Listening to the Holy Spirit

[Permie]

That and fear.

Not sure about fear. That's a human problem.

I would think that all spiritual woes are a human problem. It is my opinion that fear is the root of all sins as fear is the true opposite of love. Many think that it is hate that is the opposite, but it is fear.

There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. 1 John 4:18

Hate is the opposite of love, even though fear is also a powerful emotion. We can love and fear at the same time. We can not love and hate at the same time.

Proverbs 1:7

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, But fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Proverbs 9:10

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

Proverbs 15:33

The fear of the LORD is the instruction of wisdom, And before honor is humility.

Thank you for proving what I said: Many think that it is hate that is the opposite, ...

When we fear God we will obey Him.

There is no sense in what you say. One can fear the Lord and love Him. One can not hate the Lord and love Him.

I note again the issue with semantics. I have no disagreement here with what you said, except of course your first comment.

Fear and Love are not opposites, no matter how hard you try to make them such.

Then tell me please why there is no fear in perfected love?

Edited January 26, 2010 by Permie

[Ovedya]

And as is usual the proving scripture was ignored that said that there is no fear in perfected love. And just why would that be?

As for the healthy respect, correct, I agree. Same holds true, when we respect God we will obey Him. If we don't, well there's plenty of scripture about that. The first whom are thrown in the lake of fire are the fearful.

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Revelation 21:8

Permie, your theology is a bit strange to me. Do you know that it means when it says "But the fearful..." in Revelation 21:8? It means "the cowardly."

As OneLight pointed out, you cannot engage in two completely contradictory activities at the same time. One cannot love and hate at the same time. Therefore they are opposites. However one can fear God and love Him at the same time.

The type of fear described in 1John 4:18 is the fear of the judgment, which is mentioned in verse 17. This is not "common fear," but very specific fear of God's judgment. Perfect love casts out fear because of God's reigning within us. Therefore there is no fear of judgment, because the infilling of God - who is love (vs. 16) - casts it out.

I think that a definition of "fear" is needed here, because there's a lot of confusion about what type of fear we're talking about.

[Permie]

And as is usual the proving scripture was ignored that said that there is no fear in perfected love. And just why would that be?

As for the healthy respect, correct, I agree. Same holds true, when we respect God we will obey Him. If we don't, well there's plenty of scripture about that. The first whom are thrown in the lake of fire are the fearful.

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Revelation 21:8

Permie, your theology is a bit strange to me. Do you know that it means when it says "But the fearful..." in Revelation 21:8? It means "the cowardly."

As OneLight pointed out, you cannot engage in two completely contradictory activities at the same time. One cannot love and hate at the same time. Therefore they are opposites. However one can fear God and love Him at the same time.

The type of fear described in 1John 4:18 is the fear of the judgment, which is mentioned in verse 17. This is not "common fear," but very specific fear of God's judgment. Perfect love casts out fear because of God's reigning within us. Therefore there is no fear of judgment, because the infilling of God - who is love - casts it out.

I think that a definition of "fear" is needed here, because there's a lot of confusion about what type of fear we're talking about.

I agree there does need to be a definition of fear to know what we are talking about.

I see cowards as those who will not step up and obey God.

Could you do me a favor? Would you post the scripture you are talking about as you are speaking? Please? I'd GREATLY appreciate it.

[Ovedya]

And as is usual the proving scripture was ignored that said that there is no fear in perfected love. And just why would that be?

As for the healthy respect, correct, I agree. Same holds true, when we respect God we will obey Him. If we don't, well there's plenty of scripture about that. The first whom are thrown in the lake of fire are the fearful.

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Revelation 21:8

Permie, your theology is a bit strange to me. Do you know that it means when it says "But the fearful..." in Revelation 21:8? It means "the cowardly."

As OneLight pointed out, you cannot engage in two completely contradictory activities at the same time. One cannot love and hate at the same time. Therefore they are opposites. However one can fear God and love Him at the same time.

The type of fear described in 1John 4:18 is the fear of the judgment, which is mentioned in verse 17. This is not "common fear," but very specific fear of God's judgment. Perfect love casts out fear because of God's reigning within us. Therefore there is no fear of judgment, because the infilling of God - who is love - casts it out.

I think that a definition of "fear" is needed here, because there's a lot of confusion about what type of fear we're talking about.

I agree there does need to be a definition of fear to know what we are talking about.

I see cowards as those who will not step up and obey God.

