Faith

[Fez]

Can the spiritual gift of faith (not the saving faith we all have to have to believe), be given to us by the Holy Spirit for a certain instance. To achieve something that He wishes us to achieve?

I guess what I am saying is can we be given this gift to achieve something that is the desire of our heart (to heal a loved one in His name for instance), as a one off gift, to be given, perhaps at another stage in our lives for something similar?

And yes I understand that if it is His will and our desire, He may give us this gift unconditionally.

1 Corinthians 12:11 tells us "But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills." This is a powerful statement that tells us He will distribute according to His will. It can be a one time gift, a repeating gift, or an on going gift. He determines who receives the gift, when it is received and for how long the person will have it. Yes, it can be for a one time event as well as an ongoing gift. We all have our ministry, with the proper gift(s) to accomplish His work. Again, I am beginning to believe that the gift of faith is required when another gift is given. We, using just the faith we have in Him, may not compel us enough to step out in that faith to work in the realm of the spiritual gifts.

Again, I am beginning to believe that the gift of faith is required when another gift is given. We, using just the faith we have in Him, may not compel us enough to step out in that faith to work in the realm of the spiritual gifts.

I get your point. Need to do a bit more reading on the subject....

[PeterH]

1 Corinthians 12 does not list love or hope as a gift. Love is the greatest, but it is not a gift given to us by the Holy Spirit as in the gifts I listed.

True 1 Corinthians 12 doesn't mention Love but chapter 13 is a continuation of the thoughts expressed in chapter 12. If you don't see Love and Hope as spiritual gifts I guess we just don't see eye to eye on that matter.

They are given to us by the Spirit upon salvation, but are not listed as gifts of the Spirit. The explanation in chapter 13 tells us rightly that if we don't have love, we have nothing, no matter if we have all the gifts. Can you show me where hope and love are listed as one of the gifts given by the Spirit for the operations within the body, as listed in chapter 12?

As you stated I also believe that hope and love are given to us by the Spirit when we accept the salvation of Jesus Christ. And since I can not earn anything prior to salvation they are gifts from the Holy Spirit freely given. By the way I say prior to salvation because there will be rewards in heaven based on our how we use our gifts we receive after we are saved. When I read chapter 12 what pops out at me is that Paul is describing gifts that would be pretty obvious if displayed. Then I read chapter 13 and what pops out is Paul showing them the gift that binds all believers together because we all have it. I believe love is the gift that even though it's not always obvious should be exercised the most because without love the other gifts would not build up the body of Christ.

Also, I don't think that the list given in chapter 12 is the end all be all list of Spiritual gifts mainly because I don't think the Holy Spirit is limited to that list even though it is fairly encompassing. Again this is just how I see it but when chapter 13 verse 13 list hope and love next to faith, which has already been listed and established as a gift in chapter 12, I assume that hope and love are being added to the list. Chapter 13 verse 13 I believe states that faith, hope and love are the key or foundational gifts which are given to all who are saved and love is the greatest.

[OneLight]

1 Corinthians 12 does not list love or hope as a gift. Love is the greatest, but it is not a gift given to us by the Holy Spirit as in the gifts I listed.

True 1 Corinthians 12 doesn't mention Love but chapter 13 is a continuation of the thoughts expressed in chapter 12. If you don't see Love and Hope as spiritual gifts I guess we just don't see eye to eye on that matter.

They are given to us by the Spirit upon salvation, but are not listed as gifts of the Spirit. The explanation in chapter 13 tells us rightly that if we don't have love, we have nothing, no matter if we have all the gifts. Can you show me where hope and love are listed as one of the gifts given by the Spirit for the operations within the body, as listed in chapter 12?

As you stated I also believe that hope and love are given to us by the Spirit when we accept the salvation of Jesus Christ. And since I can not earn anything prior to salvation they are gifts from the Holy Spirit freely given. By the way I say prior to salvation because there will be rewards in heaven based on our how we use our gifts we receive after we are saved. When I read chapter 12 what pops out at me is that Paul is describing gifts that would be pretty obvious if displayed. Then I read chapter 13 and what pops out is Paul showing them the gift that binds all believers together because we all have it. I believe love is the gift that even though it's not always obvious should be exercised the most because without love the other gifts would not build up the body of Christ.

Also, I don't think that the list given in chapter 12 is the end all be all list of Spiritual gifts mainly because I don't think the Holy Spirit is limited to that list even though it is fairly encompassing. Again this is just how I see it but when chapter 13 verse 13 list hope and love next to faith, which has already been listed and established as a gift in chapter 12, I assume that hope and love are being added to the list. Chapter 13 verse 13 I believe states that faith, hope and love are the key or foundational gifts which are given to all who are saved and love is the greatest.

I agree with moist of what you wrote. Where I am having a hard time is that faith (saving), hope (in God) and love (the love from Christ) are given to everyone when they are saved. The gifts in chapter 12 are not given to everyone, so they are different then what everyone has. The Holy Spirit gives gifts as He wills, meaning not everyone will have them. This is verified as you read further in chapter 12. We also read in 1 Corinthians 14:1 "Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy." If love was in fact one of the gifts, it would not of been mentioned aside from the spiritual gifts.

