Sleep in Jesus.

[Massorite]

I get it now....if a Christian dies, "he goes to sleep", ultimately becoming absolutely nothing, right? So, if this is true, he'd have to re-created, not resurrected because there'd be nothing left to resurrect after decades of "sleeping" in the tomb!! The only problem with that teaching is that (A) it's essentially cultic philosophy ala Jehovah's False Witnesses - it's best to stay away from ALL cultic whims - and (B) the Bible teaches not "re-creation" of a dead person, but his resurrection! But how in the universe can somerthing that doesn't then exist be resurrected? I love the Apostle Paul's assurances far better than that of any False Cult such as JFWs or SDAs. "To die is GAIN" - not ultimately NOTHINGNESS! Pulleezze! Dying & becoming nothingness is not "far better" than living for Jesus Christ!

When a person dies, whether christian or sinner, his body turns to dust. Dust is not nothing. God knows where each particle of dust for every human that ever lived is. Can he not bring them all back together in an instant and make it into a resurrected body? To the christan, a glorified body, to the sinner an industructible body made for eternal torment. Yes, it truly is a mystery. I trust God to take care of my "sleeping physical body" until it is reunited with my spirit.

Yes God can. But there will be no flesh in heaven so once we go back to dust we will never be in the flesh again and your body will never re-unit with your spirit ever again. Remember Jesus could eat fish and walk through walls. A body of flesh can not walk through walls. Salvation is all about the soul and it will be the soul that is the glorfied body and it is that souls that sleeps, not the flesh.

As for you Mr. Arthur you seem to have failed to grasp the concept of the soul. It never dies and that soul your flesh is now covering is what will be raised from the grave because guess what? Your flesh will have rotted down to nothingness. This fact is according to the word of God so are you saying that God is wrong when he says that the flesh goes back to the dust where it came from? Sounds like nothing but particles of dust to me.

[~candice~]

I get it now....if a Christian dies, "he goes to sleep", ultimately becoming absolutely nothing, right? So, if this is true, he'd have to re-created, not resurrected because there'd be nothing left to resurrect after decades of "sleeping" in the tomb!! The only problem with that teaching is that (A) it's essentially cultic philosophy ala Jehovah's False Witnesses - it's best to stay away from ALL cultic whims - and (B) the Bible teaches not "re-creation" of a dead person, but his resurrection! But how in the universe can somerthing that doesn't then exist be resurrected? I love the Apostle Paul's assurances far better than that of any False Cult such as JFWs or SDAs. "To die is GAIN" - not ultimately NOTHINGNESS! Pulleezze! Dying & becoming nothingness is not "far better" than living for Jesus Christ!

When a person dies, whether christian or sinner, his body turns to dust. Dust is not nothing. God knows where each particle of dust for every human that ever lived is. Can he not bring them all back together in an instant and make it into a resurrected body? To the christan, a glorified body, to the sinner an industructible body made for eternal torment. Yes, it truly is a mystery. I trust God to take care of my "sleeping physical body" until it is reunited with my spirit.

Yes God can. But there will be no flesh in heaven so once we go back to dust we will never be in the flesh again and your body will never re-unit with your spirit ever again. Remember Jesus could eat fish and walk through walls. A body of flesh can not walk through walls. Salvation is all about the soul and it will be the soul that is the glorfied body and it is that souls that sleeps, not the flesh.

As for you Mr. Arthur you seem to have failed to grasp the concept of the soul. It never dies and that soul your flesh is now covering is what will be raised from the grave because guess what? Your flesh will have rotted down to nothingness. This fact is according to the word of God so are you saying that God is wrong when he says that the flesh goes back to the dust where it came from? Sounds like nothing but particles of dust to me.

Come again?

Do you believe Jesus returned bodily, or just as a Spirit?

I find this dangerous territory. Jesus returned BODILY, not just as a spirit. He could be touched, and He ate. Similarily, we get glorified physical bodies at the resurrection. The resurrection is not just a spiritual thing.

[Guest shiloh357]

Yes God can. But there will be no flesh in heaven so once we go back to dust we will never be in the flesh again and your body will never re-unit with your spirit ever again. Remember Jesus could eat fish and walk through walls. A body of flesh can not walk through walls.

