Interesting things about "antichrist"

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Montana Marv, and Happy Chanukkah, the giving of the LIGHT, and Merry Christmas, the Conception of Yeshua`!

This is Israel Zech12:10 - And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one who they have pierced and they will mourn........

Israel is also included in Rev 1:7 - Look He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him. And all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of Him........

Zech 13:9b - They will call on my name and I will answer them; I will say "they are may people", and they will say, "the Lord is our God". The 70th week of Daniel is fulfilled at this time. Israel now becomes grafted back into the Vine, and the six tasks have been completed.

I agree. However, I have never heard anyone equating Daniel 9:24 with anyone other than Jesus before.

"Seventy 'sevens' are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy.

I have always read this as God doing these things amidst their people and the holy city - which Jesus did.

Nebula

My take on Daniel 9:24 is: 1. Who has been decreed this prophecy? (your people and your holy city); 2. How long for completion? (Seventy sevens -prophetic weeks) 3. When was this issue to begin? (Dan 9:25 - from the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem) 4. When does the Seventy sevens conclude (at the completion of their six tasks - or at the end of the 70th week). 5. Now what are they to complete? (tasks 1-6 of the same verse).

I don't go beyond here; for these are the parameters of the sentence structure. Who was given the prophecy and what are they to do.

Yes one can compare what Christ did (with the six tasks), But, this prophecy is directed to "your people" and "your holy city" This is where I do not budge; Who is the prophecy for, and what are they to do. To understand this basic principle (sentence structure) in this context, I will say it closes many holes on how some will view prophecy. Who is given the prophecy and what are they to do.

In Christ

Montana Marv

This is where I say follow the structure of the sentence (basic English grammar) Seventy sevens are decreed. For your people and your holy city. TO do the following, the rest of the verse.

I've been considering your take on Dani'el 9:24 and I believe that you might have a slight problem that needs correcting: The "six tasks" that you name are not tasks that must be accomplished BY Isra'el. They are tasks that must be accomplished FOR Isra'el. Frankly, some of those tasks CANNOT be accomplished by any man except the Son of Man. Let's look at them carefully:

1. To finish the transgression = l-khalee' ha-pesha` = to-restrict the-revolt/revolution/rebellion

2. To make an end of sins = uw-l-chaateem chaTaa''owt = and-to-close-up/seal offenses/sins

3. To make reconciliation for iniquity = uw-l-khapeer `aavon = and-to-cover perversity

4. To bring in everlasting righteousness = uw-l-haaViy' tsedeq `olaamiym = and-to-usher-in righteousness of-ages

5. To seal up the vision and prophecy = v-l-ch'tom chaazown v-naaViy` = and-to-close/seal vision and-prophecy

6. To anoint the most Holy - v-li-m'shoach qodesh qaadaashiym = and-to-anoint holy of-holies

When it comes to "closing/sealing offenses," "covering perversity," "ushering in the righteousness of the ages," and "anointing the Holy of Holies," the Jews and Isra'elites can't do these things. Yeshua` the Messiah alone can accomplish these tasks. And, I would suspect that He is the only One who can accomplish the other two tasks, as well.

A technicality, I know, but an important one, IMO.

[Bold Believer]

Sounds like you are a Preterist, BoldBeliever.

Am I correct?

At any rate, Jesus referred to the antichrist indirectly as one of the many false christs and false prophets that would come. He also spoke of:

John 17:12 (KJV)

12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Which Paul later clarified:

2 Thessalonians 2:3 (KJV)

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

He is spoken of with many descriptions throughout scripture as the Assyrian, the worthless shepherd, the beast, the seed of the serpent, the man of sin, the man of lawlessness, the son of perdition... Preterist or not, you have foisted a false interpretative petard in the OP.

NO, you're not.

Jn 17:12 refers to Judas.

Jesus never referred anywhere to 'the antichrist'. Pseudo-christos and antichristos are 2 different words and not related.

The beast was Rome. The last of Daniel's 4 beasts. Nero was the human personification of the beast.

