Jesus Christ is the ONLY, “…First born from the dead.”!

[Massorite]

Are you implying that when we die our souls do not return to the Father from whence they came? Because I also am having a hard time understanding your assertion about after life.

to whom are you asking that question?

To Eccl12v13 - the question about Lazarus makes me question whether it is the afterlife of the person or the soul. The person does not have a spirit body at death the soul/spirit returns to the Father.

I merely need clarification.

Actually the idea that the soul goes back to the father is a false teaching which is based on a currupted interpretation of Ecclesiastes 12:7. The word "spirit" in that verse is not speaking of the soul as is tought. It is speaking of the breath of life (that which animates the body) that all are given at birth. The breath of life that is within, all good or bad, saved or unsaved always goes back to God where it came from.

Any who doubt what I am saying I would suggest you look/do the reseach it up for your self and then you will see that the teaching is a false interpretation of the verse.

It is the soul of Lazarus that it resting in the bossum of Abraham and the word "resting" in the Greek is speaking about "sleeping".

And it is the soul of the rich man that is suffering/burning. Though the rich mans flesh has gone back to the dust where it came from he still has eye balls and a tongue but the breath of life has gone back to God where it came from.

[Eccl12v13]

Are you implying that when we die our souls do not return to the Father from whence they came? Because I also am having a hard time understanding your assertion about after life.

to whom are you asking that question?

To Eccl12v13 - the question about Lazarus makes me question whether it is the afterlife of the person or the soul. The person does not have a spirit body at death the soul/spirit returns to the Father.

I merely need clarification.

Man is made of ONLY (2) substances; the dust of the earth and the breath of life from God. When man dies his body returns to being dust and the breath that was put into man returns to the one that gave it to man, God. God did not put a soul into man....man, the (2) parts together, ARE a soul!

To those that believe the soul returns to that Father after death, would that be ALL souls that die?

The story of Lazarus was just that. A story, a parable, to show a point.

.

[OneLight]

Man is made of ONLY (2) substances; the dust of the earth and the breath of life from God. When man dies his body returns to being dust and the breath that was put into man returns to the one that gave it to man, God. God did not put a soul into man....man, the (2) parts together, ARE a soul!

To those that believe the soul returns to that Father after death, would that be ALL souls that die?

The story of Lazarus was just that. A story, a parable, to show a point.

.

You cannot take how God created us and claim that is all we are. Look at all His creation. He spoke them into existence. I all there is just words?

From what I am reading, you do not believe we have a spirit. Am I correct?

Do you also realize that the parable of Lazarus spoke of the times before Christ rose from the dead? Everything changed once Christ died, went to the "belly of the earth" for three days, and rose again. Revelation 1:18 "I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death."

Have you not also read what Paul taught in 2 Corinthians 5:8 "We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord."

I have noticed that you have been asked more then once to clarify your stance. Would you please do this? What exactly do you believe happens once a person in Christ dies? To be honest, I cannot follow your first post. I do not believe that anyone would say that Christ was not the first to be raised from the dead. I would also dare say that using a "story" to make solid doctrine from is wrong. Parables were made to cause people to look for the truth, not to be truth.

Please, back your stance with scripture.

[Eccl12v13]

To those that believe the soul returns to that Father after death, would that be ALL souls that die?

The story of Lazarus was just that. A story, a parable, to show a point.

.

From what I am reading, you do not believe we have a spirit. Am I correct?

Have you not also read what Paul taught in 2 Corinthians 5:8 "We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord."

I have noticed that you have been asked more then once to clarify your stance. Would you please do this? What exactly do you believe happens once a person in Christ dies? To be honest, I cannot follow your first post. I do not believe that anyone would say that Christ was not the first to be raised from the dead. I would also dare say that using a "story" to make solid doctrine from is wrong. Parables were made to cause people to look for the truth, not to be truth.

Please, back your stance with scripture.

God's word tells us when we die we know nothing. Not just those that die in Christ but EVERYBODY!

Eccl.9

[5] For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

[10] Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

2 Cor.5

[8] We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

And WHEN are we present with the Lord? Let's read....

[10] For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

We will be with the Lord when we are judged. Also note this judgment is based, "...according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.", on our deeds/actions/works!

Let's read what Paul tells us about the saints of old;

Heb.11

[39] And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

[40] God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

And what was this perfection they did not receive? Their perfect spirit bodies. Their eternal bodies is what they did not receive. Paul goes on to say that they would NOT be made perfect without him. So even though these all died in faith, they did NOT receive perfection BEFORE Paul. Why? Because ALL will receive their immortal bodies at the same time;

1 Cor.15

[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Now if NONE have received their spirit bodies, Jesus claim of being the first born of many brotheren would make sense. Why? Paul already told us. NONE of the saints of old have been given the promise of eternal life.

Jesus has been the ONLY person, born of flesh and blood, died, and was given an eternal spirit body!

And concerning the story of Lazarus; it was just that....a story, a parable to give people a view of what hell WILL be like.

Again I ask, "To those that believe the soul returns to that Father after death, would that be ALL souls that die?"

.

[Littlelambseativy]

Eccl12v13 -With regard to the 'stories' of Lazarus, they are true. The only time that Jesus speaks a name of anyone in the Bible that is a factual statement. None of the others are real as they only mention 'a rich man', a master, a poor man but the account of Lazarus dying and the account of Lazarus, Abraham and the rich man are true.

Our spirit returns to the Father at death and when we are resurrected or raptured we will have the same body that Jesus did after He rose from the dead. Jesus was the 'first fruits' of the dead.

