Attending a Synagog

[nikki1]

Blessings, Nebula...

So I really disagree with you on this.

That's cool !

I do not intend to argue this with you, because the facts speak for themselves. My intent was to point out that I believe Judaism is a false religion based upon the fact that those Jews who follow Judaism are not looking for Jesus, the true Messiah, but "another" man, not divine, not a redeemer of sin, who will bring all Jews back to the land, restore Jerusalem, rebuild the temple, establish temple sacrifices, set up a world government out of Israel. This is who they anticipate coming and are looking for, based upon my research and knowledge. You can go around in circles, but it is not going to change this fact unless you can show me this is not the messiah Judiasm is looking for.

Grace to you,

He's the same Messiah that they are looking for. The Word is clear, He will do all of these things minus the sacrifices for sin. Whether they believe it or not and whether they realize He's divine or not. Even the Apostles didn't undersatnd the full meaning of His Deity until they received the Holy Spirit.

No Israel, No Jesus. No God of Abraham, No God of Christianity.

Peace,

Dave

The Word is clear. But Judaism is not looking for Jesus. That it also clear.

These are the things that Judaism is waiting for. This is the "messiah" Jews say they will follow. We should pay attention to this when trying to understand exactly who they will follow in the last days, which I believe we are living in, because the anti-christ will do all of these things the Jews are looking for in their "messiah" before the return of Jesus.

Blessings,

[Smalcald]

I agree that there are many in the Church today who also are blind.

Do the blind lead though; in our faith? Do we say yes I want to be led by the blind and take part with them in how they worship and who they pray to?

Yes in Nebula's case we can pray at the same time when someone else is praying of a different faith confession, be it Judaism or Islam or Hindu I think that is fine and indeed Nebula pointed out how positive that may be. However when I partake of another worship service I am and become part of that worship. We cannot enter a Hindu temple and take part in the worship of those God's. We cannot take part in Friday prayers at a Mosque and I don

[nikki1]

So the conclusion is that the Jews only got it half right and we are to pray for them to grasp the full monty? The Bible does say they will know Him. That looks like a promise to me.

The Bible actually invites a gentile to be a faithful witness to the Jew.

Deuteronomy 7:6

"FOR THOU (THE JEWISH PEOPLE) ART A 'HOLY' PEOPLE UNTO THE LORD THY GOD: THE LORD THY GOD HATH 'CHOSEN' THEE TO BE A 'SPECIAL' PEOPLE UNTO HIMSELF, ABOVE ALL PEOPLE THAT ARE UPON THE FACE OF THE EARTH."

If they were praying and worshipping a 'false god' as some of you say, then why does God think of them as chosen, special and holy people unto Himself? He doesn't say "If they believe in my Son, they will be chosen, special and holy". They already are chosen, special and holy unto Himself!

Zachariah 2:12 The LORD Himself tell us "for he that toucheth you (the Jewish people) toucheth the Apple of His (The LORD's) Eye."

Matthew 10:6 our LORD Jesus Christ spoke of the Jewish people as "the lost sheep of the house of Israel", and He commissioned His disciples to "go" and "preach" saying , "the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

The Jewish Apostle Saul-Paul who was sent by our LORD to the Gentiles (non-Jewish people) to preach and witness of GOD's love, said:

Romans 1:16 "For I am not ashamed of The Gospel of Christ: for it is the power of GOD unto salvation to every one that believeth; 'to the Jew first', and also to the Gentile".

Are you afraid to witness to the Jew even though the Bible tells you to witness to the Jew first? So much slander regarding the Jew. It's getting old. This is exactly why they don't want to turn to Christ, because of the examples being led by the lot of us, I agree.

I encourage you to sit in prayer today. Ask God to give you wisdom and understand as well as how to be an effective witness to the Jew. :wub:

hmmm.... I do not know if you are speaking to me, but you seem to be making this a personal accusation. I merely pointed out something I have been shown ref Judaism. You don't have to agree with me, but to make it a personal thing is just plain wrong. You don't know me or anything about me, so please keep your personal insults to yourself.

As far as my witnessing to the Jewish people, I probably have led more Jews to Christ than you know.

Blessings,

[Smalcald]

Smalcald, there is still a Jewish birthright. It's not just about a 'belief system'. It is a heritage as well. They are the chosen ones, special and holy unto Himself. Read my post above please. Scripture is clear we are to witness to the Jew first.

Sure I agree. But worshipping with them is not witnessing to them in fact it is the opposite it is saying that you agree with their beliefs.

Check out the website Jews for Judiasm, do not be decieved about what Judiasm believes. From this website:

http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/

Judaism and Christianity are two different belief systems. They differ from each other on foundational issues such as the identity of God and atonement from sin. Yet these two disparate belief systems point to the same Jewish Bible as a fundamental element of their respective faiths. The do ctrines of Judaism and Christianity are diametrical opposites, yet the proponents of both sides of the argument find encouragement in the pages of same book.

It is obvious that only one of these belief systems can be reading the book correctly. The adherents of one faith are following the true intent of the Divine Author, while the adherents of the other faith must be misusing the book.

[nebula]

So the conclusion is that the Jews only got it half right and we are to pray for them to grasp the full monty? The Bible does say they will know Him. That looks like a promise to me.

The Bible actually invites a gentile to be a faithful witness to the Jew.. . .

