The Book of Life

[nebula]

Ut oh nebula..you have created yet another acronym..PTLS

I couldn't remember its official title.

[nebula]

But if you look at the marker at an angle, you see it for what it truly is, a column or tube. Not a circle or rectangle. We don't live in a 2-D world.

The Word must be viewed in the same way. It has to be viewed from all angles. If you're looking at it from only one angle, you're not seeing everything.

There is only one Truth. To deny that is to deny the Truth.

No, we do not live in a 2-D world. Neither are we four-legged animals that grow wool, but that did not stop God form calling us sheep.

It's an illustration to make the point that God sees beyond what we can see.

Or do you believe we see clearly and not in part? (1 Cor. 13).

We live in 3-D, or 4-D if you include time (which we can't visualize), but our orientation in time is limited - like being on a time line that can only move in one direction, whereas God is not bound by the time line segment we are bound to. God also encompasses many more dimensions that scientists have been recently discovered exist.

What does the marker look like in 4 dimensions? In 5? Can we see that?

Thus, the illustration - scaled down to a perspective we can understand - how god sees beyond what we can see.

[nebula]

And the truth is that there appears to be scriptures to back up both camps. I think the apparent contradiction is really a prize for those who dig deeper to discern the Lord's truth in all this. IMHO.

You got it!

[EricH]

Where does absolute (non-contingent) free will exist any place in the universe?

my guess would be the human heart!

e

Even there it cannot exist.

[e lansing]

Where does absolute (non-contingent) free will exist any place in the universe?

my guess would be the human heart!

e

Even there it cannot exist.

Then what is sin? Is it GODS WILL? you must believe that God created the mess humans made, if there is no such thing as free will. Satan must also be Gods will and creation, because angels have no free will either, right!

If there is no such thing as free will, there is no such thing as sin! God cannot sin against Himself, and all sin is agaisnt Him!

e

[Ovedya]

Hebrews 3:12-14 MKJV

12 Take heed, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. 13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called today, lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,

Can brothers depart? Yes they can. Are we partakers of Christ? Yes, IF we persevere.

Interesting that the conditions which you claim exist in the verse by virtue of the words you emphasized are directly contradicted by a phrase which you did not emphasize. So what's the condition of the believer who "departs from the living God"? Does he lose his salvation? The text does not say that. You have to draw that conclusion outside the confines of the verse. The condition of the believer who departs from the living God is being "hardened through the deceitfulness of sin."

How is a believer (or ex-believer?) who has departed from the living God and hardened through the deceitfulness of sin, saved, by your reckoning?

Because salvation is not dependent upon the temporary condition of a believer in a fallen state. God does not differentiate from sin, so whether a believer has become hardened and fallen away or whether he has thought of adultery the condition is the same. All sin is the result of some hardening of the heart or loss of fellowship with God. Salvation, praise the Lord, is entirely dependent upon HIM not us alone.

[Ovedya]

Using your analogy, if faith is the pipeline... what happens when your pipeline is cut off?

The same thing that happens when you stop eating. You stop growing and eventually you starve to death.

[angels4u]

But if you look at the marker at an angle, you see it for what it truly is, a column or tube. Not a circle or rectangle. We don't live in a 2-D world.

The Word must be viewed in the same way. It has to be viewed from all angles. If you're looking at it from only one angle, you're not seeing everything.

There is only one Truth. To deny that is to deny the Truth.

No, we do not live in a 2-D world. Neither are we four-legged animals that grow wool, but that did not stop God form calling us sheep.

It's an illustration to make the point that God sees beyond what we can see.

Or do you believe we see clearly and not in part? (1 Cor. 13).

We live in 3-D, or 4-D if you include time (which we can't visualize), but our orientation in time is limited - like being on a time line that can only move in one direction, whereas God is not bound by the time line segment we are bound to. God also encompasses many more dimensions that scientists have been recently discovered exist.

What does the marker look like in 4 dimensions? In 5? Can we see that?

Thus, the illustration - scaled down to a perspective we can understand - how god sees beyond what we can see.

Neither are we four-legged animals that grow wool, but that did not stop God form calling us sheep

[angels4u]

I have a question for the our friends in the Lord who do not believe OSAS , what happens with my soul if I sin today and I die before I could confess it to the Lord?

[e lansing]

Hebrews 3:12-14 MKJV

12 Take heed, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. 13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called today, lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,

Can brothers depart? Yes they can. Are we partakers of Christ? Yes, IF we persevere.

Interesting that the conditions which you claim exist in the verse by virtue of the words you emphasized are directly contradicted by a phrase which you did not emphasize. So what's the condition of the believer who "departs from the living God"? Does he lose his salvation? The text does not say that. You have to draw that conclusion outside the confines of the verse. The condition of the believer who departs from the living God is being "hardened through the deceitfulness of sin."

How is a believer (or ex-believer?) who has departed from the living God and hardened through the deceitfulness of sin, saved, by your reckoning?

Because salvation is not dependent upon the temporary condition of a believer in a fallen state. God does not differentiate from sin, so whether a believer has become hardened and fallen away or whether he has thought of adultery the condition is the same. All sin is the result of some hardening of the heart or loss of fellowship with God. Salvation, praise the Lord, is entirely dependent upon HIM not us alone.

Agreed, however, those whom Gods saves, still have a free will and may choose not to be saved and follow there own way, like the people of Israel, who Moses let out of Egypt. 99% of all those that God saved, never made it into the promise land, why, disobedince. The promise land was not a guaranteed because you where jewish or hebrew, it was promised to those who not only believed but obeyed. Again, what good is grace without faith? We are saved by grace, but faith is needed to recieved the benefit of grace. Without faith, how can grace be utilized?

e