Spin off From "IS Jesus God" thread in Doctrinal

[A Muslim]

Sorry, I have no interest in reading more false statements that make allah to be above Jesus, no muslim has convinced me that Islam is nothing more than a "murder cult" where if I do not become a muslim, you must seek me out and murder me for not converting. this is written out in plain language with in the Qu`ran, as well as the statement that muslims will achieve world peace only when the whole world becomes muslim. The only way to achieve that is to murder anyone who refuses your evil beliefs written by a single person suffering from extreme heat stroke.

Well, you are taking verses out of context, the verse you gave was talking about those who fight Muslims, you can see our belief in Jihad here:

http://sites.google.com/site/christismuslim/jihadorterrorism

[A Muslim]

Behold, We sent IT

So tell me, does It mean part of? Or the whole, in Arabic?

Can mean both according to context

[Fez]

Behold, We sent IT

So tell me, does It mean part of? Or the whole, in Arabic?

Can mean both according to context

Well that's as good as way as any to explain oneself out of a contradiction, is it not?

[nChrist]

A Muslim,

You're like the rest of the people who deny that Jesus Christ is God:

You don't know God, and God doesn't know you.

You deny God, and God denies you.

You don't have the Holy Spirit of God living in your heart because that is reserved for true, born-again believers.

You are lost and a foreigner from the Household of God.

________________________________________________

To make matters worse for yourself, you are openly preaching against the only true and living God, and you're trying to deceive many with a false religion. We don't need or want what you're selling. You are rejected as a false teacher of a false religion. You are lost and in need of Salvation. You've been given the truth of the Gospel of the Grace of God. The question for you is where you will spend eternity.

[Guest shiloh357]

Yes, what you are saying is the main point, but there are other sub points and these sub points tell that God is neither a man nor the son of man, oterwise the verse wouldn't have mentioned these 2 examples, just it would have said God neither lies nor repents.

No, there are no other

[Guest shiloh357]

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Immanuel is not His Name. It is His title. Imimanuael being ascribed to Jesus as "God with us" indicates Jesus' deity.

I think the verse says his name not his title.

It does not say that His Name will be Immanuel. He is known as Jesus/Yeshua, not Immanuel. It simply refers to the way He was to be regarded. Immanuel is no more His proper name than Prince of Peace.

As for your first point, it doesn't imply that Jesus is God at all as many people ruled Israel. As for the second, even if it meant eternal past, the verse doesn't say and he is from eternal past, but his origin meaning that he wasn't present the way he is in the eternal past but just his origin which seems to be present in God's predestination as Paul told about himself to be chosen from the beginning of the world.

You are simply unwilling to be honest about the plain sense of the text. All of those things taken together, denote Jesus deity. The Bible, in many places, testifies of Jesus

[Guest shiloh357]

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No, it means that Jesus imparts eternal life. It means exactly what I said it means. Jesus literally gives people the life of God to dwell within them in the person of His Holy Spirit.

Really, so why do Christians die?

We don

[Guest shiloh357]

I still need the evidence where Jesus said what you are saying about him. Secondly, either he was omiscent or not as you are contradicting yourself here, you clearly say here that he emptied himself of divine perogatives because he didn't know the hour, but when he knew how people think, this became a divine attribute, you are tailoring the verses according to what your belief says, that made you not just talking with no evidence, but also contradicting yourself. Now if he knew what people think then he didn't know the hour, that won't make him omniscent, so your point fails to stand against scriptures.

I have already provided the evidence. I said that Jesus emptied Himself of some Divine perogatives. There is no contradiction. Jesus lived in subordination to His Father. As for some future events, Jesus was temporarily and voluntarily limited in knowledge. However, we find Jesus able to read the hearts of men as only an omniscient God can do.

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Accept that the Bible does not say that the Father told Jesus was they were thinking. It simply tells us that Jesus was able to read their thoughts. It gives no credit to the Father for His ability to do so. So you are simply working from conjecture.

Well, I have elaborated above that Jesus took everything from the Father. Besides, the original case for all prophets that they didn't perform miracles by themselves, but through God, any violation to this rule needs evidence, and as you are the one who support the violation, you are the one asked to give evidence, so actually you are the one who have been working from conjecture not me.

No, the conjecture is all yours. You are the one penciling in the notion that the Father told Jesus what they were thinking. You are imposing that conjecture on to the text. I have provided all the evidence needed. What you do with it is up to you. I am not responsible for your belief or disbelief. Neither am I responsible to convince you. I am only responsible to show you why I believe as I do. The rest is up to you.

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So your exmaple doesn't really measure up to what Jesus does. We witness to people, but is Jesus who does the saving, because only God can save us from our sins.

We need to talk about Jesus whether he really died for or sins or not, this may need a separate thread. You may see my point here if you like:

The Bible clearly defines Jesus

[nChrist]

A Muslim,

You have slick attempts at deception but nothing worthy of debate or even notice. God's Word is full of evidence that Jesus Christ is God. You have no spiritual eyes to see or spiritual ears to hear because you are lost and dead in your sins. You can't even get beyond the words of Jesus Christ Himself. Here's a sample:

John 14:6-7 KJV Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Here is God The Son talking about God The Father and bluntly stating that He is God - one with God The Father. The Holy Bible is full of Scripture like this, and there is no way that you can deal with any of them with your attempted deception. So, you can't use the Holy Bible for your false beliefs. You must use a man-made bible with a little "b" for your false beliefs, and you have one called the quran. You need to leave God's Book - The Holy Bible - alone and stop molesting it. You should know by now that you have a lost cause here and that nobody is buying your bologna. We worship the Only True and Living God here, one you don't know at all. You worship a false god with a little "g" made up by a false prophet. We have no interest at all in your false god and prophet. What will it take to convince you of this?

[MorningGlory]

A Muslim,

You have slick attempts at deception but nothing worthy of debate or even notice. God's Word is full of evidence that Jesus Christ is God. You have no spiritual eyes to see or spiritual ears to hear because you are lost and dead in your sins. You can't even get beyond the words of Jesus Christ Himself. Here's a sample:

John 14:6-7 KJV Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Here is God The Son talking about God The Father and bluntly stating that He is God - one with God The Father. The Holy Bible is full of Scripture like this, and there is no way that you can deal with any of them with your attempted deception. So, you can't use the Holy Bible for your false beliefs. You must use a man-made bible with a little "b" for your false beliefs, and you have one called the quran. You need to leave God's Book - The Holy Bible - alone and stop molesting it. You should know by now that you have a lost cause here and that nobody is buying your bologna. We worship the Only True and Living God here, one you don't know at all. You worship a false god with a little "g" made up by a false prophet. We have no interest at all in your false god and prophet. What will it take to convince you of this?

I don't know about A Muslim but, if you had directed this at me.....I would be convinced. Those who will not hear are going to remain lost for eternity.