Islam is the Enemy

[OakWood]

Quoting bbrdy009:

 

You also mention that Abu Hamza, Abu Qatada, al-Qaeda and so are Satanic constructs. Is that so? Each and every one of them claims to be an expert on Islam. They are all clerics or governed by clerics, but according to you, they don't even understand their own religion. Why don't you enlighten them, seeing as you obviously know more about Islam than they do. Maybe you could single-handledly stop Global terrorism. What a hero you would become!

What astonishes me is that Islam has been practised in the same brutal and violent way for over 1.400 years, yet you claim that Muslims have been practising it wrong all this time. Are you seriously that naive?

You don't have a clue how Islam is or was practiced, wadr; and neither do I. I do, at least, have some practical experience with Muslims.

You must admit that your entire experience of Muslims comes from reading too much secular news.

How many Muslims have hurt you? Why don't you stop trying to enlighten other people, and enlighten yourself?

 

And lots of people in Christianity do just what you describe, also. Why dont we talk about them?

That is God's problem, this agenda, and not my affair.

People may claim whatever they like; it means less than nothing, and I am not interested in discussing less than nothing,

when I know that it will fade by itself, if it is not of God.

 

Those people that profess to live by Islam, will be judged by Islam;

the Beginning of Surahs condemns them.

 

 

 

A quote from yourself: I've read the Qur'an, and it says 'no violence,' and 'follow Christ or be doomed.'

 

Really? So were you reading the Qu'ran with your eyes shut. What about these verses?

 

"Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war"

          Koran 9:5

 

"O Prophet, urge the faithful to fight. If there are twenty among you with determination they will vanquish two hundred; if there are a hundred then they will slaughter a thousand unbelievers, for the infidels are a people devoid of understanding."

Koran 8:65

 

"God revealed his will to his angels, saying I shall be with you. Give courage to the believers. I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads. Strike off the very tips of their fingers.

Koran 8:12

Ya--like it would be so hard to find direct, Scriptural parallels for each of these? Are we done here?

 

 

 

Psalm 110:6 He will judge the nations, heaping up the dead and ...

 

 It's actually telling us what the Lord will do, NOT A COMMAND TO DO IT OURSELVES!

Are you deliberately trying twist the words of the Bible?

 

As for Islam, I studied it for three years and spent some time in the Middle East. I have met many Muslims. Please don't tell me what I do know and don't know it about it.

[other one]

 

 

 

 

I believe you are mistaken. The number one strategy of Satan is to ensure that money dominates every aspect of US society.

 

What is your evidence for belief? Or by what basis do you claim this?

 

 

 

He has, of course as part of that strategy, successfully deceived many Americans, including some American Christians, into thinking that accumulating money is a good thing. Jesus was very clear: you cannot serve God and money. Too many people think they can.

 

...................

 

What do you make of Sharia law becoming implemented in areas where Muslim populations are dominating?

 

Seems to work well in the UK with Jewish "law" in certain civic matters, likewise Sikh "law"; could also work in similar civil areas for Sharia. But mainstream law must be pre-eminent in criminal matters and matters of human rights.

 

 

problem is that is strictly against teachings of Islamic law.    the basic goal of Islam is to make the whole world subject to sharia law thereby subject to Allah...  and to do so by force if necessary

 

Most Muslims are purely pragmatic about these things. And are perfectly happy to operate Sharia in some civil matters, alongside the over-riding criminal law system. Just as Jews have done for many, many years. It seems to work well in the UK for both Jewish and Muslim communities.

 

and when there numbers get to the point they can, you will be shocked as to how many of them change.

[OakWood]

 

 

 

 

 

WW, I believe the same things you believe.

I believe in Christ, and that He died for our sins.

I have accepted this as best I am able, and I trust that this acceptance will evolve

into a more complete understanding of Christ and His sacrifice for humanity as time

and hopefully increased wisdom allow; and I believe that you pursue these ends also.

