Bible versions

[coheir]

Anyone can find all the verses and words that have been changed in the different bilbles on the internet. I have several sites in my favorites that show the ljv verse and the other verse side by side. It is clear there have been changes. and it is clear some change the meaning.My Bible software has most of the Bibles on it. I can with a couple of clicks choose anyone of them and compare and see the changes. My intent for this thread was not to post all the different changes between them and debate the how and why. My question was after a person knows of the changes why notchange Bibles.

[OneLight]

Curious why people use and promote other versions of the bible other than kjv. Aren't verses changed that give a different understanding than the original intent?

what say ye

I say that if the KJV was good enough for the Apostles, it's good enough for me.

If you are going to make the claim that verses in "other" translations of the Bible have been "changed" you are going to have to show proof as well as stating exactly what translations you think have been tampered with, or the claim is meaningless. There are not different "versions" of the Bible, simply different translations, the same category that the KJV itself would fall under. Most people's indignation is aimed at the NIV when they carry this mindset. The NIV is a good daily reading Bible, but not really a good study Bible. And even then, the assertions that the NIV has altered verses or "missing" verses is left without any visible means of support when the NIV has copious notes in every instance such as notes that gives alternate manuscript readings, or say there is disagreement on the text, or that some manuscripts do not carry a certain verse. It is not as if the verse just disappears into thin air and the disappearance is simply unexplained, and the verse is given anyway in the notes. The KJV is a very good translation, but no translation is perfect, including the KJV.

thanks, cobalt for the reply, versions was the wrong word. translations would have been much better. when I wanted a second bible I thought about one of the others like niv or nkjv. While looking online I ran accross several articles that say most translations change the wording of verses. It caused me to buy another kjv. If you took offence to my question I assure you I meant no offence. Its just a question.

The only thing I could claim as proof is what I found on the internet.

this example The word "damned", "damnation" is NOT in the NKJV!

They make it "much clearer" by replacing it with "condemn" (ditto NIV, RSV, NRSV, NASV). "Condemned" is NO WHERE NEAR AS SERIOUS as "damned"! Damned is eternal! One can be "condemned" and not "damned". Romans 14:22 says, ". . . Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth." Webster defines "condemned": to declare to be wrong, but the much more serious and eternal "damn": "to condemn to hell".

When all else fails, return to the Greek or Hebrew.

Damned - Condemned

Strong's G2632 - katakrinō

1) to give judgment against, to judge worthy of punishment

.....a) to condemn

.....b) by one's good example to render another's wickedness the more evident and censurable

The Greeks states:

SHALL-BE-BEING-DOWN-JUDGED

http://www.scripture4all.org

[coheir]

Curious why people use and promote other versions of the bible other than kjv. Aren't verses changed that give a different understanding than the original intent?

what say ye

Hi and welcome to Worthy,

Your question is something I have been looking into once again as it seems to crop up fairly regularly...this is what I understand so far.

There are a small group of sincere Believers who have been convinced that the 1611 KJB is somehow especially correct and preserved by G-ds grace for the English speaking peoples.

They seem convinced too that ever since then there has been some sort of skullduggery afoot that seeks to chip away at the authentic translation of the 1611 version and to replace it

with words that detract from the fuller sense they believe is contained only in the 1611 translation...I uunderstand this is because they will say the men King James chose were all

gifted scholars, loved G-d and were directed and guided by the Holy Spirit.....(others were not I presume)

When I have read and listened patiently to the supposed facts that promote the 1611 version above all else, I have noticed that they are very good at building up a strong argument

against people like Westcott and Hort, (who although they held some controversial ideas were actually professing Believers), however their arguments seem more directed against the

personal beliefs of these men, than their work on the manuscripts. I'm not saying it is unimportant...but it strikes me that the way these two men are attacked is solely to discredit

any possibility that their lifes work had merit. Modern scholarship may be indebted to their work, but from what I have read they revise it when they feel it is inadequate and do not

attempt to hold it forth like some Holy Grail.

When I listen to the vehement language and erstwhile tone of many KJO supporters (just visit any KJO website for a taste) I cannot escape the feeling that rather than enlighten the rest of us

and encourage the Body of Messiah they are more intent on hammering home their own brand of religious exclusivity that promotes their stance and negates and condemns those that do not

share their particular revelation.

