Visits to hell and heaven versus Biblical doctrine

[Miss Elly]

Precisely. Our faith in Christ is not based on a person's dream, vision or "revelation" beyond Holy & settled Scripture. Jude is quite explicit on this: he says that the faith "was once delivered (Greek, for all time) to the saints." Otherwise why give us a completed, reliable, authoritative, once-for-all-time-delivered Word of Truth? Amen & Amen! "On Christ the solid Rock I'll stand, all other ground is...................."

I thank you.

The Living Word of God, which is the Bible, is all I need to know. That is so true!!!

I have left that church by the way. I received 48 phone calls in 2 days from the "Prophet" and his wife, the "Evangelist"... Almost made me lose my mind. They assured me that in that church they are going to heaven and that they do not want me to leave the church otherwise I may lose my salvation.

I am grateful for the Bible that I was able to read for myself and that assures me of what to do and how to be saved.

Thank you all and be blessed for all your kind support, prayers, and comments.

Am praying for you!!!!! Be assured you are God's child and they or anyone else cannot take that from you. If they really were obedient to God and had the right spirit (at the church), they would have told you they loved you and would pray for you, not condemn you to hell for not going to their church.

[Openly Curious]

'Hawkins' date='Apr 15 2010,

'Openly Curious' date='Apr 1 2010,

I have never once found any such claims to be biblical but just the opposite. They claim God has chosen them special to go tell of their journey's or trips to heaven or hell. These seer's claimed alot of people are going to get caught up simply for not paying their tithes. I know what the word says about the subject of tithing and offering but this is being told to Christians who I believe for the most part are doing it but they are told that many would trip over it go figure. I'm sure that scared the life out of the hearers to pay their tithes and offerings to their ministry.

No where in the Word do you find such journey's, visions and trips to heaven or hell except for John the Revelator. There are no spiritual gifts that covers these type of things.

If these type of visions do not coincide with the Bible 100% then you are being told a lie and being led astray for a reason most likely the sell of their books.

2 Peter 1:19-21---We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

vs.20) Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

vs.21) For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

On the other hand, the root of Christianity comes from witnessing, witnessing plays an important role in Christianity till today. Moreover, many will deny them and their coming...I mean how will you be able to recognise them and distinguish them from what you think to be the liars?!

The root of Christianity does not come from witnessing. The root of Christianity was foretold to us in.....Isaiah 11:1-5,10; Matthew 1:6 Zechariah 3:8; 6:12......For it was Jesus who was the Root and the offspring of Jesse who begat King David. Again it is Jesus who is the root of our Christianity and not witnessing. Do I believe in witnessing?Yes, I do any play, outreach of any kind as long as it is Biblical and if it is not I will turn away. I saw what was called the "Passion Play" and thought it was very Biblical and heart stirring.

I will deny anything where you can't match what is portrayed in the Word. Out of curiosity do you have Scripture that shows the visits to hell and heaven in Biblical doctrine which is what the thread is about.

I find no where in the Word of such a witness and it is my opinion that this is exra-biblical. I will reject false prophets and teachers who come in sheep's clothing and on the inside are ravenous wolves. They talk the talk but they are not in the truth though they appear to be but they are only there to destroy the sheep of God's pasture.

I will be able to discern who is and who is not by knowing the Word of as King David said, Thy Word have I hid in my heart that I might not sin against thee, also King David said, Thy Word is a lamp unto my path.

Hebrews 5:14--But strong meat belongeth to them that "are of full age" even those who by reason of use have "their senses" "Exercised To Discern"

both "Good and evil"

You asked how can one tell if someone is false. Well it's like this verse says, that strong meat belongs to those who are of full age speaking of those who are mature in the Lord having put away childish things. Hebrews 6:1-3 speaks further about this maturity meaning "perfection."

then it says, even those who by reason of use have "their senses" "Exercised" to Discern" both "Good" and "evil."

