The Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3

[benny balerio]

Here is the verse in context:

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, my brothers, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,

2Th 2:2 that you should not be soon shaken in mind or troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word or letter, as through us, as if the Day of Christ is at hand.

2Th 2:3 Let not anyone deceive you by any means. For that Day shall not come unless there first comes a falling away, and the man of sin shall be revealed, the son of perdition,

2Th 2:4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, setting himself forth, that he is God.

It does seem to be about the Second coming, the only way this is about the rapture is if you believe that the rapture and the second coming are one and the same event (I do) but I was under the impression that only post tribbers believe that? Otherwise, are you suggesting Jesus is on earth during the Trib?

I can't see how this works, because 1 Thess 4 tells us that we will be with Him forever from that moment, so we wouldn't really be raptured to anywhere (Jesus is on earth) if this is pre trib.

Make sense?

GBU

Genesis 6:3, where God said,”My Spirit will not always strive with man.” This word comes from the Hebrew word which means to govern or rule, in whatever realm. One of the responsibilities of government is to restrain lawlessness, thus the Spirit of God is said to restrain lawlessness. Thus, as the Holy Spirit restrains lawlessnes in the world, the only one who has authority to remove that restraint is God. The Holy Spirit restrains sin in Christians (Rom 8:2 and others). The man of sin is literally the man of lawlessness, and will be the epitome of human lawlessness. Lawlessness that was already at work is being restrained until the ultimate expression of the lawlessness is revealed at the right time. God’s Holy Spirit has the function of restraining humanity’s lawlessness, and the AC is the ultimate expression of that lawlessness, it is apparently the Holy Spirit that prevents the AC from being revealed.

Daniel 12;1

At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise

The restrainer restrains “lawlessness,” globally, while Michael restrains enemy attacks against one nation, Israel.

Michael cannot be everywhere globally to restrain evil,..only the Holy spirit can do this.

Notice that the verse states..."AT THAT TIME"...and it seems that you are saying that Michael at that time will cease to protect Israel,..but of course,..we know that "at that time" Israel will flee into the wilderness,..and be protected there for 1,260 days......So who do you think is protecting Israel.."AT that Time?"

Revelation 12;6

6The woman fled into the desert to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.

Revelation 12;14

14The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the desert, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach

The one who is taken out of the way is the Bride who is indwelt by the Holy Spirit,....not Michael the Archangel.

Notice that the verse says..Will arise/Take charge.....when?......."At that Time"

Nothing here states that Michael is taken out of the way.

You seem to refuse to acknowledge that it is that Holy spirit that is taken out of the way.

So who was it that was restraining evil prior to the Day of Pentecost?...the answer is that it was the Holy Spirit who is omnipresent.

So!......If the Holy Spirit is omnipresent,..then why did the Lord send the Comforter?...is not the Comforter the Holy Spirit? How can you send someone who is already omnipresent?

The reason the Lord sent the Comforter was that He would indwell believers.

The Holy Spirit will not indwell a man unless he sincerely asks and Believes Jesus as his Lord and Savior.

The Holy Spirit will "only" seal a "true" believer with the promise of redemption.(God does not break promises)

And the result of being sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise is..."SAVED BY GRACE"

But those who enter Daniels 70th week and come to Jesus During those days,...Their salvation is conditional,...they must endure unto the end, and the same shall be saved.These are saved by faith that must be evidenced by their works of faith,...meaning that these were not saved by grace,...that these were not sealed of the Holy Spirit of promise when they first believed.

The reason why is because the Comforter no longer functions the same way as He did during the Church age,..Fore He was taken out of the way,..and since it is that the Holy spirit Indwells believers in the Church age,...then they too were caught up!(Taken out of the way)

The Holy Spirit did not indwell believers prior to the Day of Pentecost,..and as we can see,..the Holy Spirit will not be indwelling those who are left behind when the Rapture occurs.

[Ray B]

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, my brothers, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our GATHERING TOGETHER TO HIM, (This Gathering together to Him is The Rapture.)

2Th 2:2 that you should not be soon shaken in mind or troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word or letter, as through us, as if the DAY OF CHRIST IS AT HAND. (Day of Christ = Day of the Rapture)

2Th 2:3 Let not anyone deceive you by any means. For THAT DAY shall not come unless there first comes a FALLING AWAY, and the man of sin shall be revealed, the son of perdition, (That Day = Day of Rapture)

(There are some who would change the Word of GOD to line up with their man made doctrines and say the FALLING AWAY in 2 Thess 2:3 is speaking of the Rapture of the Church if that would be the truth how much sence would 2Thess 2:3 make if we replaced the phrase FALLING AWAY with the word RAPTURE. Here is DR. Ice's 2 Thess 2:3 Let not anyone deceive you by any means. for THE DAY OF THE RAPTURE shall not come unless there first comes a RAPTURE, and the man of sin shall be revealed, the son of perdition, { Dr. Ice Doesn't make much sence does he, well this is where some of the deception spoken of in these very verses are coming from} The Scripture will always speak the Truth it is man's commentary on Scripture where deception comes in.)