Wrong. The fact that Jesus could eat fish was proof that He did possess a fleshly body after his resurrection. In fact, the Scriptures imply that Jesus ate in front of them to prove He was appearing before them in a fleshly body.

Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. (Luke 24:39)

Jesus, after His resurrection, claimed to have flesh and bone.

Furthermore, Paul states that our bodies are sown in corruption, but raised in incorruption. We will never be reunited with our corrupted flesh, but this flesh will be made incorruptable and raised from the dead. Our spirits will be reunited with our bodies, albeit in an incorrupted state.

So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: (I Cor. 15:42)

Salvation is all about the soul and it will be the soul that is the glorfied body and it is that souls that sleeps, not the flesh.

Salvation is not just about the soul. The Bible speaks of salvation in terms of body, soul and spirit. That is why salvation occurs in three phases: Justification, Sanctificiation, and Glorification.

As for you Mr. Arthur you seem to have failed to grasp the concept of the soul. It never dies and that soul your flesh is now covering is what will be raised from the grave because guess what? Your flesh will have rotted down to nothingness. This fact is according to the word of God so are you saying that God is wrong when he says that the flesh goes back to the dust where it came from? Sounds like nothing but particles of dust to me.

You need to read I Cor. 15 which speaks of our bodily resurrection. The entire chapter deliniates the difference between corruptable and incorruptable flesh. The soul is the mind, will and emotions. It is the spirit that goes to be with Jesus at death. Soul and spirit are not interchangable terms. They mean different things in Scripture, particularly the New Testament.

[Massorite]

I get it now....if a Christian dies, "he goes to sleep", ultimately becoming absolutely nothing, right? So, if this is true, he'd have to re-created, not resurrected because there'd be nothing left to resurrect after decades of "sleeping" in the tomb!! The only problem with that teaching is that (A) it's essentially cultic philosophy ala Jehovah's False Witnesses - it's best to stay away from ALL cultic whims - and (B) the Bible teaches not "re-creation" of a dead person, but his resurrection! But how in the universe can somerthing that doesn't then exist be resurrected? I love the Apostle Paul's assurances far better than that of any False Cult such as JFWs or SDAs. "To die is GAIN" - not ultimately NOTHINGNESS! Pulleezze! Dying & becoming nothingness is not "far better" than living for Jesus Christ!

When a person dies, whether christian or sinner, his body turns to dust. Dust is not nothing. God knows where each particle of dust for every human that ever lived is. Can he not bring them all back together in an instant and make it into a resurrected body? To the christan, a glorified body, to the sinner an industructible body made for eternal torment. Yes, it truly is a mystery. I trust God to take care of my "sleeping physical body" until it is reunited with my spirit.

Yes God can. But there will be no flesh in heaven so once we go back to dust we will never be in the flesh again and your body will never re-unit with your spirit ever again. Remember Jesus could eat fish and walk through walls. A body of flesh can not walk through walls. Salvation is all about the soul and it will be the soul that is the glorfied body and it is that souls that sleeps, not the flesh.

As for you Mr. Arthur you seem to have failed to grasp the concept of the soul. It never dies and that soul your flesh is now covering is what will be raised from the grave because guess what? Your flesh will have rotted down to nothingness. This fact is according to the word of God so are you saying that God is wrong when he says that the flesh goes back to the dust where it came from? Sounds like nothing but particles of dust to me.

Come again?

Do you believe Jesus returned bodily, or just as a Spirit?

I find this dangerous territory. Jesus returned BODILY, not just as a spirit. He could be touched, and He ate. Similarily, we get glorified physical bodies at the resurrection. The resurrection is not just a spiritual thing.

When Jesus was raised from the grave hw had no flesh and as I said whic you didn't. Jesus could walk through walls and the word of God is very clear in that flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom of God. So what is your opinion as to how Jesus could walk through walls? Can flesh walk through walls? How is it that Jesus could change his appearance? How could some made of a substance with density pass through another substance with density? I am not saying that Jesus couldn't be touched I am saying that he could walk through walls.

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

1Cor. 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

So according to 1 Cor 15:50 the flash can not inherit that which can not be corrupted. These verses are what I base my beliefs on. Juses did not raise out of the grave in the same flesh that he died in and he didn't rise up to heaven in any flesh at all. So unless you can find me some scripture that tells us that Jesus had a glorified body made of flesh?

