Matthew 16:18 Peter, rock, and church

[nebula]

Nebula,

I invite you to visit the web site and enrich your mind in the truths of Christ's teachings.

Truth my foot!

You asked me where in Scripture. I gave you the passage.

And I told you that passage proved nothing!!

I am very annoyed with you, Rachel. Message boards are for dialoguing, and you have shown you have no interest in communication.

Proselytizing will get you nowhere.

[rachel89]

Nebual,

If you are annoyed because I haven't replied yet to your post in the other thread, please be patient. I have chosen reply to this thread first because I thought it more important. Be patient. I will get to that one as soon as I can.

As for your comments about proselytizing, I am simply presenting the truths of the Christ's Church these discussions.

[rachel89]

By the way, Nebula, the question you asked in the other thread where you are so angry with me over for not answering so quickly (sorry, I just had time to read it over now!)? Well, that's been answered in here already. Just check out the post I made right on the other page.

[nebula]

Hi Rachel -

Actually, you did not answer my question.

Here was the original:

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The only way a person may be saved is to adhere to what Christ taught through His Church.

"through His Church?"

Where is this in Scripture?

Does it say:

10 let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, and His Church, by Him and us this man stands here before you whole. 11 This [Him and me, Peter] is the 'stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.' 12 Nor is there salvation in any other [Jesus and His Church], for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4 - Peter speaking)

or does it say:

10 let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole. 11 This [Jesus] is the 'stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.' 12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4 - Peter speaking)

And by the way - where does the word "Church" come from And what is the Greek word that is used?

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You answered with the "Upon this rock" verse.

I responded:

Even if you interpret Jesus' words to mean that Peter himself is the rock rather than his confession that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God -

Please explain what this passage has to say about salvation being through the teachings of the His Ecclesia (the actual Greek word used . . . you should look it up sometime.)

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Calling Peter the rock does not state that salvation is found through the teaching of "His Church".

Also, you did not address where the word "church" comes from, nor what the Greek word used means.

And by the way, you answered Arthur by mentioning the Aramaic.

My question is where the Aramaic source was found? I was under the impression that the original Aramaic text was lost. So would not an Aramaic source be a re-translation from the Greek? Thus, how can you claim it to be the original?

[Rick-Parker]

It's very sad to see such blunt ignorance of the Catholic Faith.The salvation of souls depends upon knowledge of the truth a taught by Jesus Christ through His Church. We should discuss this further, Parker1

The only thing we "should discuss" is the fact that the Roman Catholic Church is not Christ's church, and that if we do not belong to it, we are not saved. We are saved by the grace of God, not which denomination we belong to. There is only one way to the Father, and that is through the Son. There is no way else. No matter what your local priest, Cardinal or Pope tells you. Try reading the real Bible, the one with the 66 books instead of the one that you follow with it's added books.

[OneLight]

OneLight,

You have totally passed over all the points explaining why Peter is the rock. In all fairness, I ask you to disprove point by point the reasons given in my post above. At the very least, please explain your reasons (in light of what I posted) for denying those points.

I will not take it point by point, but will use just a few simple passages of scripture.

1 Corinthians 10:1-5

Old Testament Examples

1 Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.

Matthew 16:15-18

15 He said to them,

[ayin jade]

In light of these facts, have you settled on the truth that Jesus made Peter the rock?

My faith is in Jesus, the source of my salvation.

Not in the RCC and not in Peter.

[Arthur Durnan]

One loves listening to the precise copying - quite evidently so by the kind folk in the monastery - out of the "Roman church playbook" re issues of life and death as outlined by partisans of the Vatican. "Same old, same old" emphasis on a 5th-century invention entirely apart from the inspired New Testament of Truth. Rome exists essentially on the inventive whims & nostrums of the ever-changing Vatican in Rome, Italy, a beautiful city but one distinctly separate from anything to do with the heavenly version.

The blatant fact of the matter at hand is that neither the Lord Jesus Christ nor any of His disciples were ever members of a "Roman Catholic" church or ever attended a "Roman Catholic" church anywhere! Truth to tell, a "Roman Catholic" church didn't even exist in Century No. 1 or for hundreds of years after until Century No. 5. All of the disciples of Jesus were given the "key" to Heaven's Kingdom in that all the disciples exercised it over and over again on a "worldwide basis." The Roman "papacy" was totally unknown in Jesus' day, it being but a much later invention - among many others - by the Church of Rome. The Roman "purgatory" (for those kind folk not good enuf for heaven, and not bad enuf for hell) is also totally unknown in Holy Writ...."confessional boxes"...."Mary as Roman mediatrix"....the worship of images of the "saints" and kneeling before them are completely pagan ideas because biblical saints are all LIVING people, never dead ones to be recognized later by a Roman "pope." Biblically speaking, if one is not a saint before death, one cannot magically become one after demise.

Kind folk from the Roman monastery should spend much more exacting time in Holy Scripture even in the R.C. version: Exodus 20:4,5 and Deuteronomy 4:15-23 denounce graven images, even their construction as also in Isaiah 44:15-19. The Roman "sacrifice" of a mass is entirely foreign as well to Holy Scripture as the settled Word of Truth underscores the fact that Jesus should not be "put back on the cross" millions of times daily in any "sacrifice" of a Roman mass. Jesus' bodily sacrifice on Mount Calvary is a once-for-all-time sacrifice never to be repeated, even by a Church of Rome. Check the Apostle Paul in Hebrews 10. The gargantuan differences are as light to darkness....man's own good works & personal conclusions as opposed to the finished work - once-for-all-time - of the world's only Savior, Jesus Christ the Righteous One. Matthew 11:28 says ZIP about coming to any disciple - Peter or otherwise - but only to the One True Rock of the One True & Worldwide Christian Church centered in God's Majestic & Eternal Son. St. John 3:1-7 says it quite nicely. Believe it and live!

Jesus Christ specifically is called the Rock by Peter himself in 1 Peter 2:5-8. There are not TWO rocks. Just One. Paul refers to believers as "stones," living ones. Paul says in Ephesians 2:19-21 that only Jesus Christ is the Corner Stone, the very one-and-only Foundation of the One True Christian Church, If Jesus is the sure Foundation of the One True Church, how can a faulty disciple be such? There are not two foundations. Least of all the married & very faulty Peter. Pulllleezz!

[Jedi4Yahweh]

In light of these facts, have you settled on the truth that Jesus made Peter the rock?

My faith is in Jesus, the source of my salvation.

Not in the RCC and not in Peter.

1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

I think that scripture says it all.

Rock of our salvation!!!

;:emot-highfive:;

[Arthur Durnan]

In light of these facts, have you settled on the truth that Jesus made Peter the rock?

My faith is in Jesus, the source of my salvation.

Not in the RCC and not in Peter.

1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

I think that scripture says it all.

Rock of our salvation!!!

;:emot-highfive:;