Throwing stones.

[JCISGD]

Do people really think Paul was saying he was the worst sinner after his conversion?

Think about it folks, are you saying he went around as Christ` chosen ambassador all the while sinning but yet calling others to repentance, how is this possible or even think able Christians are not called to leave their brains or common sense at the door, and believe the ludicrous.

Every command implies the ability to carry it out. Of course we cannot be holy without Gods help, but who cannot see that God promises His help everywhere throughout the scriptures, and delights to show His ease of ability to do that which seems impossible to us.

Of course if anyone tries to be holy they will fail, as it does not come by trying but by faith.

Paul was aware of his own sin. After his conversion he was forgiven, just like we all are, but he was just as imperfect as we all are. I am sure Paul struggled with things, just as Peter did, just as I do.

<>< ><>

Nathele

Paul only speaks of sin in his life when describing his presalvation state and the process that happens on the way to entire sanctification, everywhere else he discribes himself as holy(sinles) blameless, with a clear conscience before both God and man, being void of offense to anyone having done all that could be expected of him to all. If this is not without sin then what is?

If you are fixed in your belief then so be it, i will not argue it any further with you. My posts are for those who are open to the possibility of being wrong despite it being what they were taught to believe, or what they think the bible teaches. Peace to you.

[Believer1997]

Paul was aware of his own sin. After his conversion he was forgiven, just like we all are, but he was just as imperfect as we all are. I am sure Paul struggled with things, just as Peter did, just as I do.

<>< ><>

Nathele

TJ, I think you are right - Paul had struggles and prayed to be relieved of his burden, Paul becomes very real and human to me because of his alluding to his struggles and weaknesses... I do enjoy your wisdom TJ and your encouragement - Blessings!!

To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. 8Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. 9But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me. 10That is why, for Christ's sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

[JCISGD]

Paul was aware of his own sin. After his conversion he was forgiven, just like we all are, but he was just as imperfect as we all are. I am sure Paul struggled with things, just as Peter did, just as I do.

<>< ><>

Nathele

TJ, I think you are right - Paul had struggles and prayed to be relieved of his burden, Paul becomes very real and human to me because of his alluding to his struggles and weaknesses... I do enjoy your wisdom TJ and your encouragement - Blessings!!

To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. 8Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. 9But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me. 10That is why, for Christ's sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

hi Believer i will not think anything of it if you do not reply to me as you previously stated your reasons for not doing so in the future and i respect that.

I do not think Paul was not sinning by asking for his burden to be removed just as Christ also prayed for such, they both submitted to the Fathers will and answer to their request. Weaknesses and struggles have no moral character and are also not sin. If i have a broken leg that prevents me achieving my goal or my best efforts fail to get results neither are sin, if we did all that could be asked of us, which Paul did.

Its true that conceit is a sin, but Paul says he was kept from this sin not that he committed it. Paul is not the cause of the thorn in his flesh and therefore is not confessing to sin.

There is nowhere in the bible that Paul confesses to sin. Rom 7 is a theological descriptrion of Gods process in bringing us to total sanctification and v24+25 are the concluding remarks that prove this. We know Paul did not walk in the flesh, but in the power of the Spirit, and "whoever is led by the Spirit does not fulfill the lusts of the flesh".

[Believer1997]

Thank-you everyone for easing my mind on this matter.There is nothing like the combined thoughts of the body to make something clear.

Oh...and canuck..i have seen curling and am sure it is a sin.

all.

Jesus.

I'm glad you got some clarity - despite the fact that so many different thoughts on the matter which are often flawed - as we all are... Just interesting!! Blessings to you!!

[Trusting Jesus]

I'm glad that you got the answer you were looking for. We are not perfect, just forgiven Thank God, I'm forgiven.

<>< ><>

Nathele

[Believer1997]

I'm glad that you got the answer you were looking for. We are not perfect, just forgiven Thank God, I'm forgiven.

<>< ><>

Nathele

[Trusting Jesus]

Paul was aware of his own sin. After his conversion he was forgiven, just like we all are, but he was just as imperfect as we all are. I am sure Paul struggled with things, just as Peter did, just as I do.

<>< ><>

Nathele

TJ, I think you are right - Paul had struggles and prayed to be relieved of his burden, Paul becomes very real and human to me because of his alluding to his struggles and weaknesses... I do enjoy your wisdom TJ and your encouragement - Blessings!!

