To Debate or Not....that is the question.

[~candice~]

1Pe 3:15 but sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and be ready always to give an answer to everyone who asks you a reason of the hope in you, with meekness and fear;

I would ask that you read and consider this scripture you quoted again...along with what I said about debate and confrontation... as it seems this verse says nothing about debate...all it says is to answer someones question, which is simple enough. In fact answer with meekness and fear!! Which is the approach I have tried to say we should have when speaking/communicating with others. It is all about attitude and putting others before onesself...I must decrease and He must increase. An attitude that does not come from the flesh (Gal. 5:19-21)

IT is difficult to communicate in mere words...in fact, very difficult. But I would hope that a Christian site, where I would imagine that most posters are Christian, would endeavor to 'act' as Christ would when sharing. Blessings to you...

I don't really know what point you are trying to make here. Are you saying that no debates are conducted in meekness and fear, or that they all are from the flesh

.

I have seen christians fruitfully respond to atheist retorts, using grace, love, humility and empowered with the Holy Spirit.

Any christian must always season all their words with grace and love. In and out of debate. We should be an example of Christ. I'm not advocating anything other than this.

It may be that you and I see debate differently....I just see it as usually from the flesh...as I spoke about in my original post...so we have to be careful. The word debate even comes from the Old French

debat

...which is from the latin meaning "to fight". I just think debate usually incites and invites the flesh (Gal. 5:19-21). Altho, similar to what u said, I have been in some friendly debates with friends or some other people....with much respect and humility.

Not all 'debates' are of the flesh... indeed we should be walking in the spirit and not in the flesh, always!

[south]

"Intelligent people are always open to new ideas. In fact, they look for them." Prov. 18:15

Just as a matter of interest, where did the scripture come from, the message?

Pro 18:15 An intelligent heart acquires knowledge, and the ear of the wise seeks knowledge - ESV There is a big difference between the two?

No judgment from me, but it changes the heart of your post, does it not?

Nope...not at all....the post is not only about this...in fact the main point is about attitude and approach. However, I do not see a big difference. "The ear of the wise seeks knowledge"..means to me that they are open to knowledge that they do not already have....thus, open to new things/ideas. So, you like debate? It appears so...

What I always notice is that some people are so eloquent about how people should post and what their attitude should be about this and that. But try to make statements that don't match theirs and they are the first ones to break their dos and don'ts. Funny isn't it?

And by the way, I don't agree that the only choice is to argue with people who don't believe you're right. I carefully choose who I argue with. Time is too valuable.

I like how Proverbs 18:15 is stated in NIV "The heart of the discerning acquires knowledge, for the ears of the wise seek it out." The problem with many intelligent people in the world is that they are too open to new ideas, but they lack discernment.

Blessings...South

[Fez]

"Intelligent people are always open to new ideas. In fact, they look for them." Prov. 18:15

Just as a matter of interest, where did the scripture come from, the message?

Pro 18:15 An intelligent heart acquires knowledge, and the ear of the wise seeks knowledge - ESV There is a big difference between the two?

No judgment from me, but it changes the heart of your post, does it not?

Nope...not at all....the post is not only about this...in fact the main point is about attitude and approach. However, I do not see a big difference. "The ear of the wise seeks knowledge"..means to me that they are open to knowledge that they do not already have....thus, open to new things/ideas. So, you like debate? It appears so...

What I always notice is that some people are so eloquent about how people should post and what their attitude should be about this and that. But try to make statements that don't match theirs and they are the first ones to break their dos and don'ts. Funny isn't it?

And by the way, I don't agree that the only choice is to argue with people who don't believe you're right. I carefully choose who I argue with. Time is too valuable.

I like how Proverbs 18:15 is stated in NIV "The heart of the discerning acquires knowledge, for the ears of the wise seek it out." The problem with many intelligent people in the world is that they are too open to new ideas, but they lack discernment.

Blessings...South

Well put south, andy and Dave.