[Bold Believer]

The Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3

by Dr. Thomas Ice

Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

-2 Thessalonians 2:3

I believe that there is a strong possibility that 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is speaking of the rapture. What do I mean? Some pretribulationists, like myself, tink that the Greek noun apostasia, usually translated "apostasy," is a reference to the rapture and should be translated "departure." Thus, this passage would be saying that the day of the Lord will not come until the rapture comes before it. If apostasia is a reference to a physical departure, then 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is strong evidence for pretribulationism.

Find the full article here: http://www.pre-trib.org/articles/view/rapture-in-2-thessalonians-23

No, PeterH, apostasia (Greek) means defection (which is a kind of departure, I guess); abandonment of what one has voluntarily professed.

An apostate is one who deserts professed principles or faith; a renegade.

Construing the word apostasia to mean "departure" from the earth, rather than "defection," which is its meaning in Greek, French, Latin and English, is patently wrong.

There is NO WAY on God's green earth that apostasia can mean anything else but departure from a standard. There are other Greek words which mean departure from a place and Paul didn't use them here.

Chorizo in Acts 1:4 when the Believers were told not to depart from Jerusalem.

exerchomai in Acts 16:36 and 16:39 at the release of Paul

exeimi in Acts 20:7 referring to Paul's leaving the next day

apolyo in Acts 23:20 referring to the release of one in custody

ekporeuomai in Acts 25:4 when Festus stated that Paul should be kept at Caesarea but that he himself would depart shortly

anagō in Acts 27:12 as a nautical reference meaning to put to sea or leave port

aphistēmi in 2 Cor 12:8 referring to his infirmity when Paul asked God to make it depart from him

hypagō in James 2:16 meaning to go away in peace (the famous prove faith by your works passage)

The good Dr. Ice is wrong...on many points.

[PeterH]

The Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3

by Dr. Thomas Ice

Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

-2 Thessalonians 2:3

I believe that there is a strong possibility that 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is speaking of the rapture. What do I mean? Some pretribulationists, like myself, tink that the Greek noun apostasia, usually translated "apostasy," is a reference to the rapture and should be translated "departure." Thus, this passage would be saying that the day of the Lord will not come until the rapture comes before it. If apostasia is a reference to a physical departure, then 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is strong evidence for pretribulationism.

Find the full article here: http://www.pre-trib.org/articles/view/rapture-in-2-thessalonians-23

No, PeterH, apostasia (Greek) means defection (which is a kind of departure, I guess); abandonment of what one has voluntarily professed.

An apostate is one who deserts professed principles or faith; a renegade.

Construing the word apostasia to mean "departure" from the earth, rather than "defection," which is its meaning in Greek, French, Latin and English, is patently wrong.

There is NO WAY on God's green earth that apostasia can mean anything else but departure from a standard. There are other Greek words which mean departure from a place and Paul didn't use them here.

Chorizo in Acts 1:4 when the Believers were told not to depart from Jerusalem.

exerchomai in Acts 16:36 and 16:39 at the release of Paul

exeimi in Acts 20:7 referring to Paul's leaving the next day

apolyo in Acts 23:20 referring to the release of one in custody

ekporeuomai in Acts 25:4 when Festus stated that Paul should be kept at Caesarea but that he himself would depart shortly

anagō in Acts 27:12 as a nautical reference meaning to put to sea or leave port

aphistēmi in 2 Cor 12:8 referring to his infirmity when Paul asked God to make it depart from him

hypagō in James 2:16 meaning to go away in peace (the famous prove faith by your works passage)

The good Dr. Ice is wrong...on many points.

Thank you Bold Believer,

That's exactly the explanation I was looking for. It's hard for a laymen like myself to discount Doctors like the person I quoted in my original post.

[Bold Believer]

The Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3

by Dr. Thomas Ice

Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

-2 Thessalonians 2:3

I believe that there is a strong possibility that 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is speaking of the rapture. What do I mean? Some pretribulationists, like myself, think that the Greek noun apostasia, usually translated "apostasy," is a reference to the rapture and should be translated "departure." Thus, this passage would be saying that the day of the Lord will not come until the rapture comes before it. If apostasia is a reference to a physical departure, then 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is strong evidence for pretribulationism.

Find the full article here: http://www.pre-trib.org/articles/view/rapture-in-2-thessalonians-23

No, PeterH, apostasia (Greek) means defection (which is a kind of departure, I guess); abandonment of what one has voluntarily professed.

An apostate is one who deserts professed principles or faith; a renegade.

Construing the word apostasia to mean "departure" from the earth, rather than "defection," which is its meaning in Greek, French, Latin and English, is patently wrong.

