Montana Marv Posted February 21, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,135 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 1,091 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted February 21, 2012 It all hangs on the timing of the last seven years. Why do I say seven years! Matt 24:15 - So when you see standing in the Holy Place, the A/D spoken by the prophet Daniel. This cannot happen UNLESS there is a temple. No temple, no one can stand there. The Dome on the Rock occupies much of that area at this time. When does the temple get built, with all the Islamic opposition. It can not. Islam must be humbled (Ezk 38-39) (for all Israel is to bury the dead for 7 months and get paid for doing so), then the Temple can be built. Who allows the construction of this Temple, (the Beast of Rev 13). Why? Payment for clearing the land. As to the Gentile believers, take the Mark and Die, or go into Captivity. In Christ Montana Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrobyter Posted February 21, 2012 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 9 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 6,596 Content Per Day: 1.07 Reputation: 2,446 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/28/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/28/1957 Share Posted February 21, 2012 It all hangs on the timing of the last seven years. Why do I say seven years! Matt 24:15 - So when you see standing in the Holy Place, the A/D spoken by the prophet Daniel. This cannot happen UNLESS there is a temple. No temple, no one can stand there. The Dome on the Rock occupies much of that area at this time. When does the temple get built, with all the Islamic opposition. It can not. Islam must be humbled (Ezk 38-39) (for all Israel is to bury the dead for 7 months and get paid for doing so), then the Temple can be built. Who allows the construction of this Temple, (the Beast of Rev 13). Why? Payment for clearing the land. As to the Gentile believers, take the Mark and Die, or go into Captivity. In Christ Montana Marv Shalom, Montana Marv. Ummm... That's a bit of a hodge-podge, y'know. There's much in what you just said that is not connected; they are non sequiturs! Usually, you're better than that; were you sleepy when you wrote it or were you just off your game? I know that the typical beliefs of all three, traditional, tribulational points of view think of the tribulation as if it were identical to the 70th Seven of Dani'el 9. However, nowhere in Scripture are the two connected. What does "7 months" have to do with "7 years?" You well know that half of 7 years is 3.5 years or 42 months (by the traditional viewpoints). "Seven months" is only 1/12th of the "seven years!" I DO believe that the Temple has to be re-built for different reasons, and therefore, I agree with you about Islamic opposition being overcome, but what you're suggesting is that the occupation of the "bone-buriers" is the source OF the construction of the Temple, and that's just not right. The "bone-burier" occupation isn't commissioned until AFTER the Messiah returns. So, really the "seven months" are not even a part of the "seven years," which most say come BEFORE the Messiah comes back. The "bone-buriers" are the CLEAN-UP CREW after the final battle of Har-Megiddown, when Yeshua` has trounced His enemies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana Marv Posted February 22, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,135 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 1,091 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted February 22, 2012 It all hangs on the timing of the last seven years. Why do I say seven years! Matt 24:15 - So when you see standing in the Holy Place, the A/D spoken by the prophet Daniel. This cannot happen UNLESS there is a temple. No temple, no one can stand there. The Dome on the Rock occupies much of that area at this time. When does the temple get built, with all the Islamic opposition. It can not. Islam must be humbled (Ezk 38-39) (for all Israel is to bury the dead for 7 months and get paid for doing so), then the Temple can be built. Who allows the construction of this Temple, (the Beast of Rev 13). Why? Payment for clearing the land. As to the Gentile believers, take the Mark and Die, or go into Captivity. In Christ Montana Marv Shalom, Montana Marv. Ummm... That's a bit of a hodge-podge, y'know. There's much in what you just said that is not connected; they are non sequiturs! Usually, you're better than that; were you sleepy when you wrote it or were you just off your game? I know that the typical beliefs of all three, traditional, tribulational points of view think of the tribulation as if it were identical to the 70th Seven of Dani'el 9. However, nowhere in Scripture are the two connected. What does "7 months" have to do with "7 years?" You well know that half of 7 years is 3.5 years or 42 months (by the traditional viewpoints). "Seven months" is only 1/12th of the "seven years!" I DO believe that the Temple has to be re-built for different reasons, and therefore, I agree with you about Islamic opposition being overcome, but what you're suggesting is that the occupation of the "bone-buriers" is the source OF the construction of the Temple, and that's just not right. The "bone-burier" occupation isn't commissioned until AFTER the Messiah returns. So, really the "seven months" are not even a part of the "seven years," which most say come BEFORE the Messiah comes back. The "bone-buriers" are