My point exactly. While the Op was sound in it's intention, (and interesting to read - and sparked debate - which is good, because iron does sharpen iron) I like to base my debates on scripture, and the knowledge of scripture. New ideas are a minefield, and some churches with "new ideas" have gone way off track. (we recently read about a church that thinks it is a good "idea", to bring dogs to church and pray for them) But when it comes to the Bible, and God, there is really "nothing new under the sun".

Now I am not saying that ideas are a bad thing at all. As in "hey I have an idea"...... Where would we be without them in the scientific field for instance.

Bible wise? I go for aquiring knowledge, as south said

The problem with many intelligent people in the world is that they are too open to new ideas, but they lack discernment.

Blessings

[Botz]

1Pe 3:15 but sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and be ready always to give an answer to everyone who asks you a reason of the hope in you, with meekness and fear;

I would ask that you read and consider this scripture you quoted again...along with what I said about debate and confrontation... as it seems this verse says nothing about debate...all it says is to answer someones question, which is simple enough. In fact answer with meekness and fear!! Which is the approach I have tried to say we should have when speaking/communicating with others. It is all about attitude and putting others before onesself...I must decrease and He must increase. An attitude that does not come from the flesh (Gal. 5:19-21)

IT is difficult to communicate in mere words...in fact, very difficult. But I would hope that a Christian site, where I would imagine that most posters are Christian, would endeavor to 'act' as Christ would when sharing. Blessings to you...

I don't really know what point you are trying to make here. Are you saying that no debates are conducted in meekness and fear, or that they all are from the flesh

.

I have seen christians fruitfully respond to atheist retorts, using grace, love, humility and empowered with the Holy Spirit.

Any christian must always season all their words with grace and love. In and out of debate. We should be an example of Christ. I'm not advocating anything other than this.

It may be that you and I see debate differently....I just see it as usually from the flesh...as I spoke about in my original post...so we have to be careful. The word debate even comes from the Old French

debat

...which is from the latin meaning "to fight". I just think debate usually incites and invites the flesh (Gal. 5:19-21). Altho, similar to what u said, I have been in some friendly debates with friends or some other people....with much respect and humility.

Hello missjenny, welcome to Worthy.

I think the point is that there are debates and arguments in our lives the whole time...it just depends how meaningful or fruitful they are. If we are walking in the Spirit and being led by the Spirit, we will constantly double-chick ourselves and keep adjusting our attitudes if we get into the flesh....which happens to all of us..but it is a constant learning/growing process.

Whenever I look to debate and argue I take both Jesus and Paul as outstanding examples of how to conduct oneself...and when you read of their ministries, it seems it was a constant 'bataille des mots'. Paul in particular strove and wrestled with his hearers...determined to demonstrate from the Scriptures, the veracity of his gospel.

I take your point that here on Worthy, we are all in different stages of our walk with the L-rd, and it is quite true, that at times rather than pick up on every thing we disagree with, we should have the grace and discernment to only address the more important aspects of what someone is writing about, particularly if they could really do with encouragement rather than constant correction. I think it is also true that you gradually discover with whom you can have serious debate without offence being taken....iron sharpening iron.

Best regards. Botz

[Matthitjah]

1Pe 3:15 but sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and be ready always to give an answer to everyone who asks you a reason of the hope in you, with meekness and fear;

I would ask that you read and consider this scripture you quoted again...along with what I said about debate and confrontation... as it seems this verse says nothing about debate...all it says is to answer someones question, which is simple enough. In fact answer with meekness and fear!! Which is the approach I have tried to say we should have when speaking/communicating with others. It is all about attitude and putting others before onesself...I must decrease and He must increase. An attitude that does not come from the flesh (Gal. 5:19-21)

IT is difficult to communicate in mere words...in fact, very difficult. But I would hope that a Christian site, where I would imagine that most posters are Christian, would endeavor to 'act' as Christ would when sharing. Blessings to you...

