Guest LadyC Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 God doesn't steal away our free will once we accept salvation. we can't be "lost" but we do still have the choice to leave. sure seems to me that a lot of people like to judge a person's heart. i will never understand how apostasy can be so seriously warned about in scripture, and so many people just don't believe it exists. God wouldn't spend so much time on something if it wasn't real. so perhaps it would be better for people to say "it is my understanding that he was never saved in the first place". to make a statement as though it were fact that he'd never been saved is to stand in God's place and judge a person's heart. all we can say now, without damning ourselves that way, is that he has rejected God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCMS Posted November 24, 2009 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 48 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/21/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1984 Author Share Posted November 24, 2009 (edited) God doesn't steal away our free will once we accept salvation. we can't be "lost" but we do still have the choice to leave. sure seems to me that a lot of people like to judge a person's heart. i will never understand how apostasy can be so seriously warned about in scripture, and so many people just don't believe it exists. God wouldn't spend so much time on something if it wasn't real. so perhaps it would be better for people to say "it is my understanding that he was never saved in the first place". to make a statement as though it were fact that he'd never been saved is to stand in God's place and judge a person's heart. all we can say now, without damning ourselves that way, is that he has rejected God. Great reply, I fully agree. And to those who were wondering how I could be shocked, and say that this happens often, I guess because it just baffles me. It doesn't baffle me that someone can be a Christian and become an athiest. Doesn't baffle me that an athiest can become a Christian. The part that made me stop and go, 'wow', was because this was a preacher for 17 years. Someone who spent their life preaching the word of God everyday for nearly two decades. It's just harder for me to comprehend how someone can become so... lost, after being so... what's the word... "involved" in his faith, as a preacher anyway. That probably didn't come out the way I meant it, but hey, I tried. Edited November 24, 2009 by jesuschristmysavior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Joyful Posted November 24, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,901 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 365 Days Won: 29 Joined: 08/16/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted November 24, 2009 God doesn't steal away our free will once we accept salvation. we can't be "lost" but we do still have the choice to leave. sure seems to me that a lot of people like to judge a person's heart. i will never understand how apostasy can be so seriously warned about in scripture, and so many people just don't believe it exists. God wouldn't spend so much time on something if it wasn't real. so perhaps it would be better for people to say "it is my understanding that he was never saved in the first place". to make a statement as though it were fact that he'd never been saved is to stand in God's place and judge a person's heart. all we can say now, without damning ourselves that way, is that he has rejected God. Amen and Blessings LadyC, I found this scripture that deals with those that accepts Christ and turn away from Him. Let this reply be known NO judgment, just found this and hope it helps.......jot Hebrews 10:29-31,38-For if we sin willingly after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sin, But a certain fearful looking judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law did without mercy under 2-3 witnesses. how much more severe punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood covenant where with he was sanctified, and an holy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know Him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto Me, I will recompense, said the Lord. And again the Lord shall judge His people. It is fearful to fall into the hands of the living God. Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellarose Posted November 24, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 388 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/02/1989 Share Posted November 24, 2009 I don't believe Dan Barker was ever a Christian. He seems to have no understanding at all about the gospel, rather he "accepted Jesus" because he thought that he would get a better life that way. He was disappointed though that Jesus didn't make his life better, so he is now spending his days trying to mock and ridicule Christians and rid America of any hint of Christianity. It is sad to watch. He clearly never had any idea of the good news of the gospel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyguy Posted November 24, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 373 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 3,331 Content Per Day: 0.59 Reputation: 71 Days Won: 10 Joined: 10/15/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/24/1965 Share Posted November 24, 2009 The prodigal son left his father, turned away from him, yet he never stopped being his father's son. His father didn't disown him, or cut him off from the family, even though his son turned his back on him. He was, and remained, his son. Is God any less than man? No, of course not. My own son could leave, turn his back on me and never want anything to do with me again, but he will always have my love, and he will always be my son. My love is not based on what he DOES but on what he IS. And with God, our salvation is not based on what we have done, or what we will do, but on what Christ has done. God's love for His children is not dependant on their moods or actions. God loves His children because they simply ARE His children - and always will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikki1 Posted November 24, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 98 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,260 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 55 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/29/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted November 24, 2009 Jesus knew the cross would get heavy sometimes and He did say in to count the cost first in Luke's Gospel Ch. 14 before following him. In the four soils parable in Matthew 13:1-23,Jesus told us that not all seed will fall on good ground, indicating that not all who hear the word would bring forth good fruit, and some were not really converted, so we really should not be surprised. Today, as with this pastor, many hear the message of salvation and going to heaven when they die, but don't really have a change of heart or conviction of their own sinfulness and their need to have a saviour. Or when some heavy tribulation comes their way, rather than see it through and grow in the Lord using the Word of God and with the Holy Spirit's guidance, they will turn to a quick worldly fix, which is much easier. Matthew 13:1-23 KJV 1The same day went Jesus out of the house, and sat by the sea side. 2And great multitudes were gathered together unto him, so that he went into a ship, and sat; and the whole multitude stood on the shore. 3And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow; 4And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up: 5Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth: 6And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away. 7And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them: 8But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold. 9Who hath ears to hear, let him hear. 10And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? 11He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. 12For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. 13Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. 14And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: 15For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. 16But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. 17For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them. 18Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower. 19When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side. 20But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; 21Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended. 22He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful. 23But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold. Blessings, Nikki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Believer1997 Posted November 24, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 66 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 6,363 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 119 Days Won: 9 Joined: 11/07/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted November 24, 2009 God doesn't steal away our free will once we accept salvation. we can't be "lost" but we do still have the choice to leave. sure seems to me that a lot of people like to judge a person's heart. i will never understand how apostasy can be so seriously warned about in scripture, and so many people just don't believe it exists. God wouldn't spend so much time on something if it wasn't real. so perhaps it would be better for people to say "it is my understanding that he was never saved in the first place". to make a statement as though it were fact that he'd never been saved is to stand in God's place and judge a person's heart. all we can say now, without damning ourselves that way, is that he has rejected God. Amen and Blessings LadyC, I found this scripture that deals with those that accepts Christ and turn away from Him. Let this reply be known NO judgment, just found this and hope it helps.......jot Hebrews 10:29-31,38-For if we sin willingly after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sin, But a certain fearful looking judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law did without mercy under 2-3 witnesses. how much more severe punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood covenant where with he was sanctified, and an holy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know Him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto Me, I will recompense, said the Lord. And again the Lord shall judge His people. It is fearful to fall into the hands of the living God. Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him Amen!!! Great message, Jot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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