Could you do me a favor? Would you post the scripture you are talking about as you are speaking? Please? I'd GREATLY appreciate it.

Which verses are you referring to? I was responding to the ones that you had posted earlier. The ones I mentioned above are 1 John 4:16-18, and the one you posted was Rev. 21:8.

Incidentally, the "cowardly" in Rev. 21:8 are unbelievers, not believers.

[Fez]

yârê'

yaw-ray'

From H3372; fearing; morally reverent: - afraid, fear (-ful).

Do I "fear" God in a morally reverent way? You bet.

Do I "fear" Him in a knee knocking, terrified, hell fire and brimstone way. No. But I could, I would, if He chose to unleash His wrath on me. Which He won't, because I live under His grace, and if He does choose to discipline me, teach me, He will do it, has done it, with love!

[OneLight]

Fear and Love are not opposites, no matter how hard you try to make them such.

Then tell me please why there is no fear in perfected love?

Because pure love has none. It neither has hate, jealousy, pride, covertness, selfish ambitions, contentions and the like. These also are not the opposite of love, yet true love lacks them.

[Believer1997]

I only hear the Holy Spirit when I am close to Him. To me, at least, He does not shout, He whispers. And so, I have to stay close to Him at all times. It is when I stray that I do not hear His voice, but that of the world, and I follow my own thoughts down roads that lead to Dead ends. Sometimes the way back is difficult, much more difficult than the outward journey, which at the time seems so easy.

So I have to constantly try to stay close. And the only way I can do that is through another walk, one filled with prayer, reading, church, worship and fellowship. Jesus said, if you love Me you will obey Me. I don't think He was talking about the legalistic obey that the law taught, I think He meant follow me and my Word, cicumcise your heart, open it to me.

And sometimes, just sometimes, when I think, I don't want to host home group tonight, I am just too tired, or I don't feel like going to church today because I just want to put my feet up, drink a coke and watch TV, I obey, and I go. I don't do this out of a fear, or a legalistic attitude, I do it because I love Him, and I obey. I might not enjoy church on that day, the lesson might go right over my head, but I obey, because I love Him.

And the next home group, the next church service, the next outreach, I know the Spirit is with me, I know He is always with me, but this time I feel Him, I "hear" Him. And I guess that is what my walk is all about.

When the noise of the world gets in the way, when out of love for Him, I just obey, when the attacks that life sends come, if I am close, I hear Him.

Sort of like this:-

1Ki 19:11 And he said, "Go out and stand on the mount before the LORD." And behold, the LORD passed by, and a great and strong wind tore the mountains and broke in pieces the rocks before the LORD, but the LORD was not in the wind. And after the wind an earthquake, but the LORD was not in the earthquake.

1Ki 19:12 And after the earthquake a fire, but the LORD was not in the fire. And after the fire the sound of a low whisper.

1Ki 19:13 And when Elijah heard it, he wrapped his face in his cloak and went out and stood at the entrance of the cave. And behold, there came a voice to him and said, "What are you doing here, Elijah?"

So in the earthquakes and wind and fire of my life, even when I am hiding in my cave, I still have to be close enough to listen for the whisper.

For that is how He talks to me........

Blessings

Amen, Fez. I often feel so internalized with things of everyday angst and often just want to curl up and sleep, but when I obey and go to church, or Bible Study, or to Food Bank to work... I do so because I love Him.... and I always feel blessed by doing so. He never fails to bless me each day.

[mizzdy]

The controversy comes when people give the "voice" of the Holy Spirit dominion over the "Written Word" of the Holy Spirit.

Nobody in any of the threads I was a part of said the Holy Spirit did not talk to us, but we did say that we can

[~candice~]

The controversy comes when people give the "voice" of the Holy Spirit dominion over the "Written Word" of the Holy Spirit.

Nobody in any of the threads I was a part of said the Holy Spirit did not talk to us, but we did say that we can

[Smalcald]

I think the fear of God and awe of God are very closely related.

I enjoy the outdoors greatly. I have an awe of some of the larger animals that I have encountered in the wild and a fear, but the fear is simply a recognition of the power of some of these animals, not an anxious fear (unless I do something stupid around them). A fear born of respect maybe is what I am searching for.

I mean so we take God, a being or entity that is so massive that the sun is like a match stick, let alone a bear or a mountain lion, think of the awe of even being close to interacting with this God, who is as scripture says a consuming fire, that no man can stand to gaze upon.