What other gifts do you feel the Holy Spirit gives which are not mentioned in scripture, or in 1 Cor 12?

[PeterH]

1 Corinthians 12 does not list love or hope as a gift. Love is the greatest, but it is not a gift given to us by the Holy Spirit as in the gifts I listed.

True 1 Corinthians 12 doesn't mention Love but chapter 13 is a continuation of the thoughts expressed in chapter 12. If you don't see Love and Hope as spiritual gifts I guess we just don't see eye to eye on that matter.

They are given to us by the Spirit upon salvation, but are not listed as gifts of the Spirit. The explanation in chapter 13 tells us rightly that if we don't have love, we have nothing, no matter if we have all the gifts. Can you show me where hope and love are listed as one of the gifts given by the Spirit for the operations within the body, as listed in chapter 12?

As you stated I also believe that hope and love are given to us by the Spirit when we accept the salvation of Jesus Christ. And since I can not earn anything prior to salvation they are gifts from the Holy Spirit freely given. By the way I say prior to salvation because there will be rewards in heaven based on our how we use our gifts we receive after we are saved. When I read chapter 12 what pops out at me is that Paul is describing gifts that would be pretty obvious if displayed. Then I read chapter 13 and what pops out is Paul showing them the gift that binds all believers together because we all have it. I believe love is the gift that even though it's not always obvious should be exercised the most because without love the other gifts would not build up the body of Christ.

Also, I don't think that the list given in chapter 12 is the end all be all list of Spiritual gifts mainly because I don't think the Holy Spirit is limited to that list even though it is fairly encompassing. Again this is just how I see it but when chapter 13 verse 13 list hope and love next to faith, which has already been listed and established as a gift in chapter 12, I assume that hope and love are being added to the list. Chapter 13 verse 13 I believe states that faith, hope and love are the key or foundational gifts which are given to all who are saved and love is the greatest.

I agree with moist of what you wrote. Where I am having a hard time is that faith (saving), hope (in God) and love (the love from Christ) are given to everyone when they are saved. The gifts in chapter 12 are not given to everyone, so they are different then what everyone has. The Holy Spirit gives gifts as He wills, meaning not everyone will have them. This is verified as you read further in chapter 12. We also read in 1 Corinthians 14:1 "Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy." If love was in fact one of the gifts, it would not of been mentioned aside from the spiritual gifts.

What other gifts do you feel the Holy Spirit gives which are not mentioned in scripture, or in 1 Cor 12?

First let me clear up what I think is a misunderstanding. I don't think everyone gets all the Spiritual gifts. The Holy Spirit gives us gifts as He sees fit but Paul does tell us to pray for certain ones. the NKJV and KJV of Corinthians 14:1 I think almost loses something in the old English poetic style in which they are written. I personally like the NLT of this verse which states " Let love be your highest goal! But you should also desire the special abilities the Spirit gives—especially the ability to prophesy."

So I'm saying that there are three gifts (at least) given to everyone by the Holy Spirit which are Love, Hope and Faith. Then there are other gifts that are not given to everyone like the ones you mentioned in your original post. I also said that the list given in 1 Corinthians 12 is not the complete list and that the Holy Spirit is not limited to it. Just a few other gifts found in scripture are exhortation, giving, leadership, mercy, service, teaching, and evangelism. Any ability you have that you use to build up the body of Christ can be considered a gift of the Spirit in my opinion.

[OneLight]

Everything we receive from God is a gift, even the Holy Spirit is considered a gift from God. but I am speaking specifically of the operations of the gifts given us through the Holy Spirit.

The only other place I found where any "list" outside of 1 Corinthians 12 is Romans 12:3-8 "For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith. For as we have many members in one body, but all the members do not have the same function, so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another. Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, let us prophesy in proportion to our faith; or ministry, let us use it in our ministering; he who teaches, in teaching; he who exhorts, in exhortation; he who gives, with liberality; he who leads, with diligence; he who shows mercy, with cheerfulness."

When I read this in the Greek, the word "or" separates the gift from the ministry, meaning to me that these are two different subjects. First, Paul mentions the gift of prophecy. Then he speaks of different ministries: ministering; teaching; exhortation; giving; being a leader and showing mercy. Though these are all given to the church as gifts from God, ministry and gifts are separate, though they can be used in conjunction with each other.

I see where we are talking on the same line and that we believe the same way, set aside that I divide the gifts of the Spirit from the ministry through the Spirit.

[mizzdy]

Can someone help me out here, where does it say in scripture there are two kinds of faith, a saving faith and another kind of faith? When I tried just googling 'two kinds of faith' I get mostly Calvin and 'Heidelberg Catechism' sites and that kind of stuff. And according to Calvin or the person writing about him says that saving faith is only for the sinner.