From past experience and Scripture I find this to be 'skating on thin ice'...there is an imbalance that is troubling.

If I understand their main thrust, it is that Satan is cleverly at work subverting every Bible that does not conform with the 1611 version, by introducing a watering down of the original

intent of the words, adding and subtracting from the available documents, solely in order to pervert the truth....if we sum it up in reality there is a huge conspiracy going on, and all

the modern translators and publishers are united in their aim (consciously or soulishly) to blind G-ds people and hide the 'real truths' that the 1611 solemnly upholds.

The reason I think this is not only wrong but a fundamentally important issue is that in a very real sense it is introducing an element to the Gospel that is unbiblical, and against which

Paul was at pains should not gain a foothold within the Body. In his day one thing that troubled Believers was the idea that their salvation could not be held as authentic unless

they were circumcised....in this instance what is being called into question is the authenticity of a Believers faith if he has been deceived by pernicious translations that are the

tools of devils and promote lies.

The substance of the KJO claims can easily be weighed up when you place a verse side by side with say the NASB or ESV (both of which I use) and see why each translates it the way they do...

By their own rules, the KJV is found wanting in places and is no more perfect than many other attempts at excellence in translation....and for many the language is a big

disadvantage and hardly an encouragement.

I'm not going to say any more at this point, but let Scripture speak.

Galatians 5: 1It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.

2Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. 3And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. 4You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 5For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness. 6For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.

7You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth? 8This persuasion did not come from Him who calls you. 9A little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough. 10I have confidence in you in the Lord that you will adopt no other view; but the one who is disturbing you will bear his judgment, whoever he is. 11But I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why am I still persecuted? Then the stumbling block of the cross has been abolished. 12I wish that those who are troubling you would even mutilate themselves.

13For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. 14For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, “YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.” 15But if you bite and devour one another, take care that you are not consumed by one another.

It only takes a little bit of leaven to leaven the lump Botz, as it does 99% of food mixed with 1% of poison to kill a rat. The King James Bible is "Authorized" and it is the only one that is; " The Kings heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turns it withersoever he will "Prov21:1. We are talking GODs very pure Word here-Ps119:140) and ANY man that seeks to translate His Word must do it in the fear of the LORD and the power of the Holy Ghost. If you look into the lives of these "brave" translators that have dared do it, you will find some are not right with GOD and very dubious regards being born again. Some are practicing homosexuals, some unbelievers, some have had occultic aspirations and " many " unregenerate think that because they have mans university education (scholars) think that gives them the right to tamper with GODs holy Word JESUS said " For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus." Rev22:18-20

What i find common today Botz is the lack of the fear of GOD before mens eyes and the excuse that " i don't like that translation because it is hard to understand". Why will not one " study" to understand instead of seeking to change GODs Word to suit themselves ? All the old timers like the Wesley's, Spurgeons, Hudson Taylor, Moody, Jonathon Edwards etc etc used the King James and they were Godly men. It if was good enough for them then it is good enough for me .

Check this out

http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2011-04-21-king-james-bible.htm

here is another

http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/story/2012-02-17/controversial-niv-bible-lifeway/53131628/1

check out htis page

http://www.slowley.com/niv2011_comparison/

check out this

http://www.slowley.com/niv2011_comparison/most_added_removed_words.html

heres another page

http://www.slowley.com/niv2011_comparison/Genesis.html

cobalt check oit this

http://www.biblewebapp.com/niv2011-changes/

side by side view

http://mundall.com/erik/NIV-KJV.htm

another

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Bible/versions-kautz.htm

http://www.momof9splace.com/7reasons.html

Thanks Onelight for putting this together

Edited February 19, 2012 by coheir
Merged posts so not to have 9 different posts

[coheir]

Curious why people use and promote other versions of the bible other than kjv. Aren't verses changed that give a different understanding than the original intent?

what say ye

I say that if the KJV was good enough for the Apostles, it's good enough for me.

