Guest Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Hello Fez, A very interesting quesion. Personally, I would only like to suggest that you consider making an appointment to speak to a Priest in the Roman Catholic Church. I would think that is the place to go for an answer to your question. I'm sure he would appreciate your honest endeavor to find an answer. Afterwards, you, of course are directed by Scripture to test all things. Acts 17:11; 1 Thessalonians 5:21 God bless you, Randal Perhaps it's not necessary to actually talk with a priest. (That's what I would do myself if I wanted an answer). I'm sure that there are Roman Catholic websites that could provide an answer too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botz Posted February 23, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 76 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,492 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 191 Days Won: 18 Joined: 03/29/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted February 23, 2011 Hi Fez...I think OldEnglishSheepdog has done a good summary. The fact is that there are many Catholics that are truly born-again, and yet their faith incorporates a number of things that make no sense. Going to a priest is not necessarily going to be of any great help, because within their ranks there seems to be an awful lot of confusion, and ways and means of explaining their beliefs that is convoluted and reminds me of Ezekiels vision of wheels within wheels. The long and the short of it is that a Catholic will by nature of his religion, submit himself to the Holy Mother Church, and therein lies the problem, because they are self-promoting, and they declare they are the only real authentic Church Authority, and therefore they have a monopoly on the Truth as they tell it. To stick with Marian doctrine, Scriptures will be used completely out of context, and others will demonstrate an unashamed eisogesis, that have more to do with human logic than with inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted February 23, 2011 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,194 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,469 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Online Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted February 23, 2011 This IS NOT, nor is it intended to be, a Catholic bashing session. Please keep on the topic without judgment or condemnation (neither of which I have for our Catholic brothers and sisters). Try as I might, I cannot find a scriptural reason why the Catholic church worships Mary in so many forms and ways. Can anyone help me understand the reasoning behind the doctrine? Grace please, otherwise we shut it down Ok?. In the very simple of Scripture Matt 12:50 50 For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother." NKJV Matt 19:29-30 29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name's sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life. 30 But many who are first will be last, and the last first. NKJV This clearly the understanding... Love Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted February 23, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Author Share Posted February 23, 2011 Hi Fez...I think OldEnglishSheepdog has done a good summary. The fact is that there are many Catholics that are truly born-again, and yet their faith incorporates a number of things that make no sense. Going to a priest is not necessarily going to be of any great help, because within their ranks there seems to be an awful lot of confusion, and ways and means of explaining their beliefs that is convoluted and reminds me of Ezekiels vision of wheels within wheels. The long and the short of it is that a Catholic will by nature of his religion, submit himself to the Holy Mother Church, and therein lies the problem, because they are self-promoting, and they declare they are the only real authentic Church Authority, and therefore they have a monopoly on the Truth as they tell it. To stick with Marian doctrine, Scriptures will be used completely out of context, and others will demonstrate an unashamed eisogesis, that have more to do with human logic than with inspiration of the Holy Sp Hi Botz, yep I think OldEnglishSheepdog did an excellent summary, and has given me the answer I was looking for. Thanks dawg..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heart of oak Posted February 23, 2011 Group: Seeker Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 19 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/07/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/20/1958 Share Posted February 23, 2011 (edited) I have always thought that ritually the Catholic Church is the most beautiful. I know that the robes of The Blessed Virgin were originally Red and Black,which is where the name for the Ladybird or "Our Ladys Bird" is taken from. When my older brother died his funeral was a form of catholic service in a catholic church as my sister in law is devout catholic and permission was obtained for my brother to be buried in a catholic cemetary. Interestingly in the church where his funeral was held is a painting of the Virgin and she is surrounded by pentagrams, a form of 5 point star used by Paganism today, each point representing the five elements sacred to them. When I asked why it appears on this painting I was told that the pentagram was used by early Christians too, only each point of the star represented to them the 5 wounds of Christ. Maybe anyone of the Catholic faith on here could elaborate on this. I don't know but I think that Mary is maybe seen as a perfect female role model in a patriarchal, male dominated religion. I do think though that the Catholic religion is very beautiful. Edited February 23, 2011 by heart of oak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heart of oak Posted February 23, 2011 Group: Seeker Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 19 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/07/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/20/1958 Share Posted February 23, 2011 We are not even TO BOW DOWN to statues/icons or ANYTHING made by our hands. So the issue of "is it really worship or isn't it"...........is not even crucial to the issue. Deu 5:8 Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth: Deu 5:9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me, Is there not an altar, or crucifix, or statue or cross of any kind in your church? