angel or saint?

[goldust59]

In Revelation we see an angel talking with John. Here are the scriptures:

Rev 17:1~And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will show unto thee the judgement of the great whore that sits on many waters:

Rev 21:9~And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will show thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

I have always seen the angels that poured out the wrath as angels of heaven & reading tonight noticed something I hadn't before in these scriptures:

Rev 19:10~And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Rev 22:8,9~And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard & seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which showed me these things. Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

I have never seen the heavenly angels called brethren, only the saints.

Thoughts?

[ears]

iI have never picked that out before either, and not only brethren but prophets. For it reads, and of thy brethren the prophets,and of them which keep the sayings of this book. I sure hope there will be allot of discussion on this thread. It is most interesting...Thanks so much.

[chloe_fantastic]

Revelation 18:21-19:10

Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, “Thus with violence the great city Babylon shall be thrown down, and shall not be found anymore. 22 The sound of harpists, musicians, flutists, and trumpeters shall not be heard in you anymore. No craftsman of any craft shall be found in you anymore, and the sound of a millstone shall not be heard in you anymore. 23 The light of a lamp shall not shine in you anymore, and the voice of bridegroom and bride shall not be heard in you anymore. For your merchants were the great men of the earth, for by your sorcery all the nations were deceived. 24 And in her was found the blood of prophets and saints, and of all who were slain on the earth.” 1 After these things I heard a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying, “Alleluia! Salvation and glory and honor and power belong to the Lord our God! 2 For true and righteous are His judgments, because He has judged the great harlot who corrupted the earth with her fornication; and He has avenged on her the blood of His servants shed by her.” 3 Again they said, “Alleluia! Her smoke rises up forever and ever!” 4 And the twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God who sat on the throne, saying, “Amen! Alleluia!” 5 Then a voice came from the throne, saying, “Praise our God, all you His servants and those who fear Him, both small and great!”

6 And I heard, as it were, the voice of a great multitude, as the sound of many waters and as the sound of mighty thunderings, saying, “Alleluia! For the Lord God Omnipotent reigns! 7 Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.” 8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.

9 Then he said to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are those who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb!’” And he said to me, “These are the true sayings of God.” 10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “See that you do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”

Revelation 22:8,9

And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard & seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which showed me these things. Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

The text itself says plainly that the being that is speaking to John is an angel, so we know that. The angel protests when John begins to worship the angel. Calling itself a fellow servant is demonstrating to John that it is not a deity nor should it be worshipped as such, but rather that, like John himself is a servant of God.

[goldust59]

iI have never picked that out before either, and not only brethren but prophets. For it reads, and of thy brethren the prophets,and of them which keep the sayings of this book. I sure hope there will be allot of discussion on this thread. It is most interesting...Thanks so much.

Me too. I love it when the Spirit points something out after I have read the words countless times & not seen it before!

[goldust59]

Revelation 18:21-19:10

Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, “Thus with violence the great city Babylon shall be thrown down, and shall not be found anymore. 22 The sound of harpists, musicians, flutists, and trumpeters shall not be heard in you anymore. No craftsman of any craft shall be found in you anymore, and the sound of a millstone shall not be heard in you anymore. 23 The light of a lamp shall not shine in you anymore, and the voice of bridegroom and bride shall not be heard in you anymore. For your merchants were the great men of the earth, for by your sorcery all the nations were deceived. 24 And in her was found the blood of prophets and saints, and of all who were slain on the earth.” 1 After these things I heard a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying, “Alleluia! Salvation and glory and honor and power belong to the Lord our God! 2 For true and righteous are His judgments, because He has judged the great harlot who corrupted the earth with her fornication; and He has avenged on her the blood of His servants shed by her.” 3 Again they said, “Alleluia! Her smoke rises up forever and ever!” 4 And the twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God who sat on the throne, saying, “Amen! Alleluia!” 5 Then a voice came from the throne, saying, “Praise our God, all you His servants and those who fear Him, both small and great!”

6 And I heard, as it were, the voice of a great multitude, as the sound of many waters and as the sound of mighty thunderings, saying, “Alleluia! For the Lord God Omnipotent reigns! 7 Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.” 8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.

9 Then he said to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are those who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb!’” And he said to me, “These are the true sayings of God.” 10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “See that you do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”

Revelation 22:8,9

And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard & seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which showed me these things. Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

The text itself says plainly that the being that is speaking to John is an angel, so we know that. The angel protests when John begins to worship the angel. Calling itself a fellow servant is demonstrating to John that it is not a deity nor should it be worshipped as such, but rather that, like John himself is a servant of God.

