Methodist Church: Homosexuality is a Gift, Not a Sin

[Guest shiloh357]

You want Scriptures to refute Original sin (the idea that we are responsible for the sins of Adam and Eve from birth)? Keep in mind in the Hebrew, "father" did not literally mean father, but any male direct male ancestor, including father, grandfather, great grandfather, etc.

First off, that is not the correct understanding of Original Sin. Orginal Sin is not that we are responsible for what Adam did, but that we inherited Adam's sin nature.

Adam was the reprentative or figurehead of man in the Garden of Eden. When Adam fell, we fell. We did not commit His sin collectively, but we collectively share in the consequence since all of humanity was in Adam.

In the Old Testament, in the Book of Ezekiel, God's people are rebuked for suggesting that the children would die/suffer for their father's sins:

Yes, but that is not a refutation of Original Sin. The "sins" we commit, we are responsible for. However, is the "sin nature" we inherit from Adam. We are not being held responsible for what Adam did, but all of humanity is born under a sentence of death, from which Christ went to the cross to redeem us. The result is the free gift of salvation offered to anyone who is willing to accept it.

[~candice~]

There is a difference between sin and sins, and it is why we must be born again, because that sin nature must die.

[Guest shiloh357]

I condemn any sexual activity outside of marriage as sinful. That includes homosexual activities.

I am sure that he is not promoting homosexual activities, but rather recognition that God made some attracted to the same sex and there is nothing to be ashamed about it.

Now I am confused. If there is nothing to be ashamed of, why is it sinful or condemned?

It is not sinful or condemned to be attracted to the same sex. According to most English Bible translations, it is only the sexual activities that are condemned and are sinful. Unless it can be proven otherwise that the original language texts also condemned the orientation, I will go with these translations...

That is not true. In scripture it is just as wrong to lust over a woman as it is to actually carry out the deed. Jesus said that if you lust in your heart, you have already sinned in committing adultery. Jesus teaches that it is not enough to simply avoid the act. There should be nothing in your heart to prompt the act in the first place.

I speak and read Hebrew, and in Hebrew, laws are behavioral paradigms. That means that a commandment is really broader than just the words on the page. The commandment, "you shall not murder" is also a commandment agasint the desire to murder. The commanmdent not to commit adultery is also a commandment against the desire to commit adultery. So your problem is a little bigger, than a translation issue. So when God says that homosexuality is wrong, he is, by extension says that the desire is wrong as well.

Think of it like this... would you want to live next to a grown man who had an unhealthy attraction to little girls, even if he never acted on that desire? Isn't the fact that potential exists for this man to act on those desires enough to make you think about living elsewhere?

[enoob57]

There's a difference, people aren't born with a desire to kill other people, or to steal from one another. These are activities that clearly hurt others, and are unconsentual on the part of the victim. However, having an attraction towards the same sex hurts no one.

Here is the light and heart of Scripture toward sin... The Son of God begged the Father for another way other than to bear our sin and have separation

from the Father for said sins... It was His utmost desire for Himself but resigned to the Father that His Will be done... so The Father's Will was already

written by the Son and to the Cross He went! Now if sin was so very vile and unwanted even though it would save His loved one's then... How is it that

He in us now would so readily accept such vileness in us? Do you honestly think sin has changed any to Him as far as it's vile and wicked self

centered desire to do only that which please self? Scripture says no

Rom 6:1-4

6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do

you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism

into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

NKJV

and this being true then this is clearly understood

Matt 6:22-24

22 "The lamp of the body is the eye. If therefore your eye is good, your whole body will be full of light. 23 But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full

of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is that darkness!

24 "No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot

serve God and mammon.

NKJV

We have a home we are going to and are instructed how that we should live there by living here under The Word of God's Authority and not our own and

simply if

you live in His light you will hate the sin

that is here and the battle to not allow the body to partake of it a daily struggle that will

end in victory in Christ Jesus!

Besides, once you accept that you have certain desires and urges, it is easier to control those urges and desires.

Christ did not come to give us peace in sin but war with them

Matt 10:34-39

34 "Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. 35 For I have come to 'set a man against his father, a daughter

against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law'; 36 and 'a man's enemies will be those of his own household.' 37 He who loves father

or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. 38 And he who does not take his cross and

follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39 He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.

NKJV

This war is simply understood this way-> do we put put anything before The Lord... even that of ourselves! For to recognize Him as the only value in the Eternities is to

cease with all else but Him and in the most gentle of all ways He direct your paths with His Precious Spirit within (it is why the Dove) any sin at all and you will lesson

the ability to see and hear God's desire and pleasure for that next step in your life... and if you are walking for Him how is it you are sinning? When He walked here

He never sinned in thought, deed, or desire... that alone makes Him the Unique of God and the very One I search daily to please but fail yet do not give up for He is

Worth the everything...

Love Steven

[nebula]

Children 200 years ago were not so disobedient at such a young age.

One - two year olds did not have to be trained to be obedient 200 years ago? Do you have evidence to back this claim?

[OneLight]

Old person vs. new person. Which should we accept? Should we continue to accept our old self knowing that there is forgiveness of sin, or do we accept that change in our hearts and minds according to the new creation the Holy Spirit has for us?

2 Corinthians 5:17

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

[Guest]

Heads Up~!

Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God?

whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain,

The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?

But he giveth more grace.

Wherefore he saith,

God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. James 4:4-7

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It is not sinful or condemned to be attracted to the same sex. According to most English Bible translations, it is only the sexual activities that are condemned and are sinful. Unless it can be proven otherwise that the original language texts also condemned the orientation, I will go with these translations...

Dear One

For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. Ephesians 5:12

Adding One's Understandings

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. Colossians 2:8

Above God's Holy Word Is Not Unusual

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. Matthew 5:28

But Unwise

Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.

But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.

The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.

Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.

For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish. Psalms 1

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Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Joe

[mizzdy]

Children 200 years ago were not so disobedient at such a young age.

One - two year olds did not have to be trained to be obedient 200 years ago? Do you have evidence to back this claim?

I tend to agree with the statement that kids were not as misbehaved or disobedient as they are today. What that means is that parents disciplined their kids and didn't treat them like little friends and playmates like so many do today. Kids haven't changed parents and the times have. Discipline or lack of doesn't have a thing to do with homosexuality if thats what this person is suggesting.

[nebula]

I tend to agree with the statement that kids were not as misbehaved or disobedient as they are today. What that means is that parents disciplined their kids and didn't treat them like little friends and playmates like so many do today. Kids haven't changed parents and the times have. Discipline or lack of doesn't have a thing to do with homosexuality if thats what this person is suggesting.

I think we're mixing arguments. Candice spoke of her two-year old. Byron responded with "children". And that is what I responded to. What you mention here seems to refer to older children.

[Byron A]

I tend to agree with the statement that kids were not as misbehaved or disobedient as they are today. What that means is that parents disciplined their kids and didn't treat them like little friends and playmates like so many do today. Kids haven't changed parents and the times have. Discipline or lack of doesn't have a thing to do with homosexuality if thats what this person is suggesting.

I think we're mixing arguments. Candice spoke of her two-year old. Byron responded with "children". And that is what I responded to. What you mention here seems to refer to older children.

No, it was brought up because original sin was an underlying assumption, that anyone born gay was because they were born corrupt do to our corrupt natures. My response was that babies are born innocent. Original sin comes into play because of the fallen nature of the world around us, not because of some kind of sin the baby was born with.

This, by the way, is the Eastern Orthodox understanding of original sin. Just thought I would point that out before someone accused the view of being New Age.