It talk about those having their "senses" meaning something you would sense or feel in your Spirit and know is against the Word but these have exercised (worked out) to help to discern (what is true and false) "to discern both good and evil"

The Bible teaches us to identify by the fruits they bore instead of relying on our own subjective knowledge, and to test their spirits. Why not just listen to what God says?

The Word tells us that we would know them by their fruits. Meaning if someone or a group of people do not portray the fruit of the Spirit as told to us in Galatians 5 and instead you can only see the unfruitful works of darkness in their personal life it is plan they are not walking in the Spirit and truth.

As far as relying on our own subjective knowledge, and to test their spirits. Why not just listen to what God says?

Sometimes our opinions do not line up with what God has said in his Word. The Word says, that the truth will set you free and free indeed. Now I can let this truth be my opinion because it is what the Lord has said.

I notice that you are saying to me, that I should not test the spirits but instead why don't I just listen to what God says.

The way I've understood is that you have instucted that we should not test the spirits when that is wrong as the Lord told us to do it in. 1 John 4:1-6 Not everything that is said is the voice of God.

[7thseal]

To go with what Agua said there also cannot be anybody "burning in hell" yet as nobody has been judged yet.

Perhaps you may be confusing hell with the lake of fire, though judgment hasn't come yet concerning the second death (lake of fire) indeed many remain in hell until that time comes.

Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

[bc41129]

Lately at my church there has been lots of talks about books written by various people about the Lord Jesus taking them out of this world and taking them to visit hell or heaven. As some of you may know, Mary K. Baxter's A Divine Revelation of Hell and a A Divine revelation of Heaven are bestsellers (since the 1980s). The lady was taken by the Lord Jesus, according to her, over a period of 30 days to visit hell annd heaven. In her book, she gives detailed descriptions of these two places. She also quotes the Lord Jesus word by word.

The lady was invited last fall to speak at my church.

Another book that is mentioned regularly during Sunday sermons is Heaven is So Real (By Korean American writer Choo Thomas). She also said that the Lord Jesus took her to visit Heaven many times and she even saw her own mother burning in hell for never having heard of Jesus.

Finally, there are the experiences of a Korean pastor (Baptize by Blazing Fire 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5) about his daily trips to hell (from 2006 until today in 2010) and the visits to hell and heaven that members of his church experienced during a 30-day all night prayer vigil.

My question is, how do these revelations fit with Biblical doctrine?

Personally, I have been feeling uncomfortable with certain parts of their experiences. The Bible, the Word of God, should be final say on everything. Yet these experiences claim to "complete" in more details the "vague " descriptions of the Lord Jesus about hell and heaven (these are not my words, but that's what the leaders at my church explained kindly to me when I raised questions).

Now these stories are mentioned more often than Biblical descriptions at the church. Also, a lot of the preaching focuses on how we can lose our salvation based on what these books say. Example: in Baptize by Blazing Fire, the pastor said he saw many Christians burning in hell for one important sin: spending and selling on Sundays (not keeping the sabbath). Not tithing regularly was also one action that sends lots of Christians to hell.

Please, I am a new Christian, but would love to hear from other Christians about this.

God bless and protect you all.

[bc41129]

Lately at my church there has been lots of talks about books written by various people about the Lord Jesus taking them out of this world and taking them to visit hell or heaven. As some of you may know, Mary K. Baxter's A Divine Revelation of Hell and a A Divine revelation of Heaven are bestsellers (since the 1980s). The lady was taken by the Lord Jesus, according to her, over a period of 30 days to visit hell annd heaven. In her book, she gives detailed descriptions of these two places. She also quotes the Lord Jesus word by word.

The lady was invited last fall to speak at my church.

Another book that is mentioned regularly during Sunday sermons is Heaven is So Real (By Korean American writer Choo Thomas). She also said that the Lord Jesus took her to visit Heaven many times and she even saw her own mother burning in hell for never having heard of Jesus.

Finally, there are the experiences of a Korean pastor (Baptize by Blazing Fire 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5) about his daily trips to hell (from 2006 until today in 2010) and the visits to hell and heaven that members of his church experienced during a 30-day all night prayer vigil.

