[Guest LadyC]

i'm not sweating it, nor crucifying him, nor saying the discussion has to end. i was simply pondering why it is that you never see a pre- or mid-tribber start these threads, and suggesting everyone bear in mind that this is not a salvational issue and should not become a tit for tat argument over who is right and who is wrong....

this is not a salvational issue. i'm sure we'll all be happy to see each other in heaven, no matter at what point we get there. can i please here an amen? or two or three or five hundred? then maybe it will drown out the accusations of heresy that are bound to arise.

They do start this kind of thread. Like it or not, the sin nature affects people on both sides of this camp and no one camp gets to claim innocence when vicious debates start.

i'm really not sure where you're getting the idea that i ever implied that the sin nature didn't effect all of us. it's just that in five years (six?) of being on this board, almost every thread i've ever seen on this subject was from one side. it's an observation. nothing more. i never implied that the other side doesn't sin. now can we quit turning this into an argument?

[Guest LadyC]

for the record candice, i haven't even said in this thread what my own position is, so chances are, you don't know if i'm a believer of the pre, mid, or post theories, or if i'm in the camp that believes that we're wasting our time speculating because we can't possibly know. so please, stop making this about me, and if you want to focus on what i said, focus on the whole point i was trying to get across, which is we need to NOT TURN THIS INTO AN ARGUMENT.

[OneLight]

I think the question that needs to be asked is, "Does the Lord return at the beginning, the middle, or the end of the Tribulation?"

I know we'd all love to know the answer to that question but it's not for us to know....yet. Whatever we say is pure speculation.

The two witness' mentioned in Revelation, does that event occur during the tribulation?

I'm actually not sure; I'll have to reread that but I THINK that event occurs before the tribulation.

It occurs during. They will prophesy for 3 1/2 years before they are killed. "When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them."

[Guest -RadicalMan-]

Most of the time i just state an opinion and within 24 hours quit watching a thread. The reason is to many take this issue and other non essential doctrines and beat them to death and the issue becomes personal. Such is the case with this thread which is why i will quit watching it. Folks need to grow up....life is not all about drama!

[OneLight]

Most of the time i just state an opinion and within 24 hours quit watching a thread. The reason is to many take this issue and other non essential doctrines and beat them to death and the issue becomes personal. Such is the case with this thread which is why i will quit watching it. Folks need to grow up....life is not all about drama!

I agree ...

Colossians 4:6

Let your speech always be with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer each one.

[traveller]

Well, I'm tickled pink to see this thread. I'd rather see the family discussing/arguing/debating the things in the word, getting to the meat of the matter, than discussing/arguing/debating politics or the things of the world. I don't even care that this is a subject that gets heated, or that gets brought up a lot. It does bother me to see comments about not discussing this issue, or to stop "worrying" about this issue and to get busy with something else. The thing is, each one of us has certain areas where we're currently studying, or pondering.

Simple solution - the ones that wish to discuss - stay and do so. The ones that don't - go to a thread where you want to contribute. The point is to read the word, study the word, discuss the word, and listen to what the other is saying. After all, this is a discussion board. It's what we do here.

And to the OP - welcome to Worthy

[rollinTHUNDER]

Well, I'm tickled pink to see this thread. I'd rather see the family discussing/arguing/debating the things in the word, getting to the meat of the matter, than discussing/arguing/debating politics or the things of the world. I don't even care that this is a subject that gets heated, or that gets brought up a lot. It does bother me to see comments about not discussing this issue, or to stop "worrying" about this issue and to get busy with something else. The thing is, each one of us has certain areas where we're currently studying, or pondering.

Simple solution - the ones that wish to discuss - stay and do so. The ones that don't - go to a thread where you want to contribute. The point is to read the word, study the word, discuss the word, and listen to what the other is saying. After all, this is a discussion board. It's what we do here.

And to the OP - welcome to Worthy

Hugs for you trav,

I agree with everything you said here. Some may think that prophecy or the rapture is not worth discussing, but that's a low blow to the very word of God. All scripture is equally important. Salvation is only the beginning of our walk in Christ. Prophecy, on the other hand, not only proves that the word of God is the truth, but it also lets us know what is coming, and gives us clear warning signs of the dangers ahead. If you remove prophecy from God's word, we would all be led like sheep to the slaughter. Mark of the beast, what's that? Prophecy has led many to salvation.