If you are going to make the claim that verses in "other" translations of the Bible have been "changed" you are going to have to show proof as well as stating exactly what translations you think have been tampered with, or the claim is meaningless. There are not different "versions" of the Bible, simply different translations, the same category that the KJV itself would fall under.

just thought I would throw this there

Synonyms, Thesaurus & Antonyms of 'version' Princeton's WordNet

1. (noun) version

an interpretation of a matter from a particular viewpoint

Synonyms: edition, reading, translation, interpretation, variant, variation, interlingual rendition, rendering, adaptation

[Botz]

It only takes a little bit of leaven to leaven the lump Botz, as it does 99% of food mixed with 1% of poison to kill a rat. The King James Bible is "Authorized" and it is the only one that is; " The Kings heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turns it withersoever he will "Prov21:1. We are talking GODs very pure Word here-Ps119:140) and ANY man that seeks to translate His Word must do it in the fear of the LORD and the power of the Holy Ghost. If you look into the lives of these "brave" translators that have dared do it, you will find some are not right with GOD and very dubious regards being born again. Some are practicing homosexuals, some unbelievers, some have had occultic aspirations and " many " unregenerate think that because they have mans university education (scholars) think that gives them the right to tamper with GODs holy Word

Hi TLF,

I believe you are making a mistake in how you attempt to promote the 1611 KJV above all others, and try to destabilise all other versions by pointing to one or two people involved in a group of 50 or more that were used in translation work....do you honestly think that if one or two people involved in such a consolidated effort, tried to incorporate their own personal agenda it would be so easily accepted and not thoroughly checked over? This is particularly the case the NASB and the ESV which are also under your blanket attack...I fear what you are doing is jumping on the band-wagon and hearing a report about someone being homosexual and then using that information to insinuate that those used in translation and editing are careless and ungodly people...when the facts are vastly different...especially if your reference about homosexuals is based solely around a NIV consultant Virginia Mollenkott.

I agree that there are some translations that are wholly unacceptable, but there are also some very good translations available...just as good as the 1611 KJV and better in places. Part of the troubling aspect of promoting the 1611 KJV above all others is that it leads to an unwholesome exclusivity, and elevates those that promote this view/conviction to a place of almost divine authority, when the fact is that the only people that hold such a one-sided view are those from the ranks of the KJO Believers themselves....and as I have indicated before, this is a dangerous position that has all the worrying trends associated with cults, and my fear is that those holding and promoting such views will eventually alienate and cut themselves off from the Body, because they believe they hold the monopoly on the truth...and those that disagree have sided with Satan.

JESUS said " For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus." Rev22:18-20

What i find common today Botz is the lack of the fear of GOD before mens eyes and the excuse that " i don't like that translation because it is hard to understand". Why will not one " study" to understand instead of seeking to change GODs Word to suit themselves ? All the old timers like the Wesley's, Spurgeons, Hudson Taylor, Moody, Jonathon Edwards etc etc used the King James and they were Godly men. It if was good enough for them then it is good enough for me .

The section of Revelation you quoted makes it seem as if the L-rd was referring to the whole of Scripture....whereas it was a reference to the book/scroll of Revelation. (that is no excuse to take away or add to any Scripture...just an observation how we can seem to place a slant on Scripture in the way we use it.)

I believe there is a great lack amongst Believers because we do not check out Scripture for ourselves and do not submerge ourselves in the Word...not a lot of study goes on and there seems to be a lazy attitude in the West as we have it comparatively easy and fill our lives with many distractions negating our need to understand Scripture, and thus the heart, character and ways of the L-rd amongst other things...there is very little desire to be a pilgrim....and as you say lack of fear of the L-rd.

However I believe you make an assumption when you quote those dear men of G-d...the assumption being that they would support your view. There are many truly G-d-fearing men and women around today who also find in all conscience they have to distance themselves from what you are attempting to promote.

Let's be lovers of the truth and not get side-tracked into holding on to unprofitable convictions that seem righteous but whose end is strife.

Hold-fast to what is true and profitable...discern the heart of G-d in all this.

Concerned......Botz

[coheir]

It only takes a little bit of leaven to leaven the lump Botz, as it does 99% of food mixed with 1% of poison to kill a rat. The King James Bible is "Authorized" and it is the only one that is; " The Kings heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turns it withersoever he will "Prov21:1. We are talking GODs very pure Word here-Ps119:140) and ANY man that seeks to translate His Word must do it in the fear of the LORD and the power of the Holy Ghost. If you look into the lives of these "brave" translators that have dared do it, you will find some are not right with GOD and very dubious regards being born again. Some are practicing homosexuals, some unbelievers, some have had occultic aspirations and " many " unregenerate think that because they have mans university education (scholars) think that gives them the right to tamper with GODs holy Word