My question is, how do these revelations fit with Biblical doctrine?

Personally, I have been feeling uncomfortable with certain parts of their experiences. The Bible, the Word of God, should be final say on everything. Yet these experiences claim to "complete" in more details the "vague " descriptions of the Lord Jesus about hell and heaven (these are not my words, but that's what the leaders at my church explained kindly to me when I raised questions).

Now these stories are mentioned more often than Biblical descriptions at the church. Also, a lot of the preaching focuses on how we can lose our salvation based on what these books say. Example: in Baptize by Blazing Fire, the pastor said he saw many Christians burning in hell for one important sin: spending and selling on Sundays (not keeping the sabbath). Not tithing regularly was also one action that sends lots of Christians to hell.

Please, I am a new Christian, but would love to hear from other Christians about this.

God bless and protect you all.

[bc41129]

Lately at my church there has been lots of talks about books written by various people about the Lord Jesus taking them out of this world and taking them to visit hell or heaven. As some of you may know, Mary K. Baxter's A Divine Revelation of Hell and a A Divine revelation of Heaven are bestsellers (since the 1980s). The lady was taken by the Lord Jesus, according to her, over a period of 30 days to visit hell annd heaven. In her book, she gives detailed descriptions of these two places. She also quotes the Lord Jesus word by word.

The lady was invited last fall to speak at my church.

Another book that is mentioned regularly during Sunday sermons is Heaven is So Real (By Korean American writer Choo Thomas). She also said that the Lord Jesus took her to visit Heaven many times and she even saw her own mother burning in hell for never having heard of Jesus.

Finally, there are the experiences of a Korean pastor (Baptize by Blazing Fire 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5) about his daily trips to hell (from 2006 until today in 2010) and the visits to hell and heaven that members of his church experienced during a 30-day all night prayer vigil.

My question is, how do these revelations fit with Biblical doctrine?

Personally, I have been feeling uncomfortable with certain parts of their experiences. The Bible, the Word of God, should be final say on everything. Yet these experiences claim to "complete" in more details the "vague " descriptions of the Lord Jesus about hell and heaven (these are not my words, but that's what the leaders at my church explained kindly to me when I raised questions).

Now these stories are mentioned more often than Biblical descriptions at the church. Also, a lot of the preaching focuses on how we can lose our salvation based on what these books say. Example: in Baptize by Blazing Fire, the pastor said he saw many Christians burning in hell for one important sin: spending and selling on Sundays (not keeping the sabbath). Not tithing regularly was also one action that sends lots of Christians to hell.

Please, I am a new Christian, but would love to hear from other Christians about this.

God bless and protect you all.

[Hawkins]

Now these stories are mentioned more often than Biblical descriptions at the church. Also, a lot of the preaching focuses on how we can lose our salvation based on what these books say. Example: in Baptize by Blazing Fire, the pastor said he saw many Christians burning in hell for one important sin: spending and selling on Sundays (not keeping the sabbath). Not tithing regularly was also one action that sends lots of Christians to hell.

Please, I am a new Christian, but would love to hear from other Christians about this.

God bless and protect you all.

Basically there's no hell fire at the moment as we speak. Hell fire only happens after the final judgment. Then death and Hades will be burned to the Lake of Fire with the wicked as well as Satan and his angels.

But their visions/dreams may refer to what the future is. God can give out visions about the future.

Acts 2:17

" 'In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.

You can also JUDGE by comparing what they said to what the scripture says. Yet sometimes (alot of times here ) it is out of people's own pride to think that they can understand the Bible 100% to judge. Yet NO ONE, NO ONE can understand the Bible 100%, especially the Book of Revelation related topics which actually are waiting to be revealed. They will be revealed bit by bit as time approaches the end of days, and as a testimony that the Holy Bible is truly from the all-knowing God. To simply put, the Book of Revelation is still open ended, not to be amended but to be revealed.