The text says angel & that is how I had always seen it too, but certain words & phrases do not fit the heavenly angels. The angels are not our 'fellows' or 'brethren'. The word 'fellow' indicates a peer- a person of equal rank, position, or background. Heavenly angels & saints are not 'fellows' to one another. The angels are ministering spirits to the saints. (Hebrews 1:14~ Are they (angels) not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for them who shall be called heirs of salvation.)

The saints are the brethren of Jesus & of one another. (Hebrews 2:11~For both He that sanctifies and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause He is not ashamed to call them brethren.)

The Book of Revelation was written for the saints & the saints are to 'keep the sayings of the book', not the angels.

I am not saying at this point that every time angel is mentioned in Revelation that it is referring to saints, but in this case it looks to me like it is.

[goldust59]

Bump

[other one]

Revelation 18:21-19:10

Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, “Thus with violence the great city Babylon shall be thrown down, and shall not be found anymore. 22 The sound of harpists, musicians, flutists, and trumpeters shall not be heard in you anymore. No craftsman of any craft shall be found in you anymore, and the sound of a millstone shall not be heard in you anymore. 23 The light of a lamp shall not shine in you anymore, and the voice of bridegroom and bride shall not be heard in you anymore. For your merchants were the great men of the earth, for by your sorcery all the nations were deceived. 24 And in her was found the blood of prophets and saints, and of all who were slain on the earth.” 1 After these things I heard a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying, “Alleluia! Salvation and glory and honor and power belong to the Lord our God! 2 For true and righteous are His judgments, because He has judged the great harlot who corrupted the earth with her fornication; and He has avenged on her the blood of His servants shed by her.” 3 Again they said, “Alleluia! Her smoke rises up forever and ever!” 4 And the twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God who sat on the throne, saying, “Amen! Alleluia!” 5 Then a voice came from the throne, saying, “Praise our God, all you His servants and those who fear Him, both small and great!”

6 And I heard, as it were, the voice of a great multitude, as the sound of many waters and as the sound of mighty thunderings, saying, “Alleluia! For the Lord God Omnipotent reigns! 7 Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.” 8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.

9 Then he said to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are those who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb!’” And he said to me, “These are the true sayings of God.” 10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “See that you do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”

Revelation 22:8,9

And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard & seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which showed me these things. Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

The text itself says plainly that the being that is speaking to John is an angel, so we know that. The angel protests when John begins to worship the angel. Calling itself a fellow servant is demonstrating to John that it is not a deity nor should it be worshipped as such, but rather that, like John himself is a servant of God.

The text says angel & that is how I had always seen it too, but certain words & phrases do not fit the heavenly angels. The angels are not our 'fellows' or 'brethren'. The word 'fellow' indicates a peer- a person of equal rank, position, or background. Heavenly angels & saints are not 'fellows' to one another. The angels are ministering spirits to the saints. (Hebrews 1:14~ Are they (angels) not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for them who shall be called heirs of salvation.)

The saints are the brethren of Jesus & of one another. (Hebrews 2:11~For both He that sanctifies and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause He is not ashamed to call them brethren.)

The Book of Revelation was written for the saints & the saints are to 'keep the sayings of the book', not the angels.

I am not saying at this point that every time angel is mentioned in Revelation that it is referring to saints, but in this case it looks to me like it is.

I think I would disagree dust. When we are born of the spirit I think we do become fellow servants of the Lord along with the angels. We do become part of the Kingdom of God and become alien to the kingdom of this world.

[nebula]

Rev 19:10~And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Rev 22:8,9~And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard & seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which showed me these things. Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

I have never seen the heavenly angels called brethren, only the saints.

Thoughts?

Actually, I am reading this to say, "I am thy fellow servant, and [the fellow servant of] thy bretheren . . . ."

Make sense?

[Guest shiloh357]

Rev 19:10~And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Rev 22:8,9~And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard & seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which showed me these things. Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

I have never seen the heavenly angels called brethren, only the saints.

The angel is not saying he is one of the brethren. He is saying that he is a fellow servant (of God) with Paul as well as a fellow servant (of God) with Paul's brethren the prophets and those who keep the testimony of Jesus.

[PeterH]

Rev 19:10~And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Rev 22:8,9~And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard & seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which showed me these things. Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

I have never seen the heavenly angels called brethren, only the saints.

Thoughts?

Actually, I am reading this to say, "I am thy fellow servant, and [the fellow servant of] thy bretheren . . . ."

Make sense?

I see it as "I am thy fellow servant, and [fellow] of thy brethren the prophets and [fellow] of them which keep the sayings of this book" The angel is identifying itself as equal to John as a servant, and the prophets and to everyone else that keeps the saying of this book aka the Bible. By doing so the angel is saying he's not worthy of worship and the angel points to God as worthy of worship.