Is The Virgin Mary Sinless?

[He giveth more grace]

The rational is that God in the flesh would need a pure (sinless) vessel to usher Him into the world.

The idea is that an impure vessel would be unworthy and incapable of bringing perfect purity into the world, because otherwise Christ would be born of a sinful vessel and then sort of by/in sin.

Jesus was born of a sinful vessel because her father passed sin to her, but sin is not passed on by the woman. God choose the purest virgin who was in nature sin born, but sin turned onto a dead end street in her, Mary (Merriam) could not pass on the Adamic sin to her child, but she herself needed a Saviour.

As a side note: Jewishness is passed through the Mother not the Father.

[joi]

I recently stumbled on to this question and people have different opinions on this subject.

Was the Virgin Mary sinless or not?

Some of the answers I have heard range from a Catholic view to what is in the Bible.

Any thoughts here?

Here's what Martin Luther said:

"It is a sweet and pious belief that the infusion of Mary’s soul was effected without original sin; so that in the very infusion of her soul she was also purified from original sin and adorned with God’s gifts, receiving a pure soul infused by God; thus from the first moment she began to live she was free from all sin. She is full of grace, proclaimed to be entirely without sin- something exceedingly great. For God’s grace fills her with everything good and makes her devoid of all evil."

-(Sermon: “On the Day of the Conception of the Mother of God,” December [?] 1527; from Hartmann Grisar, S.J., from the German Werke, Erlangen, 1826-1868, edited by J.G. Plochmann and J.A. Irmischer,

Here's a great analysis of the biblical basis for this belief:

*Edit* Link Removed. Chesterton you know better no catholic apologetic links.

Sorry but this is not correct. Mary was as sin-corrupt as the rest of us, otherwise she would not now be dead, which means she was a sinner just as you and I are.

[joi]

Here's what Martin Luther said:

"It is a sweet and pious belief that the infusion of Mary’s soul was effected without original sin; so that in the very infusion of her soul she was also purified from original sin and adorned with God’s gifts, receiving a pure soul infused by God; thus from the first moment she began to live she was free from all sin. She is full of grace, proclaimed to be entirely without sin- something exceedingly great. For God’s grace fills her with everything good and makes her devoid of all evil."

-(Sermon: “On the Day of the Conception of the Mother of God,” December [?] 1527; from Hartmann Grisar, S.J., from the German Werke, Erlangen, 1826-1868, edited by J.G. Plochmann and J.A. Irmischer,

Chesterton -

Why does God need a sinless earthly mother to remain sinless when He became man?

Hey Neb,

The rational is that God in the flesh would need a pure (sinless) vessel to usher Him into the world.

The idea is that an impure vessel would be unworthy and incapable of bringing perfect purity into the world, because otherwise Christ would be born of a sinful vessel and then sort of by/in sin.

We do not now just what God did/did not do to Mary, other than this verse;

Luke 1

28And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

No blood passes from the mother to the child before birth, so the blood of Jesus was sinless from his mother, and we KNOW the Holy Spirit is sinless, so NO contamination was there, period.

Why do you thin Mary was a sinful vessel? Does she not find favor in your sight? I am puzzled by your reply.

[OldEnglishSheepdog]

The rational is that God in the flesh would need a pure (sinless) vessel to usher Him into the world.

The idea is that an impure vessel would be unworthy and incapable of bringing perfect purity into the world, because otherwise Christ would be born of a sinful vessel and then sort of by/in sin.

Jesus was born of a sinful vessel because her father passed sin to her, but sin is not passed on by the woman. God choose the purest virgin who was in nature sin born, but sin turned onto a dead end street in her, Mary (Merriam) could not pass on the Adamic sin to her child, but she herself needed a Saviour.

As a side note: Jewishness is passed through the Mother not the Father.

If Jewishness was passed on through the mother, then Jesus’ heritage wasn't Jewish, because in His line was Ruth who was Moabite.

Further to that, this is a very legalistic reading of scripture. Sin doesn't need to be passed on by the father, because "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God". It's the wages of our actions, "the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life" (Romans 6:23).

The doctrine that Mary was sinless is not wrong because of some legal undertones of purity verses inheritance. The doctrine is wrong because "All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all" (Isaiah 53:6).