the CLEAN-UP CREW after the final battle of Har-Megiddown, when Yeshua` has trounced His enemies! Roy You are mistaken, I am Not sleepy, really not far off my game. But you are correct, it was a bit of a hodge-podge. The seven months are included within the 7 years. There must be a Temple for the A/D to be set up in. Not here yet. So the Temple must be built prior to the last 42 months. Wouldn't this kind of give a prelude to the final events. But with the strong presence of Islam now in the area and the presence of the Dome of the Rock on or near the Temple site, there is no way the Temple can be built with the present circumstances. Something has to give and that would be the demise of Islam; Then the Temple can be built. The demise of Islam is the War of Ezk 38, 39. (this is not Armageddon). In Armageddon only the birds of the air eat the flesh of those who die), But in Ezk 38, 39, it is the birds and wild animals which are to eat the flesh. The seven months of clean up occur after the demise of Islam and before or during the building of the Temple. Since most of the men of Israel are to bury the dead during this time; who then is to help build this Temple; Possible answer would be those Gentile believers who do not receive the mark of the beast, They are sent into captivity, maybe their captivity is to Israel to help in the construction of the Temple. Just a thought. Gentile converts may be sent to Israel as part of "captivity". In Christ Montana Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted February 22, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.99 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I am convinced that there will be Gentile converts continuing into the tribulation. It is my personal persuasion that much of the church will be going through it and some who were not faithful becoming faithful and still converting others. I believe that the temple is already here and it is the current church which is the body of Christ. The Antichrist will set up rule in the hearts of the congregation where Christ belongs as the great apostasy prophesied of manifests. The wrath of God at this point will be unrestrained and loosed upon the earth as never before. We must always remember that the woman is the weaker vessel and that woman is the bride of Christ whom Satan can deceive just like Eve. But that said, end times prophesy is my weak point. There is a great possibility that there are many things I have not yet considered or seen in scripture that might invalidate my view. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry 2 Posted February 22, 2012 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 791 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 205 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/29/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 22, 2012 - Is there any scripture that states that there will be Gentile Converts from within the Tribulation period? Revelation 7:9 are not just Jewish; they are all nations. After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; There are also two witnesses during the first three and on half years, and we read of a great multitude being delivered in Revelation 7:14 . . . These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. - How are the Jews "delivered" (Daniel 12:1) ? Revelation 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. Revelation 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women (Man child - also note the testimony of the five wise virgins); for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever He goeth. These were redeemed from among men (Man child), being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. Firstfruits of who? Israel. Revelation 14:5 . . They are without fault before the throne of God. Revelation 7:2. They received the seal of the living God in Revelation 7:2. My thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chloe_fantastic Posted February 22, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 868 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 221 Days Won: 2 Joined: 06/09/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/17/1981 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I would encourage everyone to NOT listen to their Pastors on this issue Indeed! Distrust my pastor under whose teaching I have sat for years over a random guy on a message board! Now that's wise counsel! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted February 22, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,762 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 22, 2012 Retrobyter, Excellent job of illustrating the futility of discussing the tribulation and timing of events around it. The Bible doesn't define "Great Tribulation". Therefore, it could be the first 3 1/2, the second 3 1/2, 7,or even 2000 years. Or it could be unrelated to any of those time periods. How can you even discuss a topic, if you can't even agree on its definition? I would encourage everyone to NOT listen to their Pastors on this issue, because they are usually parroting what they've learned in seminary Address this topic by prayerfully approaching God's word and relying on the revelation of the Holy Spirit. (Rather on the traditions of man) You are correct that it does not define what will happen, but it does give an indication as to when. Matthew 24:15-22 Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened. It has to be pretty bad if it is something that has never happened and so bