Omniscience

[Guest shiloh357]

No!!!!!!!

God also cannot microwave a burrito so hot that He cannot eat it.

He doesn't know what it is like be create a rock so big He cannot lift it, etc etc.

I think some perspectives on "all powerful" are a bit simplistic.

Yeah, but that none of that really addresses what I am talking about. You are talking about omnipotence. I am talking about omniscience. The dilemma about God not being able to create a rock so big He cannot lift it has nothing to do with this issue.

I am asking about propositional and experiential knowledge.

[Guest shiloh357]

I think he has in the moments when he died on the cross. Jesus lived it and the Father experienced it. I don't have a clue of how to prove that, but I do believe it to be true.

The only way that God could experience what it is to not be God is by experience. He would have at some point, ceased to be God. To argue that God must have all experiential knowledge would include experiencing things that contradict His deity.

God has never experienced what it is to be sinful, because God never sinned.

God has never experienced what it is to be created or to cease to exist, as God is eternal.

God has never experienced what it is to not be God, as He has always been God.

God has never experienced any personal need, as He has always been entirely self-sufficient and in need of nothing.

[Guest shiloh357]

Simple answer. God knows everything, no matter how we want to categorize it. There is nothing that exists that He did not create.

Do you think God possesses all possible experiential knowledge? Do you know what I mean when I use the term, "propositional knowledge" and how it differs from experiential knowledge?

Do you think that you can have a thought that God hasn't had way before you existed?

No, but that doesn't really answer the question. What I am asking is whether or not anyone thinks that omniscience must include experiential knowledge, or if it only applies to propositional knowledge (the knowledge of what is).

But I did answer the question. I think that God's omniscience does and in fact must include both experiential and propositional knowledge or He would not be omniscient. He would have incomplete omniscience. Our God possesses all knowledge, which includes all what if's.

No, you didn't answer the question. You responded to me with a question and avoided my direct question about whether or not you underestood the difference between propositional and experiential knowledge. You then asked me if I had a thought that God had never had before I existed, which really was not material to the issue.

[other one]

I think he has in the moments when he died on the cross. Jesus lived it and the Father experienced it. I don't have a clue of how to prove that, but I do believe it to be true.

The only way that God could experience what it is to not be God is by experience. He would have at some point, ceased to be God. To argue that God must have all experiential knowledge would include experiencing things that contradict His deity.

God has never experienced what it is to be sinful, because God never sinned.

God has never experienced what it is to be created or to cease to exist, as God is eternal.

God has never experienced what it is to not be God, as He has always been God.

God has never experienced any personal need, as He has always been entirely self-sufficient and in need of nothing.

Well, we have a difference of opinion of what that word God means so to discuss that i'd have to separate the Father from the Son. Speaking of the Father I would agree with what you say, speaking of the Son..... I'd have to ponder on that for a while.

I do believe that when Jesus cried out on the cross he understood both what sin was and what it was not to be God.... Heritical or not it makes sense to me and gives me comfort knowing that he has experienced what it is to be me...... and loves me anyway. How can I not follow something like that.

If Jesus thought it not to be something to grasp for to be equal with God (in my mind speaking of the Father) why should I put so much emphasis on whether or not he is God 100% of the time, except for havnig it fall into place with someone's theology.

[chloe_fantastic]

Why would God want or need to ruin a good burrito?

[Guest shiloh357]

Well, we have a difference of opinion of what that word God means

I dunno... When I use the word "God," I am referring to the holy, eternal, and sovereign Creator, Redeemer, and Judge of the universe. Are you using that word differently?

so to discuss that i'd have to separate the Father from the Son.

The Bible doesn't separate them like that. Why do you?

Speaking of the Father I would agree with what you say, speaking of the Son..... I'd have to ponder on that for a while.

Do you think there was a time when Jesus was not God??

I do believe that when Jesus cried out on the cross he understood both what sin was and what it was not to be God....

Jesus knew and knows what sin is. That is propositional. But to say Jesus experienced being sinful is going into heretical territory. For Jesus to experience sinfulness, He would have needed to sin. But on the cross, Jesus was sinless. Our sin was imputed to Him, but He was personally sinless. Had He been sinful, He would have been disqualified from being our Savior and the final offering for sin.

