George Fox

[Seeker100]

the case we keep referencing is andrea yates.

she believed what she did WAS out of love, and WAS done because God's voice told her to do it.

she believed God wanted her to kill her children because they were apparently approaching the age of accountability and that if they didn't die now, they would end up going to hell because they would never give their lives to God.

cb, you and i and most of us here understand that the voice she heard was certainly NOT God's voice.

the question to seeker is, how can any of us be certain that the voice we hear is God's voice? "love" is not a good enough answer, because the world in general doesn't understand what love really is. andrea yates believed what she did was out of love. a sincere love of wanting to ensure that her children were saved and would be in heaven.

I do not even know about htis case. It must be something happening in your country. I know nothing of it. From what you write, perhaps she made it up or maybe she has some sort of mental illness. I do not know. I am not one to make a judgement on this and neither are you. You in your arm chair do not know shy she did it. It is between that lady and the Lord.

i'm not asking you to make a judgment. i'm not making one either. this case happened 10 years ago, and she was declared insane. but SHE THOUGHT the voice was God, and she followed that voice because it was LOVE.

so therefore, you MUST answer the question that has been asked a million times by now.

how can one know for certain that the inner voice they hear is actually God?

that is not asking for you to judge, it's asking you to EXPLAIN YOUR POSITION.

If you take it this far, how can you even believe your own eyes? I mean some people are insane and they see things. Thus how can you know if what you see is real? Some people are crazy and they see things that are not there. Because some people are crazy I am not going to stop believing what I see. Are you?

[Permie]

Hey Thanks Permie

Your welcome.

I guess most people want to know if you have studied the bible. Which came first: the chicken or the egg?

[Guest LadyC]

permie, please go back and read the entire thread from beginning to end. you're not helping seeker gain any knowledge or understanding of God's word. he's in serious error on multiple counts, and by tickling his ears, you are reinforcing stubbornness AGAINST the word of God.

[Seeker100]

You certainly love to be argumentative about nothing. If a lady kills her kids I would say with my understanding that that is against God. That is not love. The judgement of hte action however is between God and her. Perhaps there is insanity I don't know and neither do you.

How do you know it is against God?

where do you get that understanding?

yes! where does one get that understanding? after all, the inner voice in her heart told her to do it, and she did it because she LOVED her children and wanted to save them from hell.

how come she was wrong? she heard the voice and responded out of love, and that is how we are to know something is really God's voice, according to all you have written.

Scripture tells us that Satan comes to kill, steal and destroy. To me it seems to be obvious that any voice telling a person to do something that would result in those outcomes is clearly not hearing from God.

The love that is God would be exemplified by the following verses:

4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

8 Love never fails.... 1 Corinthians 13:4-7 and part of 8

Any actions with these results would be God's love.

yes, but how do we know that if we don't study scripture? seeker believes that the written word of God is SECONDARY to our feelings. (that inner voice of love). at least that's what he has said, and numerous attempts to get him to clarify himself have resulted only in refusal to explain.

God wrote the bible and thus He is the one to teach us what it says. I did not say that the bible is secondary to anything. I say that our understanding of the bible must come fromm God if our reading of the bible is to be true.

and so our understanding of the bible comes from what? that inner voice? but how do we know that inner voice is of God without FIRST studying the bible? what is the yardstick seeker? is the yardstick "love"? that feel-good feeling we get? that if it tickles our ears it's truly God because it feels like love?

understanding of God's word, and His character, come from STUDYING the bible. the Holy Spirit gives us understanding, not revelation. it is not mysticism. it's pretty straight forward.

but we can NOT rely on some "inner voice" or some perception of "love" or on our heart. scripture tells us not to do that. why? because it's deceptive.

the ONLY way to know if some "inner voice" is God is to make sure it lines up with scripture. and how do we do that? we study the scripture and see if it says the same thing our inner voice is telling us.

God is not deceptive. I have faith in His word over your interpretation of the bible.

i never said God is deceptive. i said that the BIBLE says that our hearts are deceptive. that's not interpretation, it's right there in the bible. have you checked what i have to say against the word of God? or are you just assuming that i'm "interpreting" incorrectly and that you are correct.

LOL it has possibly got to that point.

[Seeker100]

Hey Thanks Permie

Your welcome.

I guess most people want to know if you have studied the bible. Which came first: the chicken or the egg?

Permie, I can learn from you!

[Guest LadyC]

LOL it has possibly got to that point.

good. so get back to me once you've studied scripture and found some answers in there. you can start with jeremiah and psalms if you'd like to doublecheck and see if God really says that our hearts are deceptive and that we are not to rely on our hearts.

[Guest LadyC]

and permie, the chicken came first.

[Permie]

and permie, the chicken came first.

So? The chicken is the bible?

That looks differently than I meant it, with the question mark after the so. Was just showing my inquiry too soon.

Edited January 24, 2010 by Permie

[Guest LadyC]

and permie, the chicken came first.

So? The chicken is the bible?

Jesus is the word. has been since before creation. God didn't lay any eggs. but He did inspire men to record what He said so that it would be in written form.

[Permie]

and permie, the chicken came first.

So? The chicken is the bible?

Jesus is the word. has been since before creation. God didn't lay any eggs. but He did inspire men to record what He said so that it would be in written form.

Okay. I agree. Then... how come the emphasis is on the bible so much? Now, don't get me wrong... the bible is very valuable to me.

However, I do agree that we need the Holy Spirit to guide us in understanding the bible to know it's truth as it is supposed to be known. And, also, that this same truth can be known without the bible... if that is God's will for us. Just studying the scriptures will not allow us to know God's truth. We can believe we do though.

God continues to inspire people and allows us to know the hidden truths, the mysteries hidden throughout the ages... as scripture states. Due to this inspiration occurring still, it stands to reason that some have not yet received the inspired Word as completely as the apostles did.