Hi TLF,

I believe you are making a mistake in how you attempt to promote the 1611 KJV above all others, and try to destabilise all other versions by pointing to one or two people involved in a group of 50 or more that were used in translation work....do you honestly think that if one or two people involved in such a consolidated effort, tried to incorporate their own personal agenda it would be so easily accepted and not thoroughly checked over? This is particularly the case the NASB and the ESV which are also under your blanket attack...I fear what you are doing is jumping on the band-wagon and hearing a report about someone being homosexual and then using that information to insinuate that those used in translation and editing are careless and ungodly people...when the facts are vastly different...especially if your reference about homosexuals is based solely around a NIV consultant Virginia Mollenkott.

I agree that there are some translations that are wholly unacceptable, but there are also some very good translations available...just as good as the 1611 KJV and better in places. Part of the troubling aspect of promoting the 1611 KJV above all others is that it leads to an unwholesome exclusivity, and elevates those that promote this view/conviction to a place of almost divine authority, when the fact is that the only people that hold such a one-sided view are those from the ranks of the KJO Believers themselves....and as I have indicated before, this is a dangerous position that has all the worrying trends associated with cults, and my fear is that those holding and promoting such views will eventually alienate and cut themselves off from the Body, because they believe they hold the monopoly on the truth...and those that disagree have sided with Satan.

JESUS said " For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus." Rev22:18-20

What i find common today Botz is the lack of the fear of GOD before mens eyes and the excuse that " i don't like that translation because it is hard to understand". Why will not one " study" to understand instead of seeking to change GODs Word to suit themselves ? All the old timers like the Wesley's, Spurgeons, Hudson Taylor, Moody, Jonathon Edwards etc etc used the King James and they were Godly men. It if was good enough for them then it is good enough for me .

The section of Revelation you quoted makes it seem as if the L-rd was referring to the whole of Scripture....whereas it was a reference to the book/scroll of Revelation. (that is no excuse to take away or add to any Scripture...just an observation how we can seem to place a slant on Scripture in the way we use it.)

I believe there is a great lack amongst Believers because we do not check out Scripture for ourselves and do not submerge ourselves in the Word...not a lot of study goes on and there seems to be a lazy attitude in the West as we have it comparatively easy and fill our lives with many distractions negating our need to understand Scripture, and thus the heart, character and ways of the L-rd amongst other things...there is very little desire to be a pilgrim....and as you say lack of fear of the L-rd.

However I believe you make an assumption when you quote those dear men of G-d...the assumption being that they would support your view. There are many truly G-d-fearing men and women around today who also find in all conscience they have to distance themselves from what you are attempting to promote.

Let's be lovers of the truth and not get side-tracked into holding on to unprofitable convictions that seem righteous but whose end is strife.

Hold-fast to what is true and profitable...discern the heart of G-d in all this.

Concerned......Botz

I believe sound doctrine is very important Botz and i do not need any old timers to support my view, i used them as an example of Godliness. We need to realize that the enemy is a liar and a thief and because of my studies i have found GODs holy word being defiled. I am only seeking to warn believers of this " Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices" 2Cor2:11

Here are 2 links i would like you to check out, and if you are still unconvinced then i will not seek to warn you again. Fair deal Botz ?

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=1116082139113

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=37092224413

I only do this out of love for the Brethren even if i am resented for it ....

excellent video's Brother Amen

[gdemoss]

For the record let me state my position as one who uses the KJV as my only English translation. That said, I understand that it is also not accurately translated word for word. Such liberty was taken by the translators to translate 'iniquity' into 'transgressing the law' or 'may it never happen' into 'God Forbid!'. I am careful to go back and look over the Greek manuscripts, especially when something seems quite odd in a theological sense when compared to the tone of the rest of scripture. There is no translation that I have found yet, including Young's Literal translation, that actually brings out the fullness of what can be known in the Greek text. John 3:16 is a perfect example. The Greek understood would literally translate "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that any who continuously are believing in him should not cause themselves to perish but might have eternal life." Through the use of the subjunctive mood of verbs as well as the use of the middle voice we can know more about the who that is doing the what to whom and the probability behind the events taking place. The only guarantee in John 3:16 is that God made it possible for men to have eternal life.

I love my KJV as it is the closest thing I have to the truth printed in English, but praise God that we have the Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic manuscripts to research and pinpoint discrepancies with.