As far as salvation goes, I've only led a few people to Christ, but that wasn't my calling. I've been studying prophecy for 21 years now, and this is my calling. I didn't choose it, the Lord chose it for me. In fact, it was almost 22 years ago that He told me I was going to write. At the time He told me, I didn't even know what Bible prophecy was, and I wouldn't until about one year later. I know this will sound crazy to many people, even believers. And for this reason, I have only told two people on this board about it, until now, that is. I might as well go ahead and let the cat out of the bag now.

I have a book that is in the process of being published right now. It took me six years to write it, and another year to get it published. It uncovers and reveals many new clues about the rapture that have never been seen before. These clues have been hidden for almost 2000 years. I'm told the release date should be on or around January. For those that remember me from years past, now you know why I was missing in action for so long.

I didn't say all of this to over-hype my book, but I believe prophecy is just as important as any other facet in God's word. Peace to you all. And may the good Lord richly bless you as you study His word. And remember, He has promised to reward those who diligently seek Him.

Cheers

[Guest -RadicalMan-]

Trav,

I didn't take issue with the thread or the topic...lol...or i wouldn't have looked at it in the first place. However, i do have an issue with folks taking things personally and making the thread a drama issue instead of a biblical issue. Keeping the thread focused is all my contention was...on the subject matter...not personalities.

[traveller]

Trav,

I didn't take issue with the thread or the topic...lol...or i wouldn't have looked at it in the first place. However, i do have an issue with folks taking things personally and making the thread a drama issue instead of a biblical issue. Keeping the thread focused is all my contention was...on the subject matter...not personalities.

I know Radman! And I agree that it shouldn't be used as a drama issue - no topic should. (I don't see that in the OP here, BTW)

Reasoning the word with reasonable people! Go family! Lay those scriptures out!

[~candice~]

Well, I'm tickled pink to see this thread. I'd rather see the family discussing/arguing/debating the things in the word, getting to the meat of the matter, than discussing/arguing/debating politics or the things of the world. I don't even care that this is a subject that gets heated, or that gets brought up a lot. It does bother me to see comments about not discussing this issue, or to stop "worrying" about this issue and to get busy with something else. The thing is, each one of us has certain areas where we're currently studying, or pondering.

Simple solution - the ones that wish to discuss - stay and do so. The ones that don't - go to a thread where you want to contribute. The point is to read the word, study the word, discuss the word, and listen to what the other is saying. After all, this is a discussion board. It's what we do here.

And to the OP - welcome to Worthy

Exactly.

I learned a (hard) lesson when I was walking through the 'creation' type studies and debate... and that is, to read scripture for what it says, not trying to make it fit existing ideas. If it takes energy to make an idea fit scripture, it's probably not right. Rather read scripture to see what it says. Now when it came to studying eschatology, I (tried) to do just that, and reading plainly the scriptures of 1 Thess 4, Matt 24, Revelation, and studies others have written about Daniel, I quickly arrived at a post-trib position, from which I have not moved.

I am not suggesting that pretribbers have committed isogesis. I believe many of them have genuinely studied, with a pure heart, and still settled on the pretrib position. I just wanted to explain how I arrived where I am today on the eschatology front. I actually don't care what positions others take, but I do want to discuss it and I get sick of the baggage that comes with these threads. It IS a worthwhile topic from which we can glean meat.

I find Jesus' explanation to the disciples fascinating, because (with 1 Thess 4) it's about the clearest passages we get on eschatology (as in, not shrouded in prophetic language for which we could be uncertain of the meaning). I believe it explains a post trib rapture. Symbolically, I also take the fact that Noah and his family went through the physical affects of the flood, yet safely within the ark (covenant) as a clear metaphor that we (christians, not necessarily this generation, lets not go there yet ) are also going to be physically here and affected by the tribulation, but yet safely within His covenant.