What is so dangerous about what these scriptures say?

[Guest shiloh357]

When Jesus was raised from the grave hw had no flesh and as I said whic you didn't. Jesus could walk through walls and the word of God is very clear in that flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom of God. So what is your opinion as to how Jesus could walk through walls? Can flesh walk through walls? How is it that Jesus could change his appearance? How could some made of a substance with density pass through another substance with density? I am not saying that Jesus couldn't be touched I am saying that he could walk through walls.

Yet Jesus proved he had flesh and bones by eating in front of the disciples. Jesus claimed to have flesh and bones. So you are really fighting a losing battle, Massorite. You are contradicting a direct statement by Jesus. The bodily resurrection of Jesus is a key tenet of the authentic Christian faith. It is not a peripheral or nonessential teaching, but is a core element of true Christianity.

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

1Cor. 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

These verses are what I base my beliefs on. Juses did not raise out of the grave in the same flesh that he died in and he didn't rise up to heaven in any flesh at all. So unless you can find me some scripture that tells us that Jesus had a glorified body made of flesh?

Jesus was raised in the exact same body because Jesus' hands and feet and side still bore the scars/wounds of the crucifixion. He allowed Thomas to touch the wounds in His hands and feet and side.

In the book of Revelation, Jesus claims to be root and offspring of David, which means that Jesus is still a Jew, and still is of King David's genealogical/biological line. Only a biological descendent of David can sit on David's Throne and Jesus is prophesied to one day sit on that throne.

The scriptures you provide do not support your claims at all.

So according to 1 Cor 15:50 the flash can not inherit that which can not be corrupted.

Taken in context, Paul's point was that man in his present state of sinfulness and decay cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, which is why there must be a change, from corruption to incorruption where the body of man is concerned. Paul does not say that we will not have bodies at all, but that our bodies are changed from corruptible to incorruptible. So, we will have celestial bodies that will have flesh and bone just like Jesus does.

What is so dangerous about what these scriptures say?

It the way you are misusing the Scriptures that is dangerous.

[Fez]

When Jesus was raised from the grave hw had no flesh and as I said whic you didn't. Jesus could walk through walls and the word of God is very clear in that flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom of God. So what is your opinion as to how Jesus could walk through walls? Can flesh walk through walls? How is it that Jesus could change his appearance? How could some made of a substance with density pass through another substance with density? I am not saying that Jesus couldn't be touched I am saying that he could walk through walls.

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

1Cor. 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.So according to 1 Cor 15:50 the flash can not inherit that which can not be corrupted. These verses are what I base my beliefs on. Juses did not raise out of the grave in the same flesh that he died in and he didn't rise up to heaven in any flesh at all. So unless you can find me some scripture that tells us that Jesus had a glorified body made of flesh?

What is so dangerous about what these scriptures say?

I think we need to examine the meaning of the statement "flesh and blood", coupled with "corruption inherit corruption"

1Co 15:49 Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven.

1Co 15:50 I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

Our perishable bodies will bear a new image, that which Jesus will give us. And yes, He did walk and eat, and talk, and was touched. The question we need to ask is what is the "image of the man of heaven". To this I have no quick answer.

[Massorite]

When Jesus was raised from the grave hw had no flesh and as I said whic you didn't. Jesus could walk through walls and the word of God is very clear in that flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom of God. So what is your opinion as to how Jesus could walk through walls? Can flesh walk through walls? How is it that Jesus could change his appearance? How could some made of a substance with density pass through another substance with density? I am not saying that Jesus couldn't be touched I am saying that he could walk through walls.

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

1Cor. 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.So according to 1 Cor 15:50 the flash can not inherit that which can not be corrupted. These verses are what I base my beliefs on. Juses did not raise out of the grave in the same flesh that he died in and he didn't rise up to heaven in any flesh at all. So unless you can find me some scripture that tells us that Jesus had a glorified body made of flesh?

What is so dangerous about what these scriptures say?

I think we need to examine the meaning of the statement "flesh and blood", coupled with "corruption inherit corruption"

1Co 15:49 Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven.