To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. 8Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. 9But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me. 10That is why, for Christ's sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

Thanks, Believer. Paul was a great man of God, but through his life he became more and more aware of his own sin. I am certain that he never again held anyone's coats as they stoned someone, but he was just as human as we all are.

<>< ><>

Nathele

[Believer1997]

Paul was aware of his own sin. After his conversion he was forgiven, just like we all are, but he was just as imperfect as we all are. I am sure Paul struggled with things, just as Peter did, just as I do.

<>< ><>

Nathele

TJ, I think you are right - Paul had struggles and prayed to be relieved of his burden, Paul becomes very real and human to me because of his alluding to his struggles and weaknesses... I do enjoy your wisdom TJ and your encouragement - Blessings!!

To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. 8Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. 9But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me. 10That is why, for Christ's sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

Thanks, Believer. Paul was a great man of God, but through his life he became more and more aware of his own sin. I am certain that he never again held anyone's coats as they stoned someone, but he was just as human as we all are.

<>< ><>

Nathele

Nathele,

I've read so many books about Paul and listened to many interesting sermons about him. I think he was so human and full of human frailties and yet, became such a Warrior for God. I think he must have truly been an amazing man.

[JCISGD]

Do people really think Paul was saying he was the worst sinner after his conversion?

Think about it folks, are you saying he went around as Christ` chosen ambassador all the while sinning but yet calling others to repentance, how is this possible or even think able Christians are not called to leave their brains or common sense at the door, and believe the ludicrous.

Every command implies the ability to carry it out. Of course we cannot be holy without Gods help, but who cannot see that God promises His help everywhere throughout the scriptures, and delights to show His ease of ability to do that which seems impossible to us.

Of course if anyone tries to be holy they will fail, as it does not come by trying but by faith.

Paul was aware of his own sin. After his conversion he was forgiven, just like we all are, but he was just as imperfect as we all are. I am sure Paul struggled with things, just as Peter did, just as I do.

<>< ><>

Nathele

Paul only speaks of sin in his life when describing his presalvation state and the process that happens on the way to entire sanctification, everywhere else he discribes himself as holy(sinles) blameless, with a clear conscience before both God and man, being void of offense to anyone having done all that could be expected of him to all. If this is not without sin then what is?

If you are fixed in your belief then so be it, i will not argue it any further with you. My posts are for those who are open to the possibility of being wrong despite it being what they were taught to believe, or what they think the bible teaches. Peace to you.

Was Paul blameless because it was not he that sinned,it was his flesh?Paul's heart condition was without sin,but his nature was not.

Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

hi agua, my understanding is that Romans is a letter of theology sent to the church in Rome, but passed around to all the churches unlike his other letters that were more instructional than theological. Of course there are some overlaps, but that is why Romans 7 is not Pauls present condition as he is describing the condition and process from start to finish of the carnal into the spiritual man.

The verses above confuse alot christians today as they do not know how to rightly interperet Romans, i certainly didnt and had to be taught. If we read all of Romans as a whole we see Paul has the object in mind of explaining sin, salvation and sanctification. We see also it is progressive and systematic theology, therefore to isolate one chapter and say ah ha, see Paul claims to be beleaguered by sin is not sound exegesis.

Right exegeses would mean we take the plain and multiple claims of Paul that he lived a holy and blameless life over the supposed one claim he was a sinner in Rom 7:17-24 and the unusal claim of being the cheif of sinners which is almost certainly his presalvation condition.

I guess i should start a new topic but ive been there more than a few times. Those that sin find the fact that Paul and others overcame all sin by Gods power just too much to bear, because they think they need to try harder, but it is only God that can sanctify us and we just have to come into line with Gods way of doing it.

[Openly Curious]

Throwing stones at those who are in sin will land you right into a prison cell. I highly would not condone throwing stones. There are different methods that are used to reach the lost not by throwing stones.

Jude 23--And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

Proverbs 12:30--The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; "and he that winneth souls is wise."

Daniel 12:3--And they that be "wise" shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and "they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever."

Throwing stones at sinners are only going to make them dead then they will be unreachable forever.

We expose sin by turning away from it and in so doing we expose sin as it is exposed to us personally and it becomes of no value or hurt.