Following OT Law

[Guest yod]

Guile? The only guile here is your contempt for God's grace which shows through every post you have made.

You insist the law is still valid; however have yet to speak to "how then should we live?" It is a calculated move on your part because people could immediately see through your religious ideas for what they are.

Only more guile and now with added lies.

I've only quoted Yeshua and Paul. You are arguing against them when you offer only a link to one theologian.

"How shall we live"???? I posted NINE TIMES answering that question before you made such a ridiculous accusation.

The inability to read on your part doesn't contribute much credibility when you start posting guile (as if that is a defense of your weak position?)

(Titus 1:10 [KJV])

For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:

Whose mouths must be stopped [...]

And now you compound the lies with more ignorance. Not good form, brother.

[KC02]

I would venture to say that most people who claim the law is still valid have no idea what it says. For example the Laws states not to wear clothes of certain thread mixtures.

Do you really follow this?

The others who mix and match the Law to suit their fancy (obey the ones they like) are totally in error as I have pointed out in past threads.

Guile? The only guile here is your contempt for God's grace which shows through every post you have made.

You insist the law is still valid; however have yet to speak to "how then should we live?" It is a calculated move on your part because people could immediately see through your religious ideas for what they are.

There is nothing new to what you are teaching. Paul dealt with it too.

(Titus 1:10 [KJV])

For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:

Whose mouths must be stopped [...]

Don't we live by every word that proceeds out of Gods mouth? Or by grace and faith? I myself think that Yod and the rest have done a great job at explaining this subject. Are we to follow Gods laws within the Spirit they are given? for our instructions that leads to righteous living? I guess I must be included in that 'vain and unruly talkers that are out to decieve' since I see Gods torah as everlasting, righteous, good and there for our instructions. Paul was a Jew who followed the law, he walked in the Spirit of the law, he taught others to do so also from what I read. Yet Paul also reinterated what Yeshua Himself made clear, only belief in Him lead to eternal life not following sets of laws laid out by man nor even those given by God, but just because they do not save do not mean they need to be thrown away either. But what does teach us, what does God say leads to righteousness in His eyes, what did God tells us to do but follow all the words that come from Him.

[Guest yod]

I would venture to say that most people who claim the law is still valid have no idea what it says. For example the Laws states not to wear clothes of certain thread mixtures.

Do you really follow this?

The others who mix and match the Law to suit their fancy (obey the ones they like) are totally in error as I have pointed out in past threads.

And this is only more proof that you aren't even listening....

We're saying that the Torah (which is translated as "Law" but actually means "instruction") is STILL righteous, holy, and useful for instruction.

Why are we saying that? Because the BIBLE says that. We aren't quoting anyone but the scriptures when we say that. Is Yeshua, Paul, Peter, Ya'acov good enough for you? Is there a seminary in the world who carries more authority than them?

I'll post a few more for you...again.

Romans 2:13

For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.

Romans 2:18

you know his will and approve of what is superior because you are instructed by the law

Romans 3:20

Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

Romans 3:31

Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

[mizzdy]

I would venture to say that most people who claim the law is still valid have no idea what it says. For example the Laws states not to wear clothes of certain thread mixtures.

Do you really follow this?

The others who mix and match the Law to suit their fancy (obey the ones they like) are totally in error as I have pointed out in past threads.

Guile? The only guile here is your contempt for God's grace which shows through every post you have made.

You insist the law is still valid; however have yet to speak to "how then should we live?" It is a calculated move on your part because people could immediately see through your religious ideas for what they are.

There is nothing new to what you are teaching. Paul dealt with it too.

(Titus 1:10 [KJV])

For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:

Whose mouths must be stopped [...]

Don't we live by every word that proceeds out of Gods mouth? Or by grace and faith? I myself think that Yod and the rest have done a great job at explaining this subject. Are we to follow Gods laws within the Spirit they are given? for our instructions that leads to righteous living? I guess I must be included in that 'vain and unruly talkers that are out to decieve' since I see Gods torah as everlasting, righteous, good and there for our instructions. Paul was a Jew who followed the law, he walked in the Spirit of the law, he taught others to do so also from what I read. Yet Paul also reinterated what Yeshua Himself made clear, only belief in Him lead to eternal life not following sets of laws laid out by man nor even those given by God, but just because they do not save do not mean they need to be thrown away either. But what does teach us, what does God say leads to righteousness in His eyes, what did God tells us to do but follow all the words that come from Him.

Do you know why God said to not mix the fabrics or threads together?

[KC02]

We're saying that the Torah (which is translated as "Law" but actually means "instruction") is STILL righteous, holy, and useful for instruction.

We can certainly agree on that fact, but maybe not it's applicability for today. The only way to obey the Law is to love God and love others like Romans 13:8-10 teaches us. Law keeping can't be done any other way and that is all that is required to keep the Law.

See, if I can love you despite your quips, I am blameless to the Law. And sometimes you have to pray about it ...