1Co 15:50 I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

Our perishable bodies will bear a new image, that which Jesus will give us. And yes, He did walk and eat, and talk, and was touched. The question we need to ask is what is the "image of the man of heaven". To this I have no quick answer.

You are correct Fez. The bible tells ua nothing about what this glorified body was made of and to assume that it was made of that which the word of God doesn't tell us is puttinhg words in the mouth of God. We should also remember that Jesus simply floated up to heaven and I didn't read anything about any jet perpulsion going on there did you? Elijah's body was made of flesh and God sent a cheriot to pick him up and the bible says that Enoch was "taken" by God but Jesus, he just floated up. The fact of the matter is that we have no idea what the substance of the body of Jesus was. So I have to fall back on my safty net.

"If it is not written in the bible then it is not" If God wanted us to know if the risen Jesus was made of flesh he would have said so.

That should salve that problem.

[Guest shiloh357]

You are correct Fez. The bible tells ua nothing about what this glorified body was made of and to assume that it was made of that which the word of God doesn't tell us is puttinhg words in the mouth of God.

Actually the Bible is very clear that it will be a physical body. The ONLY difference the Bible makes is that it will be incorruptable. It does not say that we will be disembodied spirits. We will have flesh and bone just like Jesus does.

We should also remember that Jesus simply floated up to heaven and I didn't read anything about any jet perpulsion going on there did you?

The Bible does not say that Jesus simply floated up into heaven. It says Jesus ascended bodily into heaven.

Elijah's body was made of flesh and God sent a cheriot to pick him up and the bible says that Enoch was "taken" by God but Jesus, he just floated up. The fact of the matter is that we have no idea what the substance of the body of Jesus was.

The Bible does not say either man just floated up. You are penciling that into the Bible. You are the one adding to what the Scripture does not say.

Jesus said His body was made of flesh and bone. Was Jesus wrong??

So I have to fall back on my safty net.

"If it is not written in the bible then it is not" If God wanted us to know if the risen Jesus was made of flesh he would have said so.

That should salve that problem.

But it is written in the Scripture. You simply don't want to face up to it.

[Hawkins]

I believe this sleep is a state of no consciousness.Is this truth?

I think so. But with an exception, those wicked are not allowed to enter His rest.

Hebrews 3:11

So I declared on oath in my anger, 'They shall never enter my rest.'

[Chr Commando]

No, there is no such thing as "soul sleep."

Yes Jesus declared Lazarus was only asleep. But, his physical body lay dead in the tomb. The little girl a man came to Jesus and said was dieing was claimed dead as well by the time jesus arrived, but he said no, she was only sleeping.

Fact is, Lazarus was physically dead, and so was that girl. The difference between them then and us now?

As the story Jesus told of the richman and lazarus, there were two compartments to the OT Hell. One of torment, the other of comfort. Why? OT Saints could not go to Heaven, as the ultimate price for Salvation had not been paid. Animal sacrifice only "covered" sin, but never took it away.

This is why the richman from the torment side, could see Lazarus at rest in the bosom of Abraham and even talked with Abraham.

After Jesus rose from the dead and ascended to Heaven, now- "to be absent from the body, present with the lord."

so Lazarus and the girl were both in the comfort side of Hell- (Paradise). "Today, thou shalt be with Me in Paradise".

As for Jesus' perfected Glorified body after being raised from the dead, it was a body and was physically real. But... transfigured. Why? Even tho He'd passed thru a door, He approached Thomas and told him to handle him, touch His wounds and BELIEVE. So, it was His old original body, but in a transfigured state.

also, Jesus declared- "ye do er, for man shall be as the Angels are". And then you have the spirits of dead Saints who appear under an altar at the opening of the fifth Seal in Revelation. They'd been there awhile already, because it declares they cry out for God to help thier loved ones still on earth, and how long God will take to avenge them.

well, it states, God calms them, and gives them raiment- (clothing) to wear. You cannot put clothing on a so called body that has no solid structural form.

Jesus spoke of both people being "asleep", as His intention was to raise them both from the dead. The original ancient meaning of the word used for "asleep" means deceased, dead, etc. Later translation groups added all the other interpretations to its meaning.

God bless!!