So what's with all the killing?

[Matt712]

God has killed personally by wiping out sinful cities, sinful people etc. If you look at OT books like Judges, he even commands others to kill and intructs them on exactly how to carry out that job. My Bible study group can never make much headway on this topic since we only know a loving God who forgives us and treats us with even greater kindness than we treat each other. I find my experiences with coming to know God to run counter to this view of a vengeful Lord who smites the wicked. I'm not refuting anything, or wavering in my faith. I just am interested in feedback and heartfelt opinions. I ask that you tell me from your own heart how you feel about this.

P.S. If you are not christian, please don't use this for a base of argument about the nature or existence of God.

[mizzdy]

God has killed personally by wiping out sinful cities, sinful people etc. If you look at OT books like Judges, he even commands others to kill and intructs them on exactly how to carry out that job. My Bible study group can never make much headway on this topic since we only know a loving God who forgives us and treats us with even greater kindness than we treat each other. I find my experiences with coming to know God to run counter to this view of a vengeful Lord who smites the wicked. I'm not refuting anything, or wavering in my faith. I just am interested in feedback and heartfelt opinions. I ask that you tell me from your own heart how you feel about this.

P.S. If you are not christian, please don't use this for a base of argument about the nature or existence of God.

There are many reasons for God wanting to wipe out some people usually because they have constantly profaned His name, etc. Does your group have a problem with the flood also? or the fact that at the end of the age God is going to wipe out the wicked, at the end of the millennial reign also God will destroy those that will not bow their knee to Him. God is not one way in the OT and another way in the NT, God is the same from the beginning and forever so what you see in the OT is the same as the NT. He wants us to come into His family and those that do not are outside in the darkness we all get the same chances to follow Him after that its His right as Creator to do as He says He will. As Creator, God, Savior, King, and the list goes on, it is His rules, His way of life, and we are to walk in His ways those that refuse to do so are considered wicked, sinful or are considered lawless and those will remain outside and eventually burned up before the new is established.

Mizz

[Leonard]

Well, I'm from out West, where "He just needed killin' Your Honor" is still considered a viable legal defense! So my views may be very different than your own.

I just figure that if God says somebody or other "needed killin'" then they sure must have. I don't need to know all the whys and wherefores any more than I need to know 'the day or the hour' the Lord is returning.

Any discussion on this is only going to be speculative.

[Matt712]

Well, I'm from out West, where "He just needed killin' Your Honor" is still considered a viable legal defense! So my views may be very different than your own.

I just figure that if God says somebody or other "needed killin'" then they sure must have. I don't need to know all the whys and wherefores any more than I need to know 'the day or the hour' the Lord is returning.

Any discussion on this is only going to be speculative.

You may very well be right about that. I'm curious not why God does these things, so much as how people have reconciled for themselves the appearance of two different versions of God. Old Testament 'fire and brimstone' as I've heard it called, and the New Testament 'Lord of peace' that I have surrendered myself to. I want to surrender myself more fully to ALL of what God is, without reservation. I'm frankly afraid to bear witness to an angry God, though I do not doubt the days of 'Revelation' are coming.

[Leonard]

Well, I'm from out West, where "He just needed killin' Your Honor" is still considered a viable legal defense! So my views may be very different than your own.

I just figure that if God says somebody or other "needed killin'" then they sure must have. I don't need to know all the whys and wherefores any more than I need to know 'the day or the hour' the Lord is returning.

Any discussion on this is only going to be speculative.

You may very well be right about that. I'm curious not why God does these things, so much as how people have reconciled for themselves the appearance of two different versions of God. Old Testament 'fire and brimstone' as I've heard it called, and the New Testament 'Lord of peace' that I have surrendered myself to. I want to surrender myself more fully to ALL of what God is, without reservation. I'm frankly afraid to bear witness to an angry God, though I do not doubt the days of 'Revelation' are coming.

Perhaps you have a 2 dimensional view of God. If you read the New Testament you find Jesus spent a good deal of time pronouncing judgement, and making angry sounding statements.

He is not quite so feline, I think, as you suppose. He instructed His followers "He who has no sword, let him sell his very winter clothes to get one." What do you suppose they were going to use the swords for...gardening???

