Omniscience

[Guest]

Descriptive knowledge, also declarative knowledge or propositional knowledge, is the species of knowledge that is, by its very nature, expressed in declarative sentences or indicative propositions. This distinguishes descriptive knowledge from what is commonly known as "know-how", or procedural knowledge (the knowledge of how, and especially how best, to perform some task), and "knowing of", or knowledge by acquaintance (the knowledge of something's existence).

The difference between knowledge and beliefs is as follows:. A belief is an internal thought or memory which exists in one's mind. Most people accept that for a belief to be knowledge it must be, at least, true and justified. The Gettier problem in philosophy is the question of whether there are any other requirements before a belief can be accepted as knowledge.

The article Knowledge (philosophy) discusses the view of philosophers on how one can tell which beliefs constitute actual knowledge.

http://en.wikipedia....ptive_knowledge

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Propositional Knowledge

But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 1 Corinthians 2:10

Starts And Ends

Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. Isaiah 55:7-9

With Jesus

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6

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Experiential knowledge is knowledge gained through experience as opposed to a priori (before experience) knowledge. In the philosophy of mind, the phrase often refers to knowledge that can only be acquired through experience, such as, for example, the knowledge of what it is like to see colours, which could not be explained to someone born blind. See also qualia. A priori knowledge is can Adam or Eve know what water feels like on their skin prior to touching it for the first time?

The phrase also crops up in philosophy of religion, as an argument against God's omniscience - here it is questioned whether God could genuinely know everything, since he (supposedly) cannot know what it is like to sin.

Writer Barry Lopez writes about experiential knowledge and how it relates back to the environment. He explains that without experiencing nature, one cannot fully "know" and understand the relationships within ecosystems. One can exploit the problems with non-experiential based knowledge and make someone understand the necessity of experiential knowledge by asking them to explain a color (like blue). This is a perfect example of the flaws of interpersonal communication because of our inability to allow a blind man to feel the essence of colors.

http://en.wikipedia....ntial_knowledge

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Experiential Knowledge

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 6:23

Is The Gift Of Grace

For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. 2 Corinthians 5:21

From Our Loving

Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. Isaiah 53:4-6

God

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

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The Problem With Man's Measure Of God Almighty

Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands? Isaiah 45:9

Is God Is God You See

And he hewed two tables of stone like unto the first; and Moses rose up early in the morning, and went up unto mount Sinai, as the LORD had commanded him, and took in his hand the two tables of stone.

And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD.

And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,

Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped. Exodus 34:4-8

And We Are Not

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Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Your Brother Joe

PS: Cool Thread Beloved

[Guest shiloh357]

shiloh, if as I believe God is not bound by space and time and can simply look to see what will be in the future, i don't think i can separate experiential knowledge from priori Knoledge, or propositional knowledge whatever we want to call it.

i don't think I would know how to separate the two with Gods capabilities.

well, not being bound by space and time would touch on omnipresence. God knows the future because in one sense he is already there. God looks at time as collective whole.

At any rate, I fail to see why it would be hard to differentiate between propostitional knowledge versus experiential knowledge.

[Openly Curious]

name='shiloh357' timestamp='1311721352' post='1700925'

Tell me this...

The omniscience of God. Do you think it means that God has all possible knowledge (which would include all propositional and all experiential knowledge)? Or would it include only propositional knowledge?

Omniscience means "knowing everything" this being the case it would include both "propositional" and "experienential" knowledge lest it wouldn't fit into God "knowing everything."

Job 24:23 Though it be given him to be in safety, whereon he resteth;yet his eyes are upon their ways

(There are those who think their houses are safe from fear while being in rebellion against God. But they are wrong because the eyes of God are upon their disobedient lifestyles as none can hide from the prescence of the Lord).

Psalms 33:13-15 The Lord looketh from heaven; he beholdeth all the sons of men. From the place of his habitation he looketh upon all the inhabitants of the earth. He fashioneth their hearts alike; he considereth all their works.

Psalms 11:4 The Lord is in his holy temple, the Lord's throne is in heaven: "his eyes behold," "his eyelids try," the children of men.