[KC02]

I'll post a few more for you...again.

Romans 2:13

For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.

Romans 2:18

you know his will and approve of what is superior because you are instructed by the law

Romans 3:20

Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

Romans 3:31

Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

Your theology is a little lopsided because you completely ignore plain Scriptures that show the law is fulfilled only by loving our neighbor and Scriptures that show that Christians are no longer under such a system. You could have added some of these to your list. These are God's words, too, and they help make sense of the New Covenant in relation to the Old.

(Heb 8:6 [KJV])

But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. For if that first [covenant] had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

(Rom 6:14 [KJV])

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

(Gal 4:21 [KJV])

Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he [who was] of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman [was] by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written, Rejoice, [thou] barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him [that was born] after the Spirit, even so [it is] now. Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

(Gal 5:18 [KJV])

But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

(Gal 6:13 [KJV])

For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.

(Jas 2:10 [KJV])

For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.

(Gal 5:14 [KJV])

For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

(Rom 13:10 [KJV])

Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love [is] the fulfilling of the law.

[Guest yod]

Romans 2:13

For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.

Romans 2:18

you know his will and approve of what is superior because you are instructed by the law

Romans 3:20

Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

Romans 3:31

Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

Your theology is a little lopsided because you completely ignore plain Scriptures that show the law is fulfilled only by loving our neighbor and Scriptures that show that Christians are no longer under such a system.

Who you talking to? Paul said that. Shall I post what Yeshua said again??? How about Peter or Ya'acov? John? Who would you listen to?

Tell me how many times and ways you would have to hear it before it would matter because this is entirely consistent with every book of the Bible.

[JCISGD]

Romans 2:13

For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.

Romans 2:18

you know his will and approve of what is superior because you are instructed by the law

Romans 3:20

Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

Romans 3:31

Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

Your theology is a little lopsided because you completely ignore plain Scriptures that show the law is fulfilled only by loving our neighbor and Scriptures that show that Christians are no longer under such a system.

Who you talking to? Paul said that. Shall I post what Yeshua said again??? How about Peter or Ya'acov? John? Who would you listen to?

Tell me how many times and ways you would have to hear it before it would matter because this is entirely consistent with every book of the Bible.

Hi Yod what do mean when you talk of the obeying the law? If you mean the torah, does that include circumcision?

It is very clear that we must obey Christs commands which do include obeying all moral law. The contention may be what this means.

I am genuinely interested in your position on this.

[lekh l'kha]

Besides, if you decide to keep parts of the law because they appeal to your sense of religious decorum, you are on the hook for all of the law

Same as if you faithfully observe Christmas, Good Friday and Easter Sunday because they appeal to your sense of religious decorum.

Au contraire. No one was ever commanded to faithfully observe Christmas, Good Friday or Easter Sunday and keeping one does not obligate me to keep any or all of them on pain of being separated from God for disobedience. You keep Christmas in your way and I shall keep it in mine. Great example of reductio ad absurdum, though.

Why do you celebrate the birth of Christ on 25 December, when you can celebrate His birth on any day of the year? For that matter, why don't you celebrate His birth on the first day of the Feast of Tabernacles, since this is most likely the day He was born?

Why do you celebrate Christmas at all? I'll tell you why - it's because it appeals to your sense of religious decorum - otherwise you wouldn't do it. It's because you need to add some "form" of tradition to your faith in Christ.

Jesus wasn't born on Christmas day, and He wasn't crucified on Good Frdiay. Why don't you remember the crucifixion of Christ on Passover day - the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread? Why don't you celebrate Pentecost on the Biblical day of Pentecost?

Who added the religious decorum of Christmas and Easter anyway? It was the Roman Catholic Church, which took the pagan festival of Saturnalia which was held in honor of the incarnation of the sun-god, and turned it into a day to remember the birth of Christ; and which took the pagan festival held in honor of the fertility goddess Easter, and turned it into a time to remember the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ, which is why we have the fertility symbols of rabbits and eggs associated with Easter.

So why do you celebrate Christmas day at all, when you can remember the birth of Christ on any day of the year?

It's because you cannot break yourself from your NEED of this man-made religious decorum. Yet when others remember the birth of Christ on the first day of the Feast of Tabernacles, you say they show their need of religious decorum.

When you criticize others for doing on God's appointed Feast days what you do on man's appointed feast days, you're making yourself a hypocrite. So why criticize another's need for religious decorum when you can't break yourself away from your own need of religious decorum?

[lekh l'kha]

"Love the LORD your God with all your... and your neighbor as yourself. On these two hang ALL the Law and the prophets"

1. Love God: 5 commandments

2. Love neighbor: 5 commandments

1. 5 commandments to love God: ceremonial law

2. 5 commandments to love neighbor: civil law.

"I will write my law in therir hearts, and put it in their minds"

Once the Law is written on the heart, all its shadows falls away:

"In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away." (Heb 8:13)

But the shadows still instruct us about righteusness and holiness - and still lead us to Christ.