So the best way is to follow God's teaching. That is, 1)to speculate the fruits they bare, 2) to test their spirit to see if they are from Christ (to see if their doctrines are denying Christ directly or indirectly). If you can't speculate from these 2 points, leave it to the hand of our Lord instead of insisting on judging by yourself.

Matthew 7:15-20

15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

1 John 4:1-3

1Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

Edited May 4, 2010 by Hawkins

[Guest]

.... a lot of the preaching focuses on how we can lose our salvation based on what these books say. Example.... the pastor said he saw many Christians burning in hell for one important sin: spending and selling on Sundays (not keeping the sabbath). Not tithing regularly was also one action that sends lots of Christians to....

The Accuser

And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Revelation 12:8-9

And His End

And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:7-10

>>>>>()<<<<<

The Sin

Of sin, because they believe not on me;

John 16:9

The Gift

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:16

And The Believer's End

And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

Revelation 22:3-4

>>>>>()<<<<<

Be Blessed Beloved Daughter Of The KING

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Revelation 21:3-4

Love, Your Brother Joe

[Arthur Durnan]

Stay with Holy Scripture on both heaven & hell. The former in Revelation 21 & 22; the latter in Luke 16:19-31. BLESSINGS IN JESUS!

[Massorite]

Now these stories are mentioned more often than Biblical descriptions at the church. Also, a lot of the preaching focuses on how we can lose our salvation based on what these books say. Example: in Baptize by Blazing Fire, the pastor said he saw many Christians burning in hell for one important sin: spending and selling on Sundays (not keeping the sabbath). Not tithing regularly was also one action that sends lots of Christians to hell.

Please, I am a new Christian, but would love to hear from other Christians about this.

God bless and protect you all.

Basically there's no hell fire at the moment as we speak. Hell fire only happens after the final judgment. Then death and Hades will be burned to the Lake of Fire with the wicked as well as Satan and his angels.

But their visions/dreams may refer to what the future is. God can give out visions about the future.

Acts 2:17

" 'In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.

You can also JUDGE by comparing what they said to what the scripture says. Yet sometimes (alot of times here ) it is out of people's own pride to think that they can understand the Bible 100% to judge. Yet NO ONE, NO ONE can understand the Bible 100%, especially the Book of Revelation related topics which actually are waiting to be revealed. They will be revealed bit by bit as time approaches the end of days, and as a testimony that the Holy Bible is truly from the all-knowing God. To simply put, the Book of Revelation is still open ended, not to be amended but to be revealed.

So the best way is to follow God's teaching. That is, 1)to speculate the fruits they bare, 2) to test their spirit to see if they are from Christ (to see if their doctrines are denying Christ directly or indirectly). If you can't speculate from these 2 points, leave it to the hand of our Lord instead of insisting on judging by yourself.

Matthew 7:15-20

15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

1 John 4:1-3

1Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

So where in the bible does it say "There is no hell fire at this time"? All of these scriptures you have quoted say nothing about whether or not hell has any fire or not.

Gehenna is a place of burning just as Jesus said so where in the bible does it say that Gehenna is or is not a part of hell. And the Greek meaning of the word "Hades" is "the place of departed souls" ans has nothing to do with any hell fire according to the meaning of the word Hades.

According to Jesus the rich man was in hell and in tormented because he was burning and if your defense is to say that the parable of the rich man and Lazarus was just a store of make believe then please show me which scripture tells us that it was in deed a story with no value or truth.

You see according to the words of Jesus there is a hell and it is a place of burning and it does exist at this time and Hades is not the same place as hell. Thanks to King James the three Greek words that spoke of three different sections of "hell" the lower reaches of the earth were changed to the word hell in the interest of making it easier to understand that bible. But when he did this he eliminated the word "Torturous" from the bible and brought confusion as to the idea of what we now call hell. When Samuel was "disquieted" IE woken up and brought up from the grave was he on fire? No! Which tells us that the hell we know is not the same as "the place of departed souls".

If it is not written in the bible it is not.