Is Jesus God?

[JohnD]

How can God's WORD be God? Like saying the two became one flesh. Really? Post-coitally became ONE?

So the answer is no John didn't call any of the 18 other uses of the word logos God. Thank you.

Argument one of nothead: REFUTED.

How can God's WORD be God? Like saying the two became one flesh. Really? Post-coitally became ONE?

No, just evidence of multiple individuals who are the one God. That's the only way God could be with God.

I don't think it was a literal saying. It was a doxology of some kind. It was an explanation of how YHWH was replaced by other words in the scripture, probably.

Just FYI, "I don't think" statements don't impress me. What I think and you think and anyone else but God thinks is meaningless unless it abides with scripture. YHVH is not replaced... no one here (certainly not I) even suggested such a thing. And if you interpret kai theos en ho logos as the words of scripture are divine then why do you oppose them?

Word, wisdom, lord, angel. These in the Targums replace YHWH which was becoming too personal a name for people.

Oh, you are drawing from an uninspired non-biblical source to attempt to refute scripture. I see where you are coming from.

You guys are mathematicians. Scripture is not usually.

Suffice it to say nothead arguments 2 and 3: REFUTED.

[JohnD]

Eerp. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I say Jesus is not YHWH because Shema says so. I don't have to know WHAT he is in order to believe WHAT he is to me. My Savior.

shma yisro'el YHVH eloheynu YHVH echad

Sorry, hear Israel, YHVH the God of us YHVH is one says nothing about YHVH not being Jesus. Your indoctrination is why you believe what you believe and it is imposed on the shma.

You guys think you can put GOD on the operating table and describe his inner workings or WHAT he is exactly? Good luck, it is anathema to the Jewish world view.

Have you spoken to Larry Feldman? David Gold? Barney Kasdan? All Jews who believe in Jesus and who believe in the Triune God and that Jesus is YHVH. Google their homepages and ask them for yourself.

YHWH is a name of no name. In a sense he has no name because his name means HE WILL BE WHOM HE WILL BE. And you are gonna cut him up, dissect him and describe some kind of

3 hypostasis and a common OUSIA?

It is the Hebrew equivalent to the Greek I AM I WAS I AM TO BE. So? And how is this not you doing precisely what you are accusing us guys of doing?

Please, I wasn't born yesterday. Cat Stevens told me I couldn't even make a flower grow in the '70's. I am going to answer all of these kind of questions? I am nothead. Not a pro shyster hiding

behind anything.

How is old Yusef Islam doing these days? I saw a video of the old boy reliving his protestant days having a concert filled with turbins and burkas... mostly young people looking as if they were wondering what they were doing there listening to an old coot belting out songs which did not apply to them. Young or old, you ain't getting the biblical points raised here gleaned from scripture.

He was born of the virgin and the Holy Spirit. By scripture. I don't have to know what he is. More than a prophet. More than the angels. More than a holy man. Messiah. Son of God. Savior.

What else. Plz inform me and tell me why.

Oh, so you don't believe in a counterfeit Jesus. That's why.

[OneLight]

Thank you for your honesty.

Would you care to explain to me how salvation can ever come through a man?

I didn't say he was just a man. I only say he is not YHWH. Because he never said so. Wouldn't one do so if one was?

Suppose to tell us who you believe Christ is so there will no more misunderstanding. Please supply scripture in you detail. It would sure wold be nice to have a conversation that is out in the open and not hidden behind a cloud. You have been dodging questions like a pro.

Eerp. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I say Jesus is not YHWH because Shema says so. I don't have to know WHAT he is in order to believe WHAT he is to me. My Savior.

You guys think you can put GOD on the operating table and describe his inner workings or WHAT he is exactly? Good luck, it is anathema to the Jewish world view.

YHWH is a name of no name. In a sense he has no name because his name means HE WILL BE WHOM HE WILL BE. And you are gonna cut him up, dissect him and describe some kind of

3 hypostasis and a common OUSIA?

Please, I wasn't born yesterday. Cat Stevens told me I couldn't even make a flower grow in the '70's. I am going to answer all of these kind of questions? I am nothead. Not a pro shyster hiding

behind anything.

He was born of the virgin and the Holy Spirit. By scripture. I don't have to know what he is. More than a prophet. More than the angels. More than a holy man. Messiah. Son of God. Savior.

What else. Plz inform me and tell me why.

Honestly? I am trying to understand what you believe and where you are coming from because you are very vague. I find myself having to ask pointed questions because you leave what you post wide open to interpretation and assumption, which I refuse to do.

By the way, what do you mean by Eerp? Is this a form of the word burp? I have seen you start a couple posts in this manner.

God Bless

[JohnD]

Nein, homeboy.

Home boy? LOL. Just where do you think I come from?

Ego eimi, I am can just mean I am.... not nec. I AM. Capitals were not deliniated as opposed to lower case in the Greek.

Before Abraham existed, I exist.

Oh, so there was no need for the Jews to consider this as blasphemy when they took up stones to kill him in the next verse?

John 8:58-59 (KJV)

58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Once again you take flagrant disregard for what the Bible says so you can spout your personal opinions and call them truth. My my.

This means he was the living oracle of God, the beginning and end for all creation to get right with YHWH, the lamb and the lion sleeping nearby....

That's some interpretation you are imposing on the text. Care to back it up with scripture? I mean, anyone can look at a text and say it means the sky is green and the grass is blue... but without scriptural backing or chain references in the scriptures it means nothing more than that is what you want to believe it means. So please... reveal these texts Christendom has been missing our on for some 2000 years.

Foretold of the prophets through the ages, he even says Abraham 'saw' him in vision, dream or saying. A prophet is subject to the prophets and Yeshua was more than a prophet...