Thanks for posting these words, Jami!

[nebula]

... and I don

[Smalcald]

Smalcald, there is still a Jewish birthright. It's not just about a 'belief system'. It is a heritage as well. They are the chosen ones, special and holy unto Himself. Read my post above please. Scripture is clear we are to witness to the Jew first.

Sure I agree. But worshipping with them is not witnessing to them in fact it is the opposite it is saying that you agree with their beliefs.

Check out the website Jews for Judiasm, do not be decieved about what Judiasm believes. From this website:

http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/

Judaism and Christianity are two different belief systems. They differ from each other on foundational issues such as the identity of God and atonement from sin. Yet these two disparate belief systems point to the same Jewish Bible as a fundamental element of their respective faiths. The do ctrines of Judaism and Christianity are diametrical opposites, yet the proponents of both sides of the argument find encouragement in the pages of same book.

It is obvious that only one of these belief systems can be reading the book correctly. The adherents of one faith are following the true intent of the Divine Author, while the adherents of the other faith must be misusing the book.

They believe the same thing we do. They just don't know Jesus as Messiah. There is a difference between not knowing and not believing.

They do NOT believe in the same thing we do, they are not Christians in waiting. It is a DIFFERENT faith. Ask Jewish people who practice Judaism if they believe the same thing that we do.

Did you not read the website about what Judaism believes? According to Jews for Judaism:

Judaism and Christianity are two different belief systems. They differ from each other on foundational issues such as the identity of God and atonement from sin.

We differ on the identity of God; and the atonement of sin; the website is exactly correct it is not a small difference. They are not waiting on a Messiah to forgive their sins, they have a whole different conception of the Messiah than we do. In addition; Judaism is not the faith of the Jewish nation, do not confuse the two, the true faith of the Jewish nation, the chosen people of God, is the faith of Paul, Peter, John, and James and so forth, those are the Jews we should be following these are the true followers of God and they alone hold the truth of the Jewish Nation. Modern Judaism is not simply Christianity without Jesus it has a whole different concept of what the Messiah will do and who He is.

We cannot partake of a false religion; it is indeed denying Christ to do so to worship under a Rabbi who rejects Christ is not a good thing for a believer to do, ever.

[nebula]

The Jews do not consider us to worship the same God because we consider Jesus to be God.

But I have no reason to believe the Jews in synagogue are not worshiping the God of Israel.

[JCISGD]

I think all agree Israel are the natural branches and we gentile are the grafted in, but its wrong to believe Jews A.D are praying to God unless they recieve Jesus. Its clear that B.C only those Jews who had the faith of Abraham were saved by their faith in Christ to come, and that many Jews were lost to hell.

Jesus` chastisement of the Pharisee`s was that not only were they lost and not following God (as Abraham in true righteousness), but that they were also blocking the way for average people to find salvation.

It should be remembered that God stopped sending Prophets to Israel 400 yrs prior to Christ, as they had hardened their hearts and were no longer listening to anything He had to say. By leaving them in barreness and Prophetless they eventually were ready for the coming messiah, but those who reject Christ are still lost and are not praying to God if they persist in Judaism, and denying Christ has come in the flesh.

Imo their understanding of Gods nature and will is ALL wrong, and based on false religious self effort.

[Smalcald]

They believe the same thing we do. They just don't know Jesus as Messiah. There is a difference between not knowing and not believing.

this is a little confusing. they know "of" Jesus. they know quite well of Him, as He has been the scapegoat for much of the harm done to them. but they don't "believe" in Him as Messiah. we do. so how can they believe the same thing we do? they know He came and they state He is not Messiah--polar opposite of what we believe. if they had never heard of Him, i could understand what you are saying. but they have. so i don't.

Meaning, they believe in the same God as we do. Not ALL Jews know of Jesus, heard the Gospel. Just because they are in the synagogue today, doesn't mean they wont be in a church next week

Also, the Bible says "they will know Him". Just because someone knows of Jesus, doesn't mean they know Him.

I general I guess I don't disagree with any of those points. I guess your saying that even if they claim as they do; that they certainly are NOT worshipping the same God as we are, they really are and just don't know it?

But how about worship? Should we worship under a Rabbi in a synagogue? You see my point is not that these people will not eventually convert to faith in Christ, but about how we should act as current followers of Christ. Are we called to worship with people and worship under the direction of people whose doctrine holds that Christ is not the Lord? I would say no we should not do that.

This for me is not just about Judaism, but would apply to all non-Christian faiths. Can we worship at a Hindu temple, can we worship at a Mosque, and can we practice Buddhist meditation? How about being part of fraternal organizations that have rituals that are non-Christian such as the Masons? How about the whole sweat lodge deal. So I think the original poster brought up a very relevant and pertinent topic in today's world of pluralistic religious beliefs.

I think as Christians we are going to be subtly and eventually blatantly challenged in this area and will be seen as exclusionary or even bigoted if we refuse to worship with non-Christians.

If a Jewish person who practiced Judaism showed up at your congregation wanting to learn and pray with you what would you think? Would you think that they are interested in possibly learning about faith in Christ, possibly converting, or would you think that they are there to simply learn and help the Christians move toward Judaism? So how are we viewed when we show up at a Synagogue for worship? If we are there to try to spread the Good News, is that even honest for us to do that under cover of wanting to come and learn and pray with them?