[OldEnglishSheepdog]

Here's what Martin Luther said:

"It is a sweet and pious belief that the infusion of Mary’s soul was effected without original sin; so that in the very infusion of her soul she was also purified from original sin and adorned with God’s gifts, receiving a pure soul infused by God; thus from the first moment she began to live she was free from all sin. She is full of grace, proclaimed to be entirely without sin- something exceedingly great. For God’s grace fills her with everything good and makes her devoid of all evil."

-(Sermon: “On the Day of the Conception of the Mother of God,” December [?] 1527; from Hartmann Grisar, S.J., from the German Werke, Erlangen, 1826-1868, edited by J.G. Plochmann and J.A. Irmischer,

Chesterton -

Why does God need a sinless earthly mother to remain sinless when He became man?

Hey Neb,

The rational is that God in the flesh would need a pure (sinless) vessel to usher Him into the world.

The idea is that an impure vessel would be unworthy and incapable of bringing perfect purity into the world, because otherwise Christ would be born of a sinful vessel and then sort of by/in sin.

We do not now just what God did/did not do to Mary, other than this verse;

Luke 1

28And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

No blood passes from the mother to the child before birth, so the blood of Jesus was sinless from his mother, and we KNOW the Holy Spirit is sinless, so NO contamination was there, period.

Why do you thin Mary was a sinful vessel? Does she not find favor in your sight? I am puzzled by your reply.

Does Mary find favour in my sight? That's irrelevant since how I esteem things doesn't affect anything.

Mary was sinful because she had sinned.

I was just answering the question though, not expressing my beliefs.

[He giveth more grace]

The rational is that God in the flesh would need a pure (sinless) vessel to usher Him into the world.

The idea is that an impure vessel would be unworthy and incapable of bringing perfect purity into the world, because otherwise Christ would be born of a sinful vessel and then sort of by/in sin.

Jesus was born of a sinful vessel because her father passed sin to her, but sin is not passed on by the woman. God choose the purest virgin who was in nature sin born, but sin turned onto a dead end street in her, Mary (Merriam) could not pass on the Adamic sin to her child, but she herself needed a Saviour.

As a side note: Jewishness is passed through the Mother not the Father.

If Jewishness was passed on through the mother, then Jesus’ heritage wasn't Jewish, because in His line was Ruth who was Moabite.

Further to that, this is a very legalistic reading of scripture. Sin doesn't need to be passed on by the father, because "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God". It's the wages of our actions, "the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life" (Romans 6:23).

The doctrine that Mary was sinless is not wrong because of some legal undertones of purity verses inheritance. The doctrine is wrong because "All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all" (Isaiah 53:6).

You need to learn the different between, Adam's sin; what we are and sin pertaining to what we do.

You calling me legalistic is unwarranted and uncalled for.

[OldEnglishSheepdog]

You need to learn the different between, Adam's sin; what we are and sin pertaining to what we do.

You calling me legalistic is unwarranted and uncalled for.

I'm sorry to have offended you, but I did not call you legalistic. I said that you were employing a legalistic interpretation.

If you have perspectives to offer on the ontological differences among kinds of sin then please feel free to present them.

[other one]

As a side note: Jewishness is passed through the Mother not the Father.

Do you have a scriptural reference to show that......

[enoob57]

I do not understand the appeal to Martin Luther when we have a plethora of scriptures on the issue to draw from.

It's not as if Luther represents me, and nor was Luther's theology on the up... one just needs to look at how he viewed the Jews to know that we don't align ourselves with him or his beliefs.

So, you can appeal to the words of a dead anti-Semitic preacher, or to the infallible alive Word of God. And when the bible says that ALL have sinned, I know which I believe.

The biblical portion of my response was deleted by those who fear the truth.

The reason I quoted Luther was to demonstrate that the claim that Mary was a sinner is modern.

Candice 1 point.......... chester nun

The claim goes all the way back to the penning of Romans 3.

[nebula]

Chesterton -

Why does God need a sinless earthly mother to remain sinless when He became man?

Hey Neb,

The rational is that God in the flesh would need a pure (sinless) vessel to usher Him into the world.

The idea is that an impure vessel would be unworthy and incapable of bringing perfect purity into the world, because otherwise Christ would be born of a sinful vessel and then sort of by/in sin.

Got a Scripture for that?

Do people really believe the sin nature to be greater than God, that He would be overcome with a sin nature by a sinful vessel?