And that means what in this conversation?

Whatever the Jews thought he said they really started to jump up and down like monkeys wanting to begin chucking rocks...but he passed through their midst.

So you admit it whether you realize it or not that the Jews perceived Jesus was blaspheming because they did not believe him. My question to you is how could Jesus saying before Abraham was I am have been construed as blasphemy unless they understood he was applying the divine name YHVH (I AM) to himself?

And so Jesus lived another day in order to accomplish his mission. Next episode later.

The coward's imprimatur? Applied to Jesus? Wow. He who fights and runs away lives to fight another day... has nothing to do with Jesus moving forward to his destiny with the cross. WOW.

[JohnD]

How can God be with God if there is only one God? Shema would be modified in this case....

You are aware that the word for God elohiym is plural. Hear o Israel YHVH the God of us is one YHVH. RAMBAM (Rabbi Moses ben-Maimon) was so perturbed by this indication of the oneness of plurality that he tried to weasel in the word yachid in place of echad in the shema. There is one God but that does not mean that God is only one person or one individual. From the very beginning we have a plurality in the Godhead "let US create man in OUR own image" and so on.

And since these ARE JEWS we are speaking about, from Jesus on down the line of the first disciples and the first apostle Paul....

Shema modified would then have to be explained in some kind of memra, targum, epistle song or prophesy, oral tradition,

er, um well SOMETHING just SOMETHING...

Yeah, extrabiblical. So? And I reiterate RAMBAM a JEW was trying to refute the plurality in the Godhead dishonestly.

Because it IS after all the first commandment and principle of the known Judeo-Christian universe...

With the plural eloheynu in it rather than elohe (singular). And echad (one) being the same compound one used in declaring that Adam and Eve the TWO shall become echad (one).

And I could go on and on but do you get the drift of what I am saying?

You've already gone on and on, friend. And at each point the Bible has refuted you.

The Jews would have to explain WHY the Shema was modified or at least THAT the Shema was modified IF the Shema was modified.

And the other possibility of course...

??? The shema was never modified except to insert adonoi in place of YHVH which they are superstitiously afraid to pronounce (thinking it is a risk of violating the Decalogue "thou shalt not take the name of YHVH thy Elohiym in vain."

is that the Shema NEVER WAS modified. Come back.

On this we agree.

[JohnD]

Are we getting snippy yet? Maybe I had better do the same, just slip through the crown like a breath you wish would stay...sorry I would like to but some are getting persnickety...

You are not making as much sense as before, although maybe I am getting under your skin. I apologise and have to work a little more before beddy bye. Gnite, maybe tomorrow.

I don't know what you are talking about. I can only suppose you are resorting to some sort of dodge to avoid the fact that I am merely refuting each and every argument you raise with scripture. And you have cited none in support of what appear to be merely you own views.

And you are free to have your own opinions... just don't call them biblical when they are not.

I am actually relaxing doing this. So don't worry about how I am doing.

[JohnD]

I have a question for you...

I may be giving you too much credit in the assumption department, nothead. Do you believe the Bible is the word of God or that it only contains the word of God in portions of it?

[OneLight]

Thank you for your honesty.

Would you care to explain to me how salvation can ever come through a man?

I didn't say he was just a man. I only say he is not YHWH. Because he never said so. Wouldn't one do so if one was?

Suppose to tell us who you believe Christ is so there will no more misunderstanding. Please supply scripture in you detail. It would sure wold be nice to have a conversation that is out in the open and not hidden behind a cloud. You have been dodging questions like a pro.

Eerp. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I say Jesus is not YHWH because Shema says so. I don't have to know WHAT he is in order to believe WHAT he is to me. My Savior.

You guys think you can put GOD on the operating table and describe his inner workings or WHAT he is exactly? Good luck, it is anathema to the Jewish world view.

YHWH is a name of no name. In a sense he has no name because his name means HE WILL BE WHOM HE WILL BE. And you are gonna cut him up, dissect him and describe some kind of

3 hypostasis and a common OUSIA?

Please, I wasn't born yesterday. Cat Stevens told me I couldn't even make a flower grow in the '70's. I am going to answer all of these kind of questions? I am nothead. Not a pro shyster hiding

behind anything.

He was born of the virgin and the Holy Spirit. By scripture. I don't have to know what he is. More than a prophet. More than the angels. More than a holy man. Messiah. Son of God. Savior.

What else. Plz inform me and tell me why.

Honestly? I am trying to understand what you believe and where you are coming from because you are very vague. I find myself having to ask pointed questions because you leave what you post wide open to interpretation and assumption, which I refuse to do.

By the way, what do you mean by Eerp? Is this a form of the word burp? I have seen you start a couple posts in this manner.

God Bless

Eerp is buurrp without the b. Is that considered profanity here? In that case I will stop. I thought I answered you unvaguely. I don't know what exactly Jesus is. I don't think he is YHWH.

Eeerp means Eerp only more emphatic. Eeeerp is most emphatic. Anything else you would like to know?

Not profanity, just rude, disrespectful and caustic. I guess that comes with the attitude you have been carrying around since you have arrived. Hopefull, this will change soon as you get to know us better and don't feel so threatened.

[nebula]

The Jews interpreted Jesus to be saying He is God -

This is why they wanted to stone Him for blasphemy.

[nebula]

Youall haven't embraced my lone message none of thee. Why is that? I feel alone and beset by enemies round about. God help me. Snif.

A stranger walks in your door claiming he is here to fix your understanding of who Jesus is.

No credentials, no humility, no essence of being in the presence of the Lord, no interest in communion. Just a big head and puffed up words.

Would you receive his message?