I have already answered the man of sin, man of lawlessness matter. The son of perdition is not 'the antichrist' either. "He" is lost man.

BTW it's HOISTED, not foisted. A petard is a crude bomb. If one blows himself up with his own bomb, he is said to be hoist by his own petard.

You offer no real proof except what I have already dealt with. There is no dictator antichrist, he's made up of whole cloth.

Sure he did. He called them false christs.

Which is what the term actually means anti-christ therefore anti-truth masquerading around as the real messiah.

And I said foisted with intent. Maybe you cannot figure the double axiom out but I am certain others here can.

Pseudochristos means false Christs. I understand Greek reasonably well.

Antichristos means to be AGAINST Christ. The two are diametrically opposed to one another.

A false christ will masquerade as the Jewish Messiah.

An antichrist will say that Christ never came in the flesh.

[Bold Believer]

Shalom, Montana Marv, and Happy Chanukkah, the giving of the LIGHT, and Merry Christmas, the Conception of Yeshua`!

This is Israel Zech12:10 - And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one who they have pierced and they will mourn........

Israel is also included in Rev 1:7 - Look He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him. And all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of Him........

Zech 13:9b - They will call on my name and I will answer them; I will say "they are may people", and they will say, "the Lord is our God". The 70th week of Daniel is fulfilled at this time. Israel now becomes grafted back into the Vine, and the six tasks have been completed.

I agree. However, I have never heard anyone equating Daniel 9:24 with anyone other than Jesus before.

"Seventy 'sevens' are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy.

I have always read this as God doing these things amidst their people and the holy city - which Jesus did.

Nebula

My take on Daniel 9:24 is: 1. Who has been decreed this prophecy? (your people and your holy city); 2. How long for completion? (Seventy sevens -prophetic weeks) 3. When was this issue to begin? (Dan 9:25 - from the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem) 4. When does the Seventy sevens conclude (at the completion of their six tasks - or at the end of the 70th week). 5. Now what are they to complete? (tasks 1-6 of the same verse).

I don't go beyond here; for these are the parameters of the sentence structure. Who was given the prophecy and what are they to do.

Yes one can compare what Christ did (with the six tasks), But, this prophecy is directed to "your people" and "your holy city" This is where I do not budge; Who is the prophecy for, and what are they to do. To understand this basic principle (sentence structure) in this context, I will say it closes many holes on how some will view prophecy. Who is given the prophecy and what are they to do.

In Christ

Montana Marv

This is where I say follow the structure of the sentence (basic English grammar) Seventy sevens are decreed. For your people and your holy city. TO do the following, the rest of the verse.

I've been considering your take on Dani'el 9:24 and I believe that you might have a slight problem that needs correcting: The "six tasks" that you name are not tasks that must be accomplished BY Isra'el. They are tasks that must be accomplished FOR Isra'el. Frankly, some of those tasks CANNOT be accomplished by any man except the Son of Man. Let's look at them carefully:

1. To finish the transgression = l-khalee' ha-pesha` = to-restrict the-revolt/revolution/rebellion

2. To make an end of sins = uw-l-chaateem chaTaa''owt = and-to-close-up/seal offenses/sins

3. To make reconciliation for iniquity = uw-l-khapeer `aavon = and-to-cover perversity

4. To bring in everlasting righteousness = uw-l-haaViy' tsedeq `olaamiym = and-to-usher-in righteousness of-ages

5. To seal up the vision and prophecy = v-l-ch'tom chaazown v-naaViy` = and-to-close/seal vision and-prophecy

6. To anoint the most Holy - v-li-m'shoach qodesh qaadaashiym = and-to-anoint holy of-holies

When it comes to "closing/sealing offenses," "covering perversity," "ushering in the righteousness of the ages," and "anointing the Holy of Holies," the Jews and Isra'elites can't do these things. Yeshua` the Messiah alone can accomplish these tasks. And, I would suspect that He is the only One who can accomplish the other two tasks, as well.

A technicality, I know, but an important one, IMO.