[OneLight]

To those that believe the soul returns to that Father after death, would that be ALL souls that die?

The story of Lazarus was just that. A story, a parable, to show a point.

.

From what I am reading, you do not believe we have a spirit. Am I correct?

Have you not also read what Paul taught in 2 Corinthians 5:8 "We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord."

I have noticed that you have been asked more then once to clarify your stance. Would you please do this? What exactly do you believe happens once a person in Christ dies? To be honest, I cannot follow your first post. I do not believe that anyone would say that Christ was not the first to be raised from the dead. I would also dare say that using a "story" to make solid doctrine from is wrong. Parables were made to cause people to look for the truth, not to be truth.

Please, back your stance with scripture.

God's word tells us when we die we know nothing. Not just those that die in Christ but EVERYBODY!

Eccl.9

[5] For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

[10] Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

2 Cor.5

[8] We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

And WHEN are we present with the Lord? Let's read....

[10] For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

We will be with the Lord when we are judged. Also note this judgment is based, "...according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.", on our deeds/actions/works!

Let's read what Paul tells us about the saints of old;

Heb.11

[39] And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

[40] God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

And what was this perfection they did not receive? Their perfect spirit bodies. Their eternal bodies is what they did not receive. Paul goes on to say that they would NOT be made perfect without him. So even though these all died in faith, they did NOT receive perfection BEFORE Paul. Why? Because ALL will receive their immortal bodies at the same time;

1 Cor.15

[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Now if NONE have received their spirit bodies, Jesus claim of being the first born of many brotheren would make sense. Why? Paul already told us. NONE of the saints of old have been given the promise of eternal life.

Jesus has been the ONLY person, born of flesh and blood, died, and was given an eternal spirit body!

And concerning the story of Lazarus; it was just that....a story, a parable to give people a view of what hell WILL be like.

Again I ask, "To those that believe the soul returns to that Father after death, would that be ALL souls that die?"

.

I see. You ignore questions. Too bad. You may learn something.

Your reference to Eccl.9 is 100% wrong. We will remember, for we will have to give account for every idle word we have said. Matthew 12:36 "But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment." and account for the works that are judged.

[Eccl12v13]

I see. You ignore questions. Too bad. You may learn something.

Your reference to Eccl.9 is 100% wrong. We will remember, for we will have to give account for every idle word we have said. Matthew 12:36 "But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment." and account for the works that are judged.

If you took the time to really read my reply, I answered each and every one of your questions.

And concerning Eccl.9, the verse is NOT referring to a time in the future, it speaks of the present state of the dead. When you are dead you know NOTHING. This is not my interpretation, this is what God's word tells us;

"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten."

How plain is that? "The dead know not ANY THING..."! Can God be any more clear about the state of the dead, WHILE they are dead?

Now when the dead are resurrected, then they will remember ALL that they have done. And look at what God AGAIN tells us He will judge them on. Will it be their 'faith'? No! It will be based upon those things that they did when they were alive. That is why there will be MANY that will be arguing with God over what they "thought" was the right thing to do to allow them enterance into His kingdom. But God tells them, "...depart from me, ye that work iniquity..." Over and over again, God tells us He will judge us based upon, deeds/actions/works!

Again I ask, "To those that believe the soul returns to that Father after death, would that be ALL souls that die?"

.

[Eccl12v13]

Our spirit returns to the Father at death and when we are resurrected or raptured we will have the same body that Jesus did after He rose from the dead. Jesus was the 'first fruits' of the dead.

Just want to make sure I'm on the same page and I'm understanding you correctly. Are you claiming that ALL spirits return to the Father at death?

.

[Massorite]

Our spirit returns to the Father at death and when we are resurrected or raptured we will have the same body that Jesus did after He rose from the dead. Jesus was the 'first fruits' of the dead.

Just want to make sure I'm on the same page and I'm understanding you correctly. Are you claiming that ALL spirits return to the Father at death?

.

Great question.

[OneLight]

I see. You ignore questions. Too bad. You may learn something.

Your reference to Eccl.9 is 100% wrong. We will remember, for we will have to give account for every idle word we have said. Matthew 12:36 "But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment." and account for the works that are judged.

If you took the time to really read my reply, I answered each and every one of your questions.

And concerning Eccl.9, the verse is NOT referring to a time in the future, it speaks of the present state of the dead. When you are dead you know NOTHING. This is not my interpretation, this is what God's word tells us;

"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten."

How plain is that? "The dead know not ANY THING..."! Can God be any more clear about the state of the dead, WHILE they are dead?

Now when the dead are resurrected, then they will remember ALL that they have done. And look at what God AGAIN tells us He will judge them on. Will it be their 'faith'? No! It will be based upon those things that they did when they were alive. That is why there will be MANY that will be arguing with God over what they "thought" was the right thing to do to allow them enterance into His kingdom. But God tells them, "...depart from me, ye that work iniquity..." Over and over again, God tells us He will judge us based upon, deeds/actions/works!

Again I ask, "To those that believe the soul returns to that Father after death, would that be ALL souls that die?"

.

I did read what you wrote many times trying to follow but couldn't. It most likely is due to not noticing where you said yes or no, leaving me to decide for you by what you posted, which I just refuse to do. To me, when someone asks me a yes or no question, they get a yes or no answer. Then, if i feel I need to expound on my answer, I do. That is the basic respect for a discussion, is it not?

I will reply later. I have the flu and am not up to the task at the moment.