 

I might reply that I think you have been indoctrinated, and examining this is difficult;

and expressing the 'acceptance' above is harder to hear when framed in words that might sound 'unpatriotic' etc., when they are not--I love my country; it is 1Sam8 I fear (but not personally). Who is not to say I am indoc'ed myself lol? I will take a look at that, and I ask you bear with me, and do the same.

 

If I have been indoctrinated then whom by?

 

If I had been taught Islam by Muslims then surely I would be in praise of Islam, not against it!

I started off by reading the Qu'ran with an open mind, and do you know why I did that because I wanted to know more about Islam. I wanted to know why terrorists had misinterpreted their religion and why they were killing in the name of it. What had they got wrong? I could only satisfy my curiosity by reading the Qu'ran for myself. I even made sure that I checked with three different English translations, so that there was no way that I would misinterpret the Qu'ran due to a linguistic barrier.

 

Then I realized that I was unable to make full sense of the Qu'ran without reading the Hadiths, so I studied them. It took me a long time. Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim  are enormous volumes. I would write down verses and quotes to see if I could find parallels elsewhere. It took me months.

 

After some time I studied the history of Islam from its conception in the 7th Century AD to the present day.  I studied the life of the Prophet Mohammed both from Muslim and non-Muslim sources.

I read many books, both anti-Islam and pro-Islam. In fact today, I still own about fifty different books on Islam ranging from authors such as Robert Spencer (very anti-Islam) to Barnaby Rogerson (very pro-Islam). I consulted many websites both anti-Islam and pro-Islam. I learned about Qu'ranic abrogation, taqiyya, kitman and the Gharaniq incident. I could now see why many terrorist attacks were committed in the name of Islam. I felt sorry for Muslims. I became aware that they had been fooled by their own false ideology. I came to the conclusion through my own analysis that Islam was evil. I even worried about this analysis, in case I was on my own in having this opinion. But I still asked myself Why was Islam there? Why would Jesus give salvation to the World but not mention a future prophet who was to appear? Jesus warned us of false prophets. We have also been warned about those who preach a new gospel which is exactly what Mohammed did. When I found verses in the Bible that supported my findings, I felt more confident that I had come to the right decision.

 

Who therefore indoctrinated me? Please tell me, as I would like to know.

[OakWood]

 

 

 

 

 

 

WW, I believe the same things you believe.

I believe in Christ, and that He died for our sins.

I have accepted this as best I am able, and I trust that this acceptance will evolve

into a more complete understanding of Christ and His sacrifice for humanity as time

and hopefully increased wisdom allow; and I believe that you pursue these ends also.

 

I might reply that I think you have been indoctrinated, and examining this is difficult;

and expressing the 'acceptance' above is harder to hear when framed in words that might sound 'unpatriotic' etc., when they are not--I love my country; it is 1Sam8 I fear (but not personally). Who is not to say I am indoc'ed myself lol? I will take a look at that, and I ask you bear with me, and do the same.

 

If I have been indoctrinated then whom by?

 

If I had been taught Islam by Muslims then surely I would be in praise of Islam, not against it!

I started off by reading the Qu'ran with an open mind, and do you know why I did that because I wanted to know more about Islam. I wanted to know why terrorists had misinterpreted their religion and why they were killing in the name of it. What had they got wrong? I could only satisfy my curiosity by reading the Qu'ran for myself. I even made sure that I checked with three different English translations, so that there was no way that I would misinterpret the Qu'ran due to a linguistic barrier.

 

Then I realized that I was unable to make full sense of the Qu'ran without reading the Hadiths, so I studied them. It took me a long time. Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim  are enormous volumes. I would write down verses and quotes to see if I could find parallels elsewhere. It took me months.

 

After some time I studied the history of Islam from its conception in the 7th Century AD to the present day.  I studied the life of the Prophet Mohammed both from Muslim and non-Muslim sources.