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldEnglishSheepdog Posted February 23, 2011 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 844 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 118 Days Won: 11 Joined: 12/23/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted February 23, 2011 Going to a priest is not necessarily going to be of any great help, because within their ranks there seems to be an awful lot of confusion, This is very true. You can talk to 10 priests and get 10 totally different responses, but at the end of the day, priests don't make doctrine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldEnglishSheepdog Posted February 23, 2011 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 844 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 118 Days Won: 11 Joined: 12/23/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted February 23, 2011 (edited) People are often confused because of the single English word 'worship' which actually translates numerous words in the Latin. In reference to Mary, Catholics are taught to 'respect and honor' her, but to make her a goddess of some sort is far outside of Roman doctrine. This isn't strictly accurate. I've already quoted from the Catechism, and the pope refused to condemn the doctrine of exulting mary to the status of co-redemptrix at Vatican II. This is a Catholic Church in Poland. The RCC knows full well that they've put mary "Queen of Heaven" up there on the cross with Jesus - seen literally in the above graven image, which itself is blasphemy: "You saw no form of any kind the day the LORD spoke to you at Horeb out of the fire. Therefore watch yourselves very carefully, so that you do not become corrupt and make for yourselves an idol, an image of any shape, whether formed like a man or a woman" (Deut. 4:15-16). These doctrines are a far cry from what we see in scripture: "While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. Someone told him, Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you. He replied to him, Who is my mother, and who are my brothers? Pointing to his disciples, he said, Here are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother. (Mathew 12:46-50). To ascribe any of the qualities of mediation between man and God to anyone other than Jesus is to attribute His divine office to another: "For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" (1 Tim. 2:5). Edited February 23, 2011 by OldEnglishSheepdog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldEnglishSheepdog Posted February 23, 2011 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 844 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 118 Days Won: 11 Joined: 12/23/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted February 23, 2011 Hi Fez...I think OldEnglishSheepdog has done a good summary. The fact is that there are many Catholics that are truly born-again, and yet their faith incorporates a number of things that make no sense. Going to a priest is not necessarily going to be of any great help, because within their ranks there seems to be an awful lot of confusion, and ways and means of explaining their beliefs that is convoluted and reminds me of Ezekiels vision of wheels within wheels. The long and the short of it is that a Catholic will by nature of his religion, submit himself to the Holy Mother Church, and therein lies the problem, because they are self-promoting, and they declare they are the only real authentic Church Authority, and therefore they have a monopoly on the Truth as they tell it. To stick with Marian doctrine, Scriptures will be used completely out of context, and others will demonstrate an unashamed eisogesis, that have more to do with human logic than with inspiration of the Holy Sp Hi Botz, yep I think OldEnglishSheepdog did an excellent summary, and has given me the answer I was looking for. Thanks dawg..... My pleasure. I love this topic because God's given me a love for catholics, and a burning desire to connect them with His Word. Every person I feel compelled to share the gospel with turns out to be former followers of the High Church tradition, and I'm not from a Catholic area - it's just uncanny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheya joie Posted February 23, 2011 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,054 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 351 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/15/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted February 23, 2011 This IS NOT, nor is it intended to be, a Catholic bashing session. Please keep on the topic without judgment or condemnation (neither of which I have for our Catholic brothers and sisters). Try as I might, I cannot find a scriptural reason why the Catholic church worships Mary in so many forms and ways. Can anyone help me understand the reasoning behind the doctrine? Grace please, otherwise we shut it down Ok?. In the very simple of Scripture Matt 12:50 50 For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother." NKJV Matt 19:29-30 29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name's sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life. 30 But many who are first will be last, and the last first. NKJV This clearly the understanding... Love Steven I'm sorry, Steven, but to me the only clear that is, is 'clear as mud.' Could you explain a bit more, please? 'Cause I'm kinda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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