There is NO WAY on God's green earth that apostasia can mean anything else but departure from a standard. There are other Greek words which mean departure from a place and Paul didn't use them here.

Chorizo in Acts 1:4 when the Believers were told not to depart from Jerusalem.

exerchomai in Acts 16:36 and 16:39 at the release of Paul

exeimi in Acts 20:7 referring to Paul's leaving the next day

apolyo in Acts 23:20 referring to the release of one in custody

ekporeuomai in Acts 25:4 when Festus stated that Paul should be kept at Caesarea but that he himself would depart shortly

anagō in Acts 27:12 as a nautical reference meaning to put to sea or leave port

aphistēmi in 2 Cor 12:8 referring to his infirmity when Paul asked God to make it depart from him

hypagō in James 2:16 meaning to go away in peace (the famous prove faith by your works passage)

The good Dr. Ice is wrong...on many points.

Thank you Bold Believer,

That's exactly the explanation I was looking for. It's hard for a laymen like myself to discount Doctors like the person I quoted in my original post.

Anytime brother. And the well educated are not always wrong. More often than not, they are close to correct. This time unfortunately, the opposite is true. Dr. Ice's supposition is tainted by his need to prove his theology, hence of course apostasia would 'make more sense' if it could be translated as departure from a place. The question is not whether apostasia should be translated departure, but what KIND of departure.

[Guest yod]

I don't see any place in the scriptures where the good are "taken away".

The wicked are taken away, and the meek inherit the land.

[rollinTHUNDER]

I don't see any place in the scriptures where the good are "taken away".

The wicked are taken away, and the meek inherit the land.

In Matthew 24, when Christ sends the angels to gather His elect, where one man in the field is taken, and one woman working in the mill is taken, do you suppose these are wicked? If so, why is He warning that we must be ready?

Christ sheds more light on this in the next parable. The five wise virgins that were ready are taken by the Bridegroom, do you also suppose that they are wicked as well?

[goldust59]

I don't see any place in the scriptures where the good are "taken away".

The wicked are taken away, and the meek inherit the land.

In Matthew 24, when Christ sends the angels to gather His elect, where one man in the field is taken, and one woman working in the mill is taken, do you suppose these are wicked? If so, why is He warning that we must be ready?

Christ sheds more light on this in the next parable. The five wise virgins that were ready are taken by the Bridegroom, do you also suppose that they are wicked as well?

rT , I don't understand how you are getting that the ones taken are the elect. In Noah's day the wicked were taken & taken by surprise as seen in Matt 24:38,39.~For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating & drinking, marrying & giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Noah wasn't the one that "knew not" what was coming. The verse says that it will be the same at the end; so since the wicked were taken in Noah's day, the wicked will also be taken at the end. Noah was warned before the judgement & we have been too.

I think you are reading more into the parable of the virgins than is actually there. It does not say that the bridegroom takes them anywhere. They go out to meet Him & enter in to the marriage. The door is also shut at that time. If the foolish virgins have been left behind (as a result of a 'taking') , how do they have access to this door that they cannot enter? They come & cry to the Lord to 'open to them' & He answers that He does not know them.

[JohnD]

The King James Version

Selected Text Strong's Greek #646 ...come, except there come a falling away first, and that man ... 646 apostasia { ap-os-tas-ee’-ah} feminine of the same as 647; TDNT - 1:513,88; n f AV - to forsake + 575 1, falling away 1; 2 GK - 686 { ἀποστασία } 1) a falling away, defection, apostasy

How can the going UP to meet Christ in the clouds have anything to do with falling away?

[OneLight]

I don't see any place in the scriptures where the good are "taken away".

The wicked are taken away, and the meek inherit the land.

In Matthew 24, when Christ sends the angels to gather His elect, where one man in the field is taken, and one woman working in the mill is taken, do you suppose these are wicked? If so, why is He warning that we must be ready?

Christ sheds more light on this in the next parable. The five wise virgins that were ready are taken by the Bridegroom, do you also suppose that they are wicked as well?

rT , I don't understand how you are getting that the ones taken are the elect. In Noah's day the wicked were taken & taken by surprise as seen in Matt 24:38,39.~For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating & drinking, marrying & giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Noah wasn't the one that "knew not" what was coming. The verse says that it will be the same at the end; so since the wicked were taken in Noah's day, the wicked will also be taken at the end. Noah was warned before the judgement & we have been too.

I think you are reading more into the parable of the virgins than is actually there. It does not say that the bridegroom takes them anywhere. They go out to meet Him & enter in to the marriage. The door is also shut at that time. If the foolish virgins have been left behind (as a result of a 'taking') , how do they have access to this door that they cannot enter? They come & cry to the Lord to 'open to them' & He answers that He does not know them.

The verses in Matthew tells us of how the world will be just before Christ returns. It has nothing to do with who will be caught up with Christ.