[Openly Curious]

name='Matt712' timestamp='1297458268' post='1648477

God has killed personally by wiping out sinful cities, sinful people etc. *If you look at OT books like Judges, he even commands others to kill and intructs them on exactly how to carry out that job.

My Bible study group can never make much headway on this topic---since we only know a loving God who forgives us and treats us with even greater kindness than we treat each other.

.

You can be assured along with your group members that you all are not alone when it comes to this subject. One thing is that God is God and he does things that sometimes baffles our minds we just can't wrap our minds around the things of God and the depths, heights. breadth and lengths of His great love. (Ephesians 3:18-21) Living up under the sun we only know in part (1 Corinthians 13:12) and we can only speak forth in the part we have been given and that is the word of God.

I find my experiences with coming to know God to run --- "counter" --- to this view of a vengeful Lord who smites the wicked.

God is a God of Love but he also is a God of Wrath among so many other things. IBecause God is Love some people get the idea that because of that the Lord would not send people to hell who have not accepted Jesus as Saviour or heard the gospel. Not only in the OT do we see the wrath of God recorded we to can read in the NT of the wrath of God and of his great love in sending his only begotten Son into this world as a sacrifice for our atonement of our sins. Jesus was sent for salvation to the world those who receive him and are washed in his blood will be saved and those who refuse to accept Christ will reap eternal damnation. (Galations 6:7-10) God will smite the wicked still yet and they will be punished with everlasting damnation forever. The book of Revelation gives great insight into the wrath of God upon the wicked and even though we can see God's wrath we also can see the God of Love for His people.

[Matt712]

Thank you for your thoughts on this matter, and feel free to keep them coming if you are so inclined. I need to think about what's been said a little, but it has definitely shifted my perspective a little. It is, after all, God's universe in every sense. If He chooses to do something I do not neccessarily need to question His purpose, and it might be better not to. I will continue to read posts on this thread as they come in. Thank you to all who have given me their wisdom so far!

[Believer112]

God has killed personally by wiping out sinful cities, sinful people etc. If you look at OT books like Judges, he even commands others to kill and intructs them on exactly how to carry out that job. My Bible study group can never make much headway on this topic since we only know a loving God who forgives us and treats us with even greater kindness than we treat each other. I find my experiences with coming to know God to run counter to this view of a vengeful Lord who smites the wicked. I'm not refuting anything, or wavering in my faith. I just am interested in feedback and heartfelt opinions. I ask that you tell me from your own heart how you feel about this.

P.S. If you are not christian, please don't use this for a base of argument about the nature or existence of God.

You need to focus on Jesus. When Jesus was born God made peace with man.

Luke 2:13-15 (New King James Version)

¹³ And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God and saying:

¹⁴ " Glory to God in the highest,

And on earth peace, goodwill toward men!"^[a]

¹⁵ So it was, when the angels had gone away from them into heaven, that the shepherds said to one another, "Let us now go to Bethlehem and see this thing that has come to pass, which the Lord has made known to us."

The Law brought wrath.

Romans 4:15

because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression

Jesus brought in a new covenant, died for our sins and remember our sins no more.

Hebrews 8 12 For I will forgive their wickedness

and will remember their sins no more."^[a]

¹³ By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

[Guest]

God has killed personally by wiping out sinful cities, sinful people etc. If you look at OT books like Judges, he even commands others to kill and instructs them on exactly how to carry out that job. My Bible study group can never make much headway on this topic since we only know a loving God who forgives us and treats us with even greater kindness than we treat each other. I find my experiences with coming to know God to run counter to this view of a vengeful Lord who smites the wicked. I'm not refuting anything, or wavering in my faith. I just am interested in feedback and heartfelt opinions. I ask that you tell me from your own heart how you feel about this.

From Deep Within My Heart

Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. Ecclesiastes 12:13

I Know My LORD Jesus Is Just Not To Be Trifled With

See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand. For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever. Deuteronomy 32:39-40

And Yet I Can Hardly Wait

As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God. Psalms 42:1

To See His Face

For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me. Job 19:25-27

For You See Beloved

For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. Romans 8:15

I Love Him So

We love him, because he first loved us. 1 John 4:19

[OneLight]

When someone asks me why God would do such, I tell them if they can answer the questions He presented to Job in chapters 38-40, then I am sure God will answer their question, if they really want to know.