I read many books, both anti-Islam and pro-Islam. In fact today, I still own about fifty different books on Islam ranging from authors such as Robert Spencer (very anti-Islam) to Barnaby Rogerson (very pro-Islam). I consulted many websites both anti-Islam and pro-Islam. I learned about Qu'ranic abrogation, taqiyya, kitman and the Gharaniq incident. I could now see why many terrorist attacks were committed in the name of Islam. I felt sorry for Muslims. I became aware that they had been fooled by their own false ideology. I came to the conclusion through my own analysis that Islam was evil. I even worried about this analysis, in case I was on my own in having this opinion. But I still asked myself Why was Islam there? Why would Jesus give salvation to the World but not mention a future prophet who was to appear? Jesus warned us of false prophets. We have also been warned about those who preach a new gospel which is exactly what Mohammed did. When I found verses in the Bible that supported my findings, I felt more confident that I had come to the right decision.

 

Who therefore indoctrinated me? Please tell me, as I would like to know.

 

Also just for the record, during my time in the Middle East I had noticed the odd behaviour of many Muslims (but this was before I knew anything about Islam). I noticed how friendly and hospitable they could be. Even today I have Muslim friends, but I also noticed an underlying fatalism that they had, and that some of them could act extremely brutally often for no clear reason. It was behaviour that I could simply not understand, until I researched Islam and then it all became clear to me.

[OakWood]

 

 

Also just for the record, during my time in the Middle East I had noticed the odd behaviour of many Muslims (but this was before I knew anything about Islam). I noticed how friendly and hospitable they could be. Even today I have Muslim friends, but I also noticed an underlying fatalism that they had, and that some of them could act extremely brutally often for no clear reason. It was behaviour that I could simply not understand, until I researched Islam and then it all became clear to me.

 

 

Yes, they surely have their own problems; I'm not meaning to deny any of that.

But I don't have to look that far to find problems, and ones that affect me, personally;

that I can remediate. And I certainly have no desire to pointlessly insult the decent,

practicing Muslims by associating them with those who aren't.

 

I agree with you. Muslims are not my targets of insult -  Islam is. But unfortunately what do we call them, the people who follow Islam? A lot of people use the term 'Islamist' to describe the ones who are violent and intolerant, and save the term 'Muslims' to describe those who aren't. But unfortunately the word 'Islamist' is a contrived word that makes no sense. If I use the term 'Muslims' I reserve for it for the generalization of the Ummah - the Muslim collective, and it is not meant to be an attack on all individual Muslims.

[nebula]

 

 

 

Islam is as much the enemy of the faith as Judaim, Buddhism, etc. There is no immediate threat to America. That is all hype meant to divert from what is really going on.

A voice of sanity!

Money-madness is the Big Threat to America!

 

Not exactly.

 

9/11 and Dearborn, Michigan are evidence enough of the kinds of threat Islam can be.

 

No one is buying "911, terrorists" anymore.

[nebula]

Anyone who follows Jesus must be prepared to endure the same trials that Jesus endured, including death at the hands of their persecutors.

 

John 15:20 Remember what I told you: 'A servant is not greater than his master.' If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also.

 

Revelation 20:4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

 

Matthew 20:23 You don't know what you are asking," Jesus said to them. "Can you drink the cup I am going to drink?" "We can," they answered.  Jesus said to them, "You will indeed drink from my cup, but to sit at my right or left is not for me to grant. These places belong to those for whom they have been prepared by my Father."

 

To reiterate, Jesus Christ commanded in Matthew 5:44  But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, ⁴⁵ so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven...

 

John 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

 

We must become followers of Jesus Christ in The Way that he taught us.

 

If Martin Luther King, Jr. thought this the way you present it, he would not have changed the nation. Yes, he was non-violent, but neither did he do nothing to confront evil.

[Gandalf]

 

 

 

 

 

I believe you are mistaken. The number one strategy of Satan is to ensure that money dominates every aspect of US society.

 

What is your evidence for belief? Or by what basis do you claim this?

 

 

 

He has, of course as part of that strategy, successfully deceived many Americans, including some American Christians, into thinking that accumulating money is a good thing. Jesus was very clear: you cannot serve God and money. Too many people think they can.

 

...................

 

What do you make of Sharia law becoming implemented in areas where Muslim populations are dominating?