Job 28:24 For he looketh to the ends of the earth, and seeth under the whole heaven;

Psalms 147:4-5 He telleth the "number" of the stars; he calleth them all by their "names." Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is "infinite."

Matthew 10:30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.

( God is all knowing and sees everything that goes on under the heavens nothing hid from him as he knows every hair on our heads. The Lord God made the stars but not only did he make the stars but he numbered each one of them and gave all of them individual names. The understanding of our God is "infinite.")

GOD is "ALL KNOWING"

[Guest shiloh357]

name='shiloh357' timestamp='1311721352' post='1700925'

Tell me this...

The omniscience of God. Do you think it means that God has all possible knowledge (which would include all propositional and all experiential knowledge)? Or would it include only propositional knowledge?

Omniscience means "knowing everything" this being the case it would include both "propositional" and "experienential" knowledge lest it wouldn't fit into God "knowing everything."

Okay, so following that your take that omnscience would have to include all experiential knowledge... Has God ever experienced what it is like to not be God?

[~candice~]

No!!!!!!!

God also cannot microwave a burrito so hot that He cannot eat it.

He doesn't know what it is like be create a rock so big He cannot lift it, etc etc.

I think some perspectives on "all powerful" are a bit simplistic.

[other one]

shiloh, if as I believe God is not bound by space and time and can simply look to see what will be in the future, i don't think i can separate experiential knowledge from priori Knoledge, or propositional knowledge whatever we want to call it.

i don't think I would know how to separate the two with Gods capabilities.

well, not being bound by space and time would touch on omnipresence. God knows the future because in one sense he is already there. God looks at time as collective whole.

At any rate, I fail to see why it would be hard to differentiate between propostitional knowledge versus experiential knowledge.

If he can look into the future and see the experience how do we know if the knowledge was there prior to the experience or if he just experiences the thing leading to the knowledge? LoL, that can lead to circular thoughts that simply make my head hurt. LoL

[other one]

name='shiloh357' timestamp='1311721352' post='1700925'

Tell me this...

The omniscience of God. Do you think it means that God has all possible knowledge (which would include all propositional and all experiential knowledge)? Or would it include only propositional knowledge?

Omniscience means "knowing everything" this being the case it would include both "propositional" and "experienential" knowledge lest it wouldn't fit into God "knowing everything."

Okay, so following that your take that omnscience would have to include all experiential knowledge... Has God ever experienced what it is like to not be God?

I think he has in the moments when he died on the cross. Jesus lived it and the Father experienced it. I don't have a clue of how to prove that, but I do believe it to be true.

[other one]

No!!!!!!!

God also cannot microwave a burrito so hot that He cannot eat it.

He doesn't know what it is like be create a rock so big He cannot lift it, etc etc.

I think some perspectives on "all powerful" are a bit simplistic.

Well, all powerful is also being wise enough to know what is dumb and what is not..... Why would God want or need to ruin a good burrito?

[Guest]

Simple answer. God knows everything, no matter how we want to categorize it. There is nothing that exists that He did not create.

Do you think God possesses all possible experiential knowledge? Do you know what I mean when I use the term, "propositional knowledge" and how it differs from experiential knowledge?

Do you think that you can have a thought that God hasn't had way before you existed?

No, but that doesn't really answer the question. What I am asking is whether or not anyone thinks that omniscience must include experiential knowledge, or if it only applies to propositional knowledge (the knowledge of what is).

But I did answer the question. I think that God's omniscience does and in fact must include both experiential and propositional knowledge or He would not be omniscient. He would have incomplete omniscience. Our God possesses all knowledge, which includes all what if's.

[oak]

Shiloh, you continue to answer only certain questions (maybe to prolong the thread), makes me feel that you don’t believe God is One. And if you believe in Christ certainly that includes experiential knowledge of humans. Also, God is in a dimension of no time as well as being in our present. Even evil has that ability in showing Christ all the kingdoms of the world. This coupled with being an All Knowing Creator, does make him knowledgeable of the experiential including death. Where are you going with this? "Mental Ascension" by Shiloh?

Thank you Fresno Joe for actually bringing clarity. And you prompt me to say that the Bible is subjective propositional evidence.