get what we want. I, personally, want the death penalty made mandatory for terrorism. I want anyone with ties to extremists of ANY stripe excluded from the military. I want muslims watched....I don't want them to be given visas to come here. I want mosques infiltrated and fund raising stopped. I want CAIR dismantled and their directors indicted. Okay, that's for starters. Anyone have anything to add?

I was 100% with you (and still am) right up until you leveled your glare upon people who have done no wrong. There is no need to be offensive or to stand up and volunteer yourself for offensive tasks...its simply not necessary. As the days go by, and more and more info is relayed to us...it becomes increasingly clear that this guy was an OBVIOUS bad guy and our gov't didn't do anything about it until it was too late...its 9/11 mentality all over again.

There is nothing 'offensive' about cracking down hard on extremists.

But the problem is that our government apparently thinks there is. I don't want to arrest all muslims....I simply want them under surveillance. I believe that's the case anyway but, for it not to be a waste of time and money, they actually need to round these mutants up. This guy Hasan should have been in jail; not at Fort Hood. Our government let our soldiers down here, in the name of Political Correctness. I say let me offend because I am not P.C. in the least and will say exactly what I mean. It would behoove many of our fellow Americans to do the same. Once the majority speaks the truth, those who hesitate will come around.