Grace to you,

Christ was pretty rough some times;

Mr

[missjenny]

1Pe 3:15 but sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and be ready always to give an answer to everyone who asks you a reason of the hope in you, with meekness and fear;

I would ask that you read and consider this scripture you quoted again...along with what I said about debate and confrontation... as it seems this verse says nothing about debate...all it says is to answer someones question, which is simple enough. In fact answer with meekness and fear!! Which is the approach I have tried to say we should have when speaking/communicating with others. It is all about attitude and putting others before onesself...I must decrease and He must increase. An attitude that does not come from the flesh (Gal. 5:19-21)

IT is difficult to communicate in mere words...in fact, very difficult. But I would hope that a Christian site, where I would imagine that most posters are Christian, would endeavor to 'act' as Christ would when sharing. Blessings to you...

I don't really know what point you are trying to make here. Are you saying that no debates are conducted in meekness and fear, or that they all are from the flesh

.

I have seen christians fruitfully respond to atheist retorts, using grace, love, humility and empowered with the Holy Spirit.

Any christian must always season all their words with grace and love. In and out of debate. We should be an example of Christ. I'm not advocating anything other than this.

It may be that you and I see debate differently....I just see it as usually from the flesh...as I spoke about in my original post...so we have to be careful. The word debate even comes from the Old French

debat

...which is from the latin meaning "to fight". I just think debate usually incites and invites the flesh (Gal. 5:19-21). Altho, similar to what u said, I have been in some friendly debates with friends or some other people....with much respect and humility.

Hello missjenny, welcome to Worthy.

I think the point is that there are debates and arguments in our lives the whole time...it just depends how meaningful or fruitful they are. If we are walking in the Spirit and being led by the Spirit, we will constantly double-chick ourselves and keep adjusting our attitudes if we get into the flesh....which happens to all of us..but it is a constant learning/growing process.

Whenever I look to debate and argue I take both Jesus and Paul as outstanding examples of how to conduct oneself...and when you read of their ministries, it seems it was a constant 'bataille des mots'. Paul in particular strove and wrestled with his hearers...determined to demonstrate from the Scriptures, the veracity of his gospel.

I take your point that here on Worthy, we are all in different stages of our walk with the L-rd, and it is quite true, that at times rather than pick up on every thing we disagree with, we should have the grace and discernment to only address the more important aspects of what someone is writing about, particularly if they could really do with encouragement rather than constant correction. I think it is also true that you gradually discover with whom you can have serious debate without offence being taken....iron sharpening iron.

Best regards. Botz

Hi Botz, Thank you for your input!! I have been on other C-forums as well and see how debate can get vicious or in the flesh...in fact often so. So, because I believe debate...which can easily get into who is right and who is wrong ego trip...AND especially since the very close cousins of debate (Gal.5:20-21) are already prevalent in our flesh...that we not enter into any discourse with the intent to debate...unless of course, one's definition of it is very different from the one I stated and referred to.

I have seen in my almost 33 yrs, as a Christian adult in the church, the divisions get more and more prevalent...and even though there will be those that respond to this by saying that they have to defend the faith and they have to speak up for truth....well, I say, that that is precisly why there are soOoOo many divisions in the church....over 500 and counting...because everyone THINKS THEY have the truth. Most of Pauls writings were about how to create peace and understanding and getting away from the flesh when someone is different from us....not how to debate better. If we were under the law and therefore had to be precise, then I can see debate being a useful thing...however, grace means that I don't have to believe exactly like someone else, as Christ made me right with Him and not my consistant obediance to the law. I like the iron sharpens iron, however, I don't think it means to set out to be abrasive (I don't think u meant that either, by the way).

Thanks for listening to my ramble...

missj

[enoob57]

Guarding our minds, yet growing!

You guys are great! Just reading and absorbing what each brings to the table of the Lord is as unique as the flavors He has put in the seed. Ms J thank you for your efforts to the important need of honoring one another by being slow to speak and quick to hear. If we open our hearts To our Lord first then to others with this understanding

2 Cor 12:19

19 Again, do you think that we excuse ourselves to you? We speak before God in Christ. But we do all things, beloved, for your edification.

NKJV

We all want to be like Christ! If you don't you should for it is life and glory unto The Father. Love Steven

[Matthitjah]

All Grace and no Truth maketh Jack a dull boy.

[missjenny]

All Grace and no Truth maketh Jack a dull boy.

Matt...I hope you don't mind me using this as an example...