Gary

[coheir]

Curious why people use and promote other versions of the bible other than kjv. Aren't verses changed that give a different understanding than the original intent?

what say ye

Hi and welcome to Worthy,

Your question is something I have been looking into once again as it seems to crop up fairly regularly...this is what I understand so far.

There are a small group of sincere Believers who have been convinced that the 1611 KJB is somehow especially correct and preserved by G-ds grace for the English speaking peoples.

They seem convinced too that ever since then there has been some sort of skullduggery afoot that seeks to chip away at the authentic translation of the 1611 version and to replace it

with words that detract from the fuller sense they believe is contained only in the 1611 translation...I uunderstand this is because they will say the men King James chose were all

gifted scholars, loved G-d and were directed and guided by the Holy Spirit.....(others were not I presume)

When I have read and listened patiently to the supposed facts that promote the 1611 version above all else, I have noticed that they are very good at building up a strong argument

against people like Westcott and Hort, (who although they held some controversial ideas were actually professing Believers), however their arguments seem more directed against the

personal beliefs of these men, than their work on the manuscripts. I'm not saying it is unimportant...but it strikes me that the way these two men are attacked is solely to discredit

any possibility that their lifes work had merit. Modern scholarship may be indebted to their work, but from what I have read they revise it when they feel it is inadequate and do not

attempt to hold it forth like some Holy Grail.

When I listen to the vehement language and erstwhile tone of many KJO supporters (just visit any KJO website for a taste) I cannot escape the feeling that rather than enlighten the rest of us

and encourage the Body of Messiah they are more intent on hammering home their own brand of religious exclusivity that promotes their stance and negates and condemns those that do not

share their particular revelation.

From past experience and Scripture I find this to be 'skating on thin ice'...there is an imbalance that is troubling.

If I understand their main thrust, it is that Satan is cleverly at work subverting every Bible that does not conform with the 1611 version, by introducing a watering down of the original

intent of the words, adding and subtracting from the available documents, solely in order to pervert the truth....if we sum it up in reality there is a huge conspiracy going on, and all

the modern translators and publishers are united in their aim (consciously or soulishly) to blind G-ds people and hide the 'real truths' that the 1611 solemnly upholds.

The reason I think this is not only wrong but a fundamentally important issue is that in a very real sense it is introducing an element to the Gospel that is unbiblical, and against which

Paul was at pains should not gain a foothold within the Body. In his day one thing that troubled Believers was the idea that their salvation could not be held as authentic unless

they were circumcised....in this instance what is being called into question is the authenticity of a Believers faith if he has been deceived by pernicious translations that are the

tools of devils and promote lies.

The substance of the KJO claims can easily be weighed up when you place a verse side by side with say the NASB or ESV (both of which I use) and see why each translates it the way they do...

By their own rules, the KJV is found wanting in places and is no more perfect than many other attempts at excellence in translation....and for many the language is a big

disadvantage and hardly an encouragement.

I'm not going to say any more at this point, but let Scripture speak.

Galatians 5: 1It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.

2Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. 3And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. 4You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 5For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness. 6For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.

7You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth? 8This persuasion did not come from Him who calls you. 9A little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough. 10I have confidence in you in the Lord that you will adopt no other view; but the one who is disturbing you will bear his judgment, whoever he is. 11But I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why am I still persecuted? Then the stumbling block of the cross has been abolished. 12I wish that those who are troubling you would even mutilate themselves.

13For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. 14For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, “YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.” 15But if you bite and devour one another, take care that you are not consumed by one another.

I ask you to look at a couple verses

Rev 22: 16 kjv

I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Isa 14: 12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O day-star, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, that didst lay low the nations!

Isa 14: 12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

In Rev 22: 16 Jesus says he is the bright and morning star kjv

In Isa 14: 12 kjv says lucifer, son of the morning

In Isa 14: 12 non kjv removes lucifer and replaces it with O day star.

[Botz]

I believe sound doctrine is very important Botz and i do not need any old timers to support my view, i used them as an example of Godliness. We need to realize that the enemy is a liar and a thief and because of my studies i have found GODs holy word being defiled. I am only seeking to warn believers of this " Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices" 2Cor2:11

Of course doctrine is important TLF I think we all agree on that, and handling the Word of Truth carelessly unfortunately seems to abound in these days. The assumption you make with using the old-timers

is that if they lived today their bible of choice would be the same as yours...that is pure speculation. I believe those that helped put together the 1611 version would also welcome much of the study and devotion

to honest biblical research that has gone on since their time, especially in light of new discoveries and better methods of textual comparison and study with the onset of computers...I don't believe they would have

made a nehustan out of their own scholarship and G-d given abilities the way the KJO Believers are doing today.