To me faith is well faith, we first know our need for a Savior, we come to Him in budding faith, and as we grow and mature that faith or trust grows stronger and stronger. I am coming up blank for scriptures that show two kinds of faith for the believer.

shalom,

Mizz

[OneLight]

Can someone help me out here, where does it say in scripture there are two kinds of faith, a saving faith and another kind of faith? When I tried just googling 'two kinds of faith' I get mostly Calvin and 'Heidelberg Catechism' sites and that kind of stuff. And according to Calvin or the person writing about him says that saving faith is only for the sinner.

To me faith is well faith, we first know our need for a Savior, we come to Him in budding faith, and as we grow and mature that faith or trust grows stronger and stronger. I am coming up blank for scriptures that show two kinds of faith for the believer.

shalom,

Mizz

No need to "Google", it is right there in scripture.

The first faith is the faith required for salvation: Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, ". Everyone has this type, or amount of faith, if they are saved.

The second faith is the gift of faith given by the Holy Spirit, as found in 1 Corinthians 12:9a:

"4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord.

6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all.

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:

8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit,

9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit,

10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.

11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills."

If everyone has faith that saves and the gift of faith is given only by the Holy Spirit as He wills, they have to be two different faiths. I see the gift He gives as much supernatural as the working of miracles.

[mizzdy]

Can someone help me out here, where does it say in scripture there are two kinds of faith, a saving faith and another kind of faith? When I tried just googling 'two kinds of faith' I get mostly Calvin and 'Heidelberg Catechism' sites and that kind of stuff. And according to Calvin or the person writing about him says that saving faith is only for the sinner.

To me faith is well faith, we first know our need for a Savior, we come to Him in budding faith, and as we grow and mature that faith or trust grows stronger and stronger. I am coming up blank for scriptures that show two kinds of faith for the believer.

shalom,

Mizz

No need to "Google", it is right there in scripture.

The first faith is the faith required for salvation: Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, ". Everyone has this type, or amount of faith, if they are saved.

The second faith is the gift of faith given by the Holy Spirit, as found in 1 Corinthians 12:9a:

"4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord.

6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all.

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:

8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit,

9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit,

10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.

11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills."

If everyone has faith that saves and the gift of faith is given only by the Holy Spirit as He wills, they have to be two different faiths. I see the gift He gives as much supernatural as the working of miracles.

I'm going to have to give that some thought, I still do not see two kinds of faith. I see that one person can be given a stronger faith to move that mountain so to speak, or have his faith increased to do a specific work, where another is given strength in another area, thats how I take the verses above.

shalom,

Mizz

[~candice~]

Can someone help me out here, where does it say in scripture there are two kinds of faith, a saving faith and another kind of faith? When I tried just googling 'two kinds of faith' I get mostly Calvin and 'Heidelberg Catechism' sites and that kind of stuff. And according to Calvin or the person writing about him says that saving faith is only for the sinner.

To me faith is well faith, we first know our need for a Savior, we come to Him in budding faith, and as we grow and mature that faith or trust grows stronger and stronger. I am coming up blank for scriptures that show two kinds of faith for the believer.

shalom,

Mizz

No need to "Google", it is right there in scripture.

The first faith is the faith required for salvation: Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, ". Everyone has this type, or amount of faith, if they are saved.

The second faith is the gift of faith given by the Holy Spirit, as found in 1 Corinthians 12:9a:

"4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord.

6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all.

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:

8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit,

9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit,

10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.

11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills."

If everyone has faith that saves and the gift of faith is given only by the Holy Spirit as He wills, they have to be two different faiths. I see the gift He gives as much supernatural as the working of miracles.

[OneLight]

Can someone help me out here, where does it say in scripture there are two kinds of faith, a saving faith and another kind of faith? When I tried just googling 'two kinds of faith' I get mostly Calvin and 'Heidelberg Catechism' sites and that kind of stuff. And according to Calvin or the person writing about him says that saving faith is only for the sinner.

To me faith is well faith, we first know our need for a Savior, we come to Him in budding faith, and as we grow and mature that faith or trust grows stronger and stronger. I am coming up blank for scriptures that show two kinds of faith for the believer.

shalom,

Mizz

No need to "Google", it is right there in scripture.

The first faith is the faith required for salvation: Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, ". Everyone has this type, or amount of faith, if they are saved.

The second faith is the gift of faith given by the Holy Spirit, as found in 1 Corinthians 12:9a:

"4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord.

6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all.

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:

8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit,

9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit,

10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.

11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills."

If everyone has faith that saves and the gift of faith is given only by the Holy Spirit as He wills, they have to be two different faiths. I see the gift He gives as much supernatural as the working of miracles.

I'm going to have to give that some thought, I still do not see two kinds of faith. I see that one person can be given a stronger faith to move that mountain so to speak, or have his faith increased to do a specific work, where another is given strength in another area, thats how I take the verses above.

shalom,

Mizz

I used the term for a lack of a better way to explain it. Faith is faith, and I should of stated the explanation by the amount of faith one has. That may be better. Yet, there is a difference no matter how it is worded.