Can Omniscience and free will coexist?

[MorningGlory]

... now, that is some funny logic.

And yet, it is logical nonetheless.

No, it's not. Logic makes clear; the above is overthinking to the nth degree. Faith, an omniscient God and free will are not difficult concepts to understand.

[MorningGlory]

... now, that is some funny logic.

And yet, it is logical nonetheless.

Everyone has their own logic, from the most sane to the most insane, but nonetheless, it is logic to them.

[doubting_tommy]

Please don't ever become a judge. You'd let every criminal go free because he really had no "choice" in what he did.

We lock up the criminally insane in order to prevent them harming others even though they may have had no choice in what they did. We also lock people up as a deterrent to others. So even if you believe that someone is not actually morally responsible for his actions, you can still have reasons to limit his freedom in order to protect other people.

Everyone has their own logic, from the most sane to the most insane, but nonetheless, it is logic to them.

I must disagree with this, to an extent. This is a little like saying that

[OneLight]

Everyone has their own logic, from the most sane to the most insane, but nonetheless, it is logic to them.

I must disagree with this, to an extent. This is a little like saying that

[nebula]

As for faith, well I

[doubting_tommy]

The logic I was referring to removes all responsibility from the sinner, which is not a biblical correct statement at all. We are responsible for our actions and will be held accountable for them, meaning that we do have a choice to commit sin or not. If we are found without the blood of Christ, forgiven for our sins, the judgment falls fully on us.

I *think* this is probably correct. The reasons we would have as a society for holding people morally responsible may not be the same as the reasons God would have for holding people morally responsible. So while we would still have the option of 'holding people responsible' in order to protect society, that option would not apply in the case of a God who would punish and reward his creations for the decisions they made in life.

Faith is nothing more than strong trust. This is the actual meaning of the Hebrew word.

Your "faith" is whatever you strongly trust - like your reason, or the scientific method,or math, or in a person to get a certain job done.

Faith is a very common, practical term and is not exclusive to religious belief.

A young child has faith that what his parents teach him is true (until they decide to rebel, but that's another story) - but why else ask the parent questions?

This looks very clear to me, but I'm not 100% certain that everyone uses 'faith' in this way. There seems to be something special about faith that makes it different somehow to regular trust or belief. It's difficult to put my finger on what this is exactly. Faith doesn't seem to require the same level of justification as many other kinds of 'strong trust'.

Edited November 23, 2010 by doubting_tommy

[nebula]

This looks very clear to me, but I'm not 100% certain that everyone uses 'faith' in this way. There seems to be something special about faith that makes it different somehow to regular trust or belieg. It's difficult to put my finger on what this is exactly. Faith doesn't seem to require the same level of justification as many other kinds of 'strong trust'.

Faith is a doing. You have to let go of your preconceived notion that faith is an expression of belief. Belief can not bring about anything, faith does.

Take Thomas Edison. He failed an incredible amount of times before he finally created a working light bulb. In everything I have read on him, his words were proclaiming the successful completing of his task. This is what faith is.

[MorningGlory]

This reminds me of the old joke about quantum mechanics: "if you think you understand quantum mechanics, you really don't understand quantum mechanics". I will wholeheartedly accept the possibility that my position may be completely incorrect, but I cannot accept the claim that these concepts are not difficult to understand. Whole books have been written on the topic of Free Will and the debate continues to rage amongst philosophers and theologians on a variety of levels. Omniscience is an extraordinarily complicated concept which gets us stuck deep into epistemology, the philosophical discipline concerned with knowledge. As for faith, well I'm far from an expert compared the vast majority of people here, but I can attest that some people, myself included, find it a very difficult concept to understand.

I should also say that I don't think my position on free will is incompatible with a belief in God. Many people believe that God's omnipotence does not extend beyond the laws of logic, and if it is the case that free will is an incoherent concept, then it would follow that God could not have created human beings with 'free will', in the way in which we understand it.

You're trying to apply your brand of logic to the Creator. It's futile to do this; God is not bound by the constraints that we have. Not space, not time nor physical laws. It's like trying to check the internal temperature of a volcano with a meat thermometer. Try this...if we didn't have free will we would never sin because God hates all sin and cannot sin Himself. I honestly don't know where you're going with your train of thought. YOU are mortal; God is not. Try reading the Bible to get an idea of free will and omniscience.

[doubting_tommy]

Faith is a doing. You have to let go of your preconceived notion that faith is an expression of belief. Belief can not bring about anything, faith does.

Take Thomas Edison. He failed an incredible amount of times before he finally created a working light bulb. In everything I have read on him, his words were proclaiming the successful completing of his task. This is what faith is.

To have trust in something to my mind is to act in a way which reflects a belief that something is the case. So, if a man trusts his wife to be loyal to him, he will act in a way which reflects a belief that his wife is a loyal person. But if a man believed that his wife was not a loyal person, then he would not be able to have trust in her to be loyal. Similarly, if Thomas Edison really believed that it would be impossible for him to create a working light bulb, he would not have been able to have faith in his ability to create one.

I can

[nebula]

Belief is an element of faith, but belief itself is not faith. Faith goes beyond belief.