Heritical or not it makes sense to me and gives me comfort knowing that he has experienced what it is to be me...... and loves me anyway. How can I not follow something like that.

But experiencing what is to be human does not mean He experienced either a loss of deity or attribution of personal sinfulness. Entertaining heresy just because you think it "makes sense," is not a good place to be.

If Jesus thought it not to be something to grasp for to be equal with God (in my mind speaking of the Father) why should I put so much emphasis on whether or not he is God 100% of the time, except for havnig it fall into place with someone's theology.

What that verse was saying is that Jesus did not consider equality with God something to be expoited or taken advantage of for his own personal gain. Jesus while on earth never performed a single miracle of record for himself or for a selfish motive. He never got rich, never even fed Himself via His own power. He lived in complete dependence on the Father, as a model for us.

[other one]

I would just say that we disagree.

[Guest]

Simple answer. God knows everything, no matter how we want to categorize it. There is nothing that exists that He did not create.

Do you think God possesses all possible experiential knowledge? Do you know what I mean when I use the term, "propositional knowledge" and how it differs from experiential knowledge?

Do you think that you can have a thought that God hasn't had way before you existed?

No, but that doesn't really answer the question. What I am asking is whether or not anyone thinks that omniscience must include experiential knowledge, or if it only applies to propositional knowledge (the knowledge of what is).

But I did answer the question. I think that God's omniscience does and in fact must include both experiential and propositional knowledge or He would not be omniscient. He would have incomplete omniscience. Our God possesses all knowledge, which includes all what if's.

No, you didn't answer the question. You responded to me with a question and avoided my direct question about whether or not you underestood the difference between propositional and experiential knowledge. You then asked me if I had a thought that God had never had before I existed, which really was not material to the issue.

Round and round the mulberry bush, the monkey chased the weasel.....yes, I understand the difference between the two words. OK?

[Guest shiloh357]

Simple answer. God knows everything, no matter how we want to categorize it. There is nothing that exists that He did not create.

Do you think God possesses all possible experiential knowledge? Do you know what I mean when I use the term, "propositional knowledge" and how it differs from experiential knowledge?

Do you think that you can have a thought that God hasn't had way before you existed?

No, but that doesn't really answer the question. What I am asking is whether or not anyone thinks that omniscience must include experiential knowledge, or if it only applies to propositional knowledge (the knowledge of what is).

But I did answer the question. I think that God's omniscience does and in fact must include both experiential and propositional knowledge or He would not be omniscient. He would have incomplete omniscience. Our God possesses all knowledge, which includes all what if's.

No, you didn't answer the question. You responded to me with a question and avoided my direct question about whether or not you underestood the difference between propositional and experiential knowledge. You then asked me if I had a thought that God had never had before I existed, which really was not material to the issue.

Round and round the mulberry bush, the monkey chased the weasel.....yes, I understand the difference between the two words. OK?

Hey, you are the one who kept it going. If you would have just said "yes" the first time, there would have been no mulberry bush.

[oak]

But are you claiming that you know of very attribute of God the Father. Does God have abilities that you don’t know about? Such as knowing a thought or emotion that would agree and supersede the experiential method? Also you’re implying that you know God’s Mind and Every Purpose. I know you can have difficulty in your understanding the Bible. And in many cases you only can give your subjective interpretation. Try these:

“The Lord saw the wickedness of man was great in the earth and that every intention of thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the Lord was sorry he had made man on earth... Gen 6:5.

“And the Lord said, “Behold, they are one people, and they have all one language, and this is only the beginning of what will they do. And nothing they propose to do will now will be impossible for them .” Gen 11:7

Please explain why did God feel sorry? Also why didn’t He start with different languages to start with? Also, do you feel you could have come up with better tempting questions then the Evil one to Christ? While you’re at it can you give me an explanation of what God was talking about with scientific facts, when speaking to Job about “storing snow” and the rest (all rhetorical, if you like)?

Realize you’re no wiser than the kid who wrote in, “if God knew Adam and Eve would sin, why didn’t he prevent it.” In fact according to you why did He create them with His Self Sufficiency?

I expected much more from you,

Oak

PS But then again I don't really know you.