rapture Q+A

[thereselittleflower]

It's always better to start a new thread so people aren't responding to others who are no longer even here.

jmho

 

[thereselittleflower]

It's always better to start a new thread so people aren't responding to others who are no longer even here.

jmho

 

[one_christian_warrior]

On 5/27/2013 at 1:43 PM, MorningGlory said:

 

I'd say it = 42 but....maybe it's a NEW math?

yes, 42 generations of 51.6 year= age of Abraham

[Pudgenik]

On 3/27/2013 at 3:47 AM, one_christian_warrior said:

 

the Tribulation starts when Israel signs the 7 year peace treaty

before the 2020 Vision of when the first door closes

The first seal was broken when Israel and Egypt signed the peace treaty.

[JohnD]

On 3/27/2013 at 2:41 AM, one_christian_warrior said:

 

Rev 4:1

Daniel 12:11–12 (AV)
11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

The 70th Week of Daniel (the last 7 years of current history) is 2520 days long.

The temple sacrifice will be abated 1290 days from the end.

1335 days from the beginning of the 70th Week of Daniel

will be the day of the rapture (the finality of the patience of the saints Revelation 3:10 / Revelation 13:12) .

Date setting?

Nope.

We won't know when the 70th Week of Daniel begins until the temple sacrifice is abated on day

1230.

 

Edited January 25, 2021 by JohnD

[OneLight]

10 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Jesus did. In the very same passage in which Jesus said no one would know the day or time he also stated quite plainly the events would happen in "this generation". No one will know the day or time but it will happen in this generation, and the conjugation of "this generation" in the Greek is near demonstrative. A near demonstrative conjugation prohibits making "this generation" say "that generation" or any generation in any far distant future. 

If doubting then look it up. 

May I ask if you are speaking about Matthew 24:34 when Jesus said "Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place."?  If so, I believe Jesus is talking about the generation that will witness all of what He spoke of in the prior verses, not just that particular generation of those He was speaking to.

As for Jesus knowing, scripture tells us that “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only."  The condition "only" sounds like only the Father knew.

If I am off base here, my apologies, but it's hard to follow all the threads that interest me. 

[OneLight]

50 minutes ago, Josheb said:

I am. 

Stop right there. What you or I believe is irrelevant if it is anything other than what is stated and what can exegetically be made to say based on what is stated. None of us have any place, no authority whatsoever, to say "I believe..." when we depart from what is stated. If you are going to believe anything then believe what is plainly stated as written, plainly read without added interpretation. 

Yes, that is a very common view held by a certain (minority) segment of Christendom based on a specific hermeneutic associated with that segment; a sectarian segment. That view is highly interpretive, something based on an eisegetic reading of the text, not an exegetic reading. Start with what it states. Notice the context of the narrative, the specific question Jesus is answering, the audience to whom and about whom he is speaking - to whom and about whom he is explicitly speaking.

Ask yourself, "If it weren't for the eschatology I have been taught, would I read the scriptures this way? Would I read a near demonstrative "this generation" to be a far-distant event when nowhere else in scripture does scripture itself ever treat near demonstrative language that way?" 

You can believe whatever you like. 

But if you claim to believe the Bible as written and not the way certain men coming along long, long, long after the scriptures were written tell us to read it then you'll look first to what is actually stated as stated. 

 

Since this op is specifically about the rapture, let's take a look at a section of Matthew 24 that is often attributed to be a rapture text. Near the end of the chapter Jesus appeals to the "days of Noah," and then gives an analogy of two men working in the fields and two women at a mill; one is taken and the other remains. We find a similar passage in Luke 17. The same segment of Christianity that says "this generation" really means "that generation," also say the reference to Noah's day is about the rapture. the problem with that interpretation is that's not what happened in the days of Noah. In the days of Noah the ones who were taken away were the ones destroyed!!! It was the ones who remained after the flood was over that continued to live on in a covenant relationship with God. Any objective reading of the Genesis 6-9 text easily and readily leads to that unenviable conclusion. 

Now I am not saying there's no rapture. 

I am simply saying neither Matthew 24:37-41 nor Luke. 17:26-31 is about a rapture. Of all the passages some use to support a rapture theology the two just mentioned must be removed from that list because that is not what they actually teach when read as written. 

Yet that is common practice among some. 

Now you are familiar with Matthew 24:34 but it is not being read as written; it is being read through "What I believe...." making either yourself or those from whom you learned that view the arbiter of scripture, not the other way around. 

Jesus aid, "This generation..." and he meant "This generation..." He said no one would know the day or time but he also said those events would happen in "This generation..." not "That generation...." He did not know the day or hour but he did know the generation. Don't conflate the three. The disciples wanted to know when the Pharisees would be judged, when temple was going to be destroyed, and when would the signs of his return appear and he told them what he know: I don't know the day or hour, but it is going to happen in this generation. Do a study of the phrase "this generation" in Matthew and the gospels. "It always refers to the generation to whom he is speaking at that time. 

Just read it as written. 

And if the eschatology doesn't work with that reading then change the eschatology, not God's word. 

Interesting how you say to me "Stop right there. What you or I believe is irrelevant if it is anything other than what is stated and what can exegetically be made to say based on what is stated. None of us have any place, no authority whatsoever, to say "I believe..." when we depart from what is stated. If you are going to believe anything then believe what is plainly stated as written, plainly read without added interpretation. ", then you go on telling me what you believe scripture is saying.

Guess I'm done discussing anything with you as it is more in line with me having to have to agree with you or I'm plain wrong.  Hope some day you can learn how to discuss.