confused

[autumn8484]

[Guest Butero]

[ayin jade]

Read the verses in context.

Romans

2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has a boast; but not before God.

3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him for righteousness."

4 But to him working, the reward is not reckoned according to grace, but according to debt.

5 But to him not working, but believing on Him justifying the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

That chapter speaks of how its not our works that save us but faith.

Works are the result of our faith. When we are saved we are filled with the Holy Spirit who works on us, changing us. We want to please Him in our lives by living as He wishes us to. That is a result of being forgiven.

As for repentence. That doesnt save us. Its the faith in Jesus that saves us.

Ephesians 2

8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God,

9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them.

Hmm clear as mud? Hope I made sense here autumn.

[autumn8484]

Read the verses in context.

Romans

2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has a boast; but not before God.

3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him for righteousness."

4 But to him working, the reward is not reckoned according to grace, but according to debt.

5 But to him not working, but believing on Him justifying the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

That chapter speaks of how its not our works that save us but faith.

Works are the result of our faith. When we are saved we are filled with the Holy Spirit who works on us, changing us. We want to please Him in our lives by living as He wishes us to. That is a result of being forgiven.

As for repentence. That doesnt save us. Its the faith in Jesus that saves us.

Ephesians 2

8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God,

9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them.

Hmm clear as mud? Hope I made sense here autumn.

yep ty jade i dont like when ppl put just a few verses up on FB it can be taken so many diff ways when you dont get to read the first few b4 and after..

Edited January 9, 2011 by autumn8484

[Littlelambseativy]

Autumn 8484

We have no righteousness but Christ's. Abraham believed and his belief in God was counted to him for righteousness. We do things because we love God and not to attain rigjhteousness. That we cannot do. Jesus alone is righteous and we put on His righteousness when we accept Him as Lord and Saviour.

[pearly163]

Thank you for posting this. I struggle with the same issue. One verse that confuses me is "Work out your salvation in fear and trembling", maybe I'm not reading it as it is meant to be read.

[Littlelambseativy]

That refers to good works that one does after one is born again. One has nothing to do other than accept Christ as saviour but once one is born again then we desire to do good things for our Lord and in so doing we" work out our own salvation". He they are being admonished not to do something that would be an embarrassment to our Lord and the ministry in His name.

[For me to live is Christ]

we must contrast this with what the rest of the bible says on the subject. James says:

James 2:14-26

What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe -- and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. 25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. NKJV

the above passage gives us a clearer understanding about what it means when the scripture says that 'Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness." If you read the account of Abraham and Isaac in the book of Gen. you will see that God had promised to bless Abraham through his son Isaac. Not Ishmael. And God had promised Abraham that His seed would be as numerous as the stars. Abraham believed these promises. So when God told Abraham to offer up Isaac as a offering to him, Abraham continued to believe Gods earlier promises and knew that they would be fulfilled as promised. That meant that God would bring Isaac back to life once he had sacrificed him. When Abraham got to the mountain to sacrafice Isaac, he told his young men to wait for them to return.(Gen 22:5) In this statement, we see abrahams faith that Isaac would come back down the mountain alive with him. Abraham was persuaded that god would bring his son back to life! And Abrahams actions proved his faith!

So also we prove our faith when we believe what God says and act on it. I mean if you truly believe that Jesus is your Lord: then you will obey His commands! If you do not believe that Jesus is your Lord; you will not obey His commands! So we see that your faith, or lack of it, will always determine your actions!

I hope that this helps you.

God bless.

Edited January 15, 2011 by For me to live is Christ

[other one]

which commands?

[nebula]

but does this mean we dont have to work to be a good person??????

i know that only way to heaven is through Jesus but i dont understand why

i thought you had to both trun from sin (work to be a good person)

and ask Jesus in your life......

i even understand God wanting us to know him but why is it that he

would rather us have faith then be a good person???? im not saying

thats a bad thing i just dont understand it.

We had some thought touching on your questions at a prayer meeting last night. Some thoughts to ponder:

Is it out job to know God? Or is that His job?

According to what Scripture says, God has the power to forget our sins. So when we stand in judgment at the end of the End, what will we be judged for? (Will we be judged for the sin we commit that He's forgiven? Or judged for the works of righteousness in our lives and such?)

As for your last question - faith is not belief. Faith is "strong trust" (that's the concept conveyed through the Hebrew).

No some questions, can you believe that Jesus died for your sins if you do not "strongly trust" that He did so? Could Abraham had taken his son to the altar if he did not "strongly trust" that the Lord told him to do so and not "strongly trust" that the Lord would still somehow fulfill the promise He gave to Abraham to be blessed with heirs through Isaac?

So this is not saying the Lord doesn't want you to produce good fruit, to do the work that pleases Him, die to sin, and all that. It is rather emphasizing the groundwork of faith (strong trust).

If your good works are not grounded on faith, what are they grounded on? Are you doing them for yourself (for a better afterlife?) Or are you doing them out of love? Do you have the faith to obey Him when all your senses tell you it's madness, when He's asked you to give up what He's promised to you, when it hurts?

Can your Christian life even begin if you do not have faith?