Here are 2 links i would like you to check out, and if you are still unconvinced then i will not seek to warn you again. Fair deal Botz ?

Fair deal.

Just so you know, I continuously check things out and am always ready to be persuaded by the truth, but experience over many years has taught me to be kind but cautious when people appear to beat a drum

that has another beat to it, because most of the time they have proven to be sincerely unbalanced and so much zeal has been channeled into something that is unprofitable.

I only do this out of love for the Brethren even if i am resented for it ....

I realise that...and I have no problem with your motives. I do not resent what you are trying to do, but I am deeply concerned for you and others that have bought into this teaching in case you have yourselves been

blinded by the passionate method in which this theory has been diseminated....To you it must seem that you are on a godly mission to warn the Body of Messiah of the subtle watering down of the Bible through the

joint conspiracy of all translators, linguists and editors...none of which measure up in ability or righteousness to those providentially chosen by James 1 under the guiding hand of the L-rd.

To me it seems that you want us to use the horse and cart and forego more modern forms of transport because they are all corrupt.

[Botz]

I believe sound doctrine is very important Botz and i do not need any old timers to support my view, i used them as an example of Godliness. We need to realize that the enemy is a liar and a thief and because of my studies i have found GODs holy word being defiled. I am only seeking to warn believers of this " Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices" 2Cor2:11

Here are 2 links i would like you to check out, and if you are still unconvinced then i will not seek to warn you again. Fair deal Botz ?

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=1116082139113

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=37092224413

Hi TLF,

I have listened to the first link and made notes while cross-referencing....the arguments brought up are very very poor, and I believe anybody with access to several Bibles will soon see

that the majority of the grievances are simply sheer fantasy. Does this gentleman honestly think everyone is so gullible that they are just going to see his apparent point without looking

any further or a little deeper...his exegesis is remarkably shaky and his conclusions even shakier.

Right from the get-go he makes a statement along the lines that if you listen to him and are a true Christian you will see the evidence and change your mind....so there we have it, in one

breath he is catagorically casting doubt on peoples salvation if they disagree with what he is presenting...I was astonished.

He softens the blow a little later (also by contradicting his initial statement) by suggesting somewhat patronizingly that he isn't saying those who use other Bibles aren't saved...just that

they are basically open to deception, and in so many words are less of a follower of Jesus than those who uphold the KJV.

This is just the starters...he then goes on to quote the differences between Gen 1:1. Is 14:12. Dan 3:25. Matt 5:22. John 1:18. and 1Tim 3:16.

I don't disagree with everything here, and in some instances I can see that I would rather go with the KJV than some others...but he makes some bad assumptions and jumps to unsubstantiated

claims...especially trying to demonstrate that allalternative translations are actively being used by Satan to deceive the masses...it really boils down to a conspiracy theory. Although I do agree

there are some translations that like Judas, would have been better never to have seen the light of day...but they stick out like a sore thumb.

I think he really shoots himself in the foot with 1 Tim 6:10 and the translations that say the love of money is a root of 'all kinds of evil' as opposed to the KJV, 'the root of all evil'...the translators are making the

distinction that money is actually not the root of all evil, BUT a root of all kinds of evils. When looking at the Greek I can see why both arrive at the translation they do...but I think the NASB gives a better

understanding of what was intended, because if you think about it, the love of money is not literally the 'root of all evil'...rather it is a roots behind many evils that we recognise. So why he gets all hot under

the collar over this baffles me.

The reference to Lucifer as opposed to morning star in Is 14:12 is also interesting, especially as it was Jerome who utilised the word Lucifer through a traditional understanding and not according to the

text of Scripture...but this seems to be completely over-looked by this fellow, as is the fact that morning-star or day-star is a perfectly legitimate translation, and in no way seeks to equate Satan with

a title of Jesus because the context is completely different...but if anyone took what is being said at face value they would again think some conspiracy is afoot.

If warning lights aren't flashing by now...they should be.

I will listen to the next link tomorrow.