Anyway, it is not between grace or truth. It is still truth, but it is in HOW it is presented.

"We try and live in such a way that no one will be hindered from finding the Lord by the way we act, and so no one can find fault with our ministry. In everything we do we try and show that we are true ministers of God." 2 Cor. 6:3

"Follow God's example in everything you do, because you are His dear children. Live a life filled with love for others, following the example of Christ, Who loved you and gave Himself as a sacrifice...for though your hearts were once full of darkness, now you are full of light from the Lord, and your behavior should show it...Try to find out what is pleasing to the Lord." Eph. 5:1-10

"Remind everyone of these things, and command them in God's name to stop fighting over words. Such arguments are useless and they can ruin those who hear them. Work hard so God can approve you. Be a good worker who does not need to be ashamed and correctly explains the word of truth. Avoid godless, foolish talk that lead to more and more ungodliness." 2 Tim. 2:14-18

"My brothers and sisters, be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to get angry. Your anger can never make things right in God's sight." James 1:19-20

"If you claim to be religious but don't control your tongue, you are just fooling yourself, and your religion is worthless." James 1:26

"So also, the tongue is a small thing, but what enormous damage it can do. A tiny spark can set a whole forest on fire." James 3:5

"If you wise and understand God's ways, live a life of steady goodness so that only good deeds will pour forth. And if you don't brag about the good you do, then you will be truly wise!" James 3:13

"The wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure. It is also peace-loving, gentle at all times and willing to yield to others." James 3:17

"So think clearly and exercise self-control. Look forward to the special blessings that will come to you at the return of Jesus Christ...It is God's will that your good lives should silence those who make accusations against you." 1 Peter 1:13, 2:15

Bless you...

[Matthitjah]

All Grace and no Truth maketh Jack a dull boy.

Matt...I hope you don't mind me using this as an example...

Anyway, it is not between grace or truth. It is still truth, but it is in HOW it is presented.

"We try and live in such a way that no one will be hindered from finding the Lord by the way we act, and so no one can find fault with our ministry. In everything we do we try and show that we are true ministers of God." 2 Cor. 6:3

"Follow God's example in everything you do, because you are His dear children. Live a life filled with love for others, following the example of Christ, Who loved you and gave Himself as a sacrifice...for though your hearts were once full of darkness, now you are full of light from the Lord, and your behavior should show it...Try to find out what is pleasing to the Lord." Eph. 5:1-10

"Remind everyone of these things, and command them in God's name to stop fighting over words. Such arguments are useless and they can ruin those who hear them. Work hard so God can approve you. Be a good worker who does not need to be ashamed and correctly explains the word of truth. Avoid godless, foolish talk that lead to more and more ungodliness." 2 Tim. 2:14-18

"My brothers and sisters, be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to get angry. Your anger can never make things right in God's sight." James 1:19-20

"If you claim to be religious but don't control your tongue, you are just fooling yourself, and your religion is worthless." James 1:26

"So also, the tongue is a small thing, but what enormous damage it can do. A tiny spark can set a whole forest on fire." James 3:5

"If you wise and understand God's ways, live a life of steady goodness so that only good deeds will pour forth. And if you don't brag about the good you do, then you will be truly wise!" James 3:13

"The wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure. It is also peace-loving, gentle at all times and willing to yield to others." James 3:17

"So think clearly and exercise self-control. Look forward to the special blessings that will come to you at the return of Jesus Christ...It is God's will that your good lives should silence those who make accusations against you." 1 Peter 1:13, 2:15

Bless you...

Grace to you,

The Lord came full of Grace and Truth. Grace first because it is the loving kindness of the Lord that leadeth a man to repentance. This does not negate Truth and Truth should not be left in the dust for the sake of Grace. Otherwise we become unbalanced and our message becomes devoid of any impact. We can allow our human emotions to lead and believe that Grace must be extended on every circumstance. Then we will arrive at positons like Universal Salvation and the Ordaining of Openly Unrepentant Homosexual Leaders and the acceptance of such in Parishoners. After all, we wouldn't want to offend with unnecessary argumentation.

Peace,

Dave