distinguishing false from real

[nebula]

Well, at the risk of getting myself entangled in another mess again . . . here goes:

Matthew 12

38 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to Him, "Teacher, we want to see a sign from You." 39 But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign ; and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet ; 40 for just as JONAH WAS THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS IN THE BELLY OF THE SEA MONSTER, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

This passage needs to be kept in perspective. Note what Jesus said in the preceding chapter:

Matt. 11

2 Now when John, while imprisoned, heard of the works of Christ, he sent word by his disciples 3 and said to Him, "Are You the Expected One, or shall we look for someone else ?" 4 Jesus answered and said to them, "Go and report to John what you hear and see : 5 the BLIND RECEIVE SIGHT and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the POOR HAVE THE GOSPEL PREACHED TO THEM. 6 "And blessed is he who does not take offense at Me."

Jesus had been performing signs right and left from the very beginning of His ministry. And even afterward He kept manifesting signs. (Note for example that the feeding of the 5000 occurred afterward in Matt. ch. 14).

The reason Jesus refused to give a sign upon demand - except to proclaim the sign of Jonah - was because these were the Pharisees looking for reasons to trap Him and accuse Him, not people genuinely seeking God. Also, the signs were all right in front of their noses, but they refused to acknowledge them.

Jesus told John to trust the signs that were given. He could have done the same for the Pharisees, but He knew they would not receive what He said. So He replied with a rebuke.

Therefore, to use the initial passage as an argument against signs being performed today is, as I see it, taking Scripture out of context.

Consider, was not the outpouring at Pentecost a sign? How would that fit in with, "No sign shall be given except the sign of Jonah"?

[nebula]

About gold dust, all I can say is this:

Gold is recognized to be a Biblical symbol for God's glory.

[Guest man]

The 2 quotes below are responses to a serious question. How would you feel if someone responded to you in such a manner? He made a claim and I simply asked for scripture verification of that claim. How is that being "mean" and "baiting"?

We should all be held accountable for the things we say in these forums because much of what we say pertains to the Word. Since there is no partiality with God, I see no reason it should be any different with us.

I would expect this question from someone who never read the bible.

So. . . your poor behavior is someone elses fault?

What poor behavior? I asked the man a simple question and he laughs. Why don't you go back and read where it all started.

[Guest man]

If someone who is following the teachings of a false teacher and is considered to be sealed with the Holy Spirit, why do we spend so much time warning them about those false teachings? That doesn't make sense. What does it matter what he's doing or who he's following, he's sealed with the Holy Spirit.

We can pretty much disregard all the warnings about false prophets and teachers because if we're sealed with the Holy Spirit, we're good to go.

I don't understand how someone can say an individual is filled with the Holy Spirit if they are continuing a life of sin. That doesn't make sense to me. If someone rejects the truth, who can honestly say they are sealed with the Holy Spirit?

Man, what are you saying here?

Yes, I believe they are saved and sealed with the Holy Spirit AND that we should warn them about false teachings. Who says just because you are sealed, that false teachings are no longer to be avoided? That flies against everything I read in the Word.

And so does saying a person can be filled with the Holy Spirit even though they reject the truth. That doesn't make sense.

If someone is sealed with the Holy Spirit and guarnteed entrance into the kingdom even though they reject the truth of the Word, where's the need to correct them? They're getting into the kingdom regardless of what they believe. That doesn't make sense either.

That's like telling the winner of a race to prepare for the race he just ran. It makes no sense.

[~candice~]

If someone who is following the teachings of a false teacher and is considered to be sealed with the Holy Spirit, why do we spend so much time warning them about those false teachings? That doesn't make sense. What does it matter what he's doing or who he's following, he's sealed with the Holy Spirit.

We can pretty much disregard all the warnings about false prophets and teachers because if we're sealed with the Holy Spirit, we're good to go.

I don't understand how someone can say an individual is filled with the Holy Spirit if they are continuing a life of sin. That doesn't make sense to me. If someone rejects the truth, who can honestly say they are sealed with the Holy Spirit?