Not a technicality at all. Any theologian worth his salt knows exactly what is meant and who carried out the tasks. J E S U S. You have it correct Retro, Marv doesn't.

[Georod]

Why are we so not able to see the wind blowing but able to feel or hear,and still not understand the reality of his word that we keep getting confused with the little and fotget to look at the big picture he came to show one thing .but we are so worried about who is right .if the spirit is in us then our heart will lead us to the truth and the truth is him and he is love and only love we were created by his love so we must listen to the spirit which is love

[taylor30]

1. The term is used a sum total of five times in a sum total of four verses in the entire New Testament, all in the pastoral letters of John (1, 2 3 John). The term is never used (or even referred to) by any of the other NT authors.

2. Despite all of the importance attached to the term by modern evangelical believers, Jesus never used it even once. Would we not think that if such an individual were of such importance, that Jesus would have mentioned it at least once?

3. In 2 Thessalonians 2, the apostle Paul uses the term man of sin to describe an individual or individuals who will be revealed just before the coming of Christ to gather his people. While many well-meaning prophecy teachers equate 'antichrist' and the man of sin, there is no evidence absolutely linking the two terms. Furthermore, since Paul was martyred in 67 AD and John didn't even use the word antichrist until about 95 AD, and there is no evidence to my knowledge that they (Paul and John) ever met one another, there is no reason to link the two terms.

4. Despite the significance attached to 'antichrist' by modern prophecy writers, the term is conspicuously absent in the Book of Revelation. Search though you will, the word is simply not there. People put it there in their teaching. Revelation 13 refers to Nero, whose name added up to 666, not to some future mythical dictator. Does anyone other than myself find it interesting that John never uses the word antichrist in the one book allegedly about the end of all things?

5. John defines the term antichrist:

1Jo 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

2Jo 1:7 ¶ For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

How much plainer can John be?

6. John further tell us that what the church was expecting was not a man, but a spirit.

1Jo 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world

Does John ever define antichrist as a single man? No. In fact, he tells his audience that there are many antichrists. Does John ever define antichrist as a dictator? No, not even in the Book of Revelation, which he wrote.

If John does not, why should we?

7. Despite all modern attempts to assign the number of the beast to a modern individual, nobody fills the bill. Many have tried to to make a modern person out to be 'the antichrist', but they are never correct. That's because they are misapplying the Scripture. The only name that fits is N E R O. The beast is not 'the antichrist'.

8. The term 'the antichrist' is never used in Scripture. The definitive article is not present. It's always simply 'antichrist.'

I invite you to look these things up for yourself, without the writings of prophecy teachers present. It could be that after careful study, you come to the same conclusion I have:

There is no antichrist dictator 666 personage.

Hello, that is a very interesting post. I have a few comments I would like you to consider if you will.

#1. Jesus knew that the Antichrist was in the far distant future and probably saw no reason to discuss it with people,who would not be there for it anyway.

#2. John mentions Antichrist because he is the final writer or scripture. All 5 books he wrote were the last chronologically to be written, so it makes sense for him to be the one to mention it.

#3. When Paul mentions the man of sin, he is opposing a false teaching that the tribulation has begun. He is not teaching about the Antichrist. However I do believe the man of sin IS the Antichrist.

#4. The desecration of the temple is mentioned in Daniel, Thessalonians, & Revelation. So clearly they are all the same person and the same event.

#5. The fact that the word Antichrist appears only a few times really doesn't mean much. In Revelation the Antichrist is given the term THE BEAST. Just as Christ has had over 100 different titles in scripture, so does Satan and the Antichrist.

#6. To my knowledge, there is not one single prophetic event or person that is only mentioned in 1 book, so why would Antichrist be any different?

I am interested to know your thoughts on the points I have made.

[Bold Believer]

Hello, that is a very interesting post. I have a few comments I would like you to consider if you will.

#1. Jesus knew that the Antichrist was in the far distant future and probably saw no reason to discuss it with people,who would not be there for it anyway.