 

Seems to work well in the UK with Jewish "law" in certain civic matters, likewise Sikh "law"; could also work in similar civil areas for Sharia. But mainstream law must be pre-eminent in criminal matters and matters of human rights.

 

 

problem is that is strictly against teachings of Islamic law.    the basic goal of Islam is to make the whole world subject to sharia law thereby subject to Allah...  and to do so by force if necessary

 

Most Muslims are purely pragmatic about these things. And are perfectly happy to operate Sharia in some civil matters, alongside the over-riding criminal law system. Just as Jews have done for many, many years. It seems to work well in the UK for both Jewish and Muslim communities.

 

and when there numbers get to the point they can, you will be shocked as to how many of them change.

 

Muslims have lived in the UK for more than 40 years, the vast majority getting on with quiet and peaceable lives. Why do you feel the need to slur peace-loving people when just a tiny minority from the same religion cause trouble? Christianity has hardly had clean hands over the centuries, but we don't expect to be tarred with the same brush as those who have behaved abominably.

[Gandalf]

Anyone who follows Jesus must be prepared to endure the same trials that Jesus endured, including death at the hands of their persecutors.

 

John 15:20 Remember what I told you: 'A servant is not greater than his master.' If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also.

 

Revelation 20:4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

 

Matthew 20:23 You don't know what you are asking," Jesus said to them. "Can you drink the cup I am going to drink?" "We can," they answered.  Jesus said to them, "You will indeed drink from my cup, but to sit at my right or left is not for me to grant. These places belong to those for whom they have been prepared by my Father."

 

To reiterate, Jesus Christ commanded in Matthew 5:44  But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, ⁴⁵ so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven...

 

John 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

 

We must become followers of Jesus Christ in The Way that he taught us.

Christ said we must "leave all" to follow Him - and that has to include all violence.

[OakWood]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I believe you are mistaken. The number one strategy of Satan is to ensure that money dominates every aspect of US society.

 

What is your evidence for belief? Or by what basis do you claim this?

 

 

 

He has, of course as part of that strategy, successfully deceived many Americans, including some American Christians, into thinking that accumulating money is a good thing. Jesus was very clear: you cannot serve God and money. Too many people think they can.

 

...................

 

What do you make of Sharia law becoming implemented in areas where Muslim populations are dominating?

 

Seems to work well in the UK with Jewish "law" in certain civic matters, likewise Sikh "law"; could also work in similar civil areas for Sharia. But mainstream law must be pre-eminent in criminal matters and matters of human rights.

 

 

problem is that is strictly against teachings of Islamic law.    the basic goal of Islam is to make the whole world subject to sharia law thereby subject to Allah...  and to do so by force if necessary

 

Most Muslims are purely pragmatic about these things. And are perfectly happy to operate Sharia in some civil matters, alongside the over-riding criminal law system. Just as Jews have done for many, many years. It seems to work well in the UK for both Jewish and Muslim communities.

 

and when there numbers get to the point they can, you will be shocked as to how many of them change.

 

Muslims have lived in the UK for more than 40 years, the vast majority getting on with quiet and peaceable lives. Why do you feel the need to slur peace-loving people when just a tiny minority from the same religion cause trouble? Christianity has hardly had clean hands over the centuries, but we don't expect to be tarred with the same brush as those who have behaved abominably.

 

The difference is that when a Christian commits an atrocity he is doing so DESPITE the teachings of Christ. When a Muslim commits an atrocity, he is doing EXACTLY what Mohammed told him to do.

If you know anything about what Mohammed said, he told Muslims to occupy foreign lands and remain peaceful until they became strong enough to take over the host nation, either by stealth or by force. This explains why Muslims have lived in the UK for 40 years with few problems. As their population increases, they become increasingly more intolerant and demanding, and occasionally violent. The Muslim population of Britain has doubled in the last ten years. Expect to see more Muslim grievances and more Muslim terrorist attacks!

If you don't believe me, this is what Mohammed himself said, an opinion echoed by many senior Muslim clerics. It is a form of stealth jihad often known as 'immigration jihad'. If you give me time, I can find Muslim scriptural evidence to back this up if you so wish.