Man, what are you saying here?

Yes, I believe they are saved and sealed with the Holy Spirit AND that we should warn them about false teachings. Who says just because you are sealed, that false teachings are no longer to be avoided? That flies against everything I read in the Word.

And so does saying a person can be filled with the Holy Spirit even though they reject the truth. That doesn't make sense.

If someone is sealed with the Holy Spirit and guarnteed entrance into the kingdom even though they reject the truth of the Word, where's the need to correct them? They're getting into the kingdom regardless of what they believe. That doesn't make sense either.

That's like telling the winner of a race to prepare for the race he just ran. It makes no sense.

I'm not understanding you. Please clarify who you are saying is rejecting the truth. Are you talking about the WOF'ers? You just told me you think they are saved too, which means filled with the HS. So who are you talking about?

Even those who are being saved, need correction. The fact that we are heaven bound doesn't mean we should accept false theology.

[Guest man]

I'm not understanding you. Please clarify who you are saying is rejecting the truth. Are you talking about the WOF'ers? You just told me you think they are saved too, which means filled with the HS. So who are you talking about?

Even those who are being saved, need correction. The fact that we are heaven bound doesn't mean we should accept false theology.

I'm talking about people in general. I'm not looking at any certain person or belief. I'm making reference to this.

I know people who have His Spirit, but reject His leading......

Just because one has the Holy Spirit does not mean that they follow Him.

My personal belief is I don't believe someone can be filled with the Holy Spirit and reject Him at the same time.

[~candice~]

I'm not understanding you. Please clarify who you are saying is rejecting the truth. Are you talking about the WOF'ers? You just told me you think they are saved too, which means filled with the HS. So who are you talking about?

Even those who are being saved, need correction. The fact that we are heaven bound doesn't mean we should accept false theology.

I'm talking about people in general. I'm not looking at any certain person or belief. I'm making reference to this.

I know people who have His Spirit, but reject His leading......

Just because one has the Holy Spirit does not mean that they follow Him.

My personal belief is I don't believe someone can be filled with the Holy Spirit and reject Him at the same time.

Man, do you believe that we sin after salvation? And sinning as a Christian requires me to go against His leading... so yes, I am saved, but I sin. That sin, is me rejecting His leading, but not to a loss of salvation.

Note there is a difference between outright rejecting Him, and not following Him.

[Guest man]

I'm not understanding you. Please clarify who you are saying is rejecting the truth. Are you talking about the WOF'ers? You just told me you think they are saved too, which means filled with the HS. So who are you talking about?

Even those who are being saved, need correction. The fact that we are heaven bound doesn't mean we should accept false theology.

I'm talking about people in general. I'm not looking at any certain person or belief. I'm making reference to this.

I know people who have His Spirit, but reject His leading......

Just because one has the Holy Spirit does not mean that they follow Him.

My personal belief is I don't believe someone can be filled with the Holy Spirit and reject Him at the same time.

Man, do you believe that we sin after salvation? And sinning as a Christian requires me to go against His leading... so yes, I am saved, but I sin. That sin, is me rejecting His leading, but not to a loss of salvation.

Note there is a difference between outright rejecting Him, and not following Him.

Yes there is and that's the point I was trying make here.

If someone continues to reject the truth, it is my belief that the Holy Spirit does not reside in that person.

[~candice~]

Well... only in some things.

There is only one truth about the rapture.. some of us stick dogmatically to our positions, and are wrong. But those who are wrong, and continue to unknowingly reject the truth of the rapture, still have the hs within them, and are still saved.

I could think of many other examples.

Rejecting truth doesn't necessarily mean that the person doesn't have the Holy Spirit, yet again let me reiterate that none of us have perfect theology and are holding on in some way to things that are false.

[ayin jade]

Now in return, a yes or no question, does believing false theology break a seal?

The answer could be yes and no.

Example 1: Some people believe one must be baptized in order to be saved. I would say no to this one.

Example 2: The Jahovah Witness believes that Christ is Michael the archangel. I would say yes to this one.

The Jehovah Witness was never sealed to begin with.