#2. John mentions Antichrist because he is the final writer or scripture. All 5 books he wrote were the last chronologically to be written, so it makes sense for him to be the one to mention it.

#3. When Paul mentions the man of sin, he is opposing a false teaching that the tribulation has begun. He is not teaching about the Antichrist. However I do believe the man of sin IS the Antichrist.

#4. The desecration of the temple is mentioned in Daniel, Thessalonians, & Revelation. So clearly they are all the same person and the same event.

#5. The fact that the word Antichrist appears only a few times really doesn't mean much. In Revelation the Antichrist is given the term THE BEAST. Just as Christ has had over 100 different titles in scripture, so does Satan and the Antichrist.

#6. To my knowledge, there is not one single prophetic event or person that is only mentioned in 1 book, so why would Antichrist be any different?

I am interested to know your thoughts on the points I have made.

[Daniel59]

I hope you don’t mind me slipping in here on at least one point.

I have seen it mentioned that Jesus never spoke about the antichrist, but Mathews 24 is all about Rev 6.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding you?

[Bold Believer]

I hope you don’t mind me slipping in here on at least one point.

I have seen it mentioned that Jesus never spoke about the antichrist, but Mathews 24 is all about Rev 6.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding you?

No problem. Matthew 24 is about the Days of Vengeance. If you read Luke 21, it is a parallel passage which mentions things that neither Matthew nor Mark do. I didn't equate Matthew 24 with Revelation 6.

[Daniel59]

I hope you don’t mind me slipping in here on at least one point.

I have seen it mentioned that Jesus never spoke about the antichrist, but Mathews 24 is all about Rev 6.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding you?

No problem. Matthew 24 is about the Days of Vengeance. If you read Luke 21, it is a parallel passage which mentions things that neither Matthew nor Mark do. I didn't equate Matthew 24 with Revelation 6.

Thanks for response so quick.

let me post an example or two by comparing Math 24 v Rev 6

Christ foretells the destruction of the temple

1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

2 And Jesus said unto them,[/color] See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. 3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. Matt 24:1-5 (KJV)

1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see. 2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; (toxon) and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer. Rev 6:1-2 (KJV)

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. Matt 24:6-7 (KJV)

And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see. 4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword Rev 6:3-4 (KJV)

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. Matt 24:7 (KJV)

5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. 6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

Rev 6:5-6 (KJV)

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. Matt 24:7 (KJV)

7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. 8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth. Rev 6:7-8 (KJV)

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together

Matt 24:7-28 (KJV)

9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. Rev 6:9-11 (KJV)

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.[/color] Matt 24:28-30 (KJV)

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? Rev 6:12-17 (KJV)

21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.

Dan 11:21 (KJV)

Edited January 2, 2012 by Daniel59

[mlinsk777]

Re: The antichrist

I think all will agree that any organization or person that is in direct opposition to the teaching of Jesus Christ is acting as an “anti Christ”. So, if someone teaches (directly or indirectly) or influences others to engage in fornication, adultery, or homosexuality they are acting against the teaching of Jesus Christ and can thus be described as an antichrist. If someone causes others to lose faith in God or to hinder the worship of God then they are acting as an antichrist. So, if you want to find the Antichrist in the world today find the force that is most powerfully performing these anti Jesus Christ actions.

I think it is clear that today’s mainstream media, including the movie and music industry are the most powerful influences over children and young adults in a negative, anti Christian way in the world today. The G7 nations (United States, Canada, UK, France, Germany, Italy, Japan) are the countries where ownership of the world’s biggest multimedia corporations reside. It was actually at a meeting of the G7 last year where a proposal was made to include abortion as part of the maternal health care initiative to third world countries. It is not enough that we slaughter our own innocents; we now want to export this abominable practice (a Satanic sacrifice some would say) to the poor countries of Africa and Asia.

If you want to know the beast with the 7 heads and ten horns then understand that a horn is something that amplifies a message. The G7 nations with the 10 largest multimedia organizations in the world fit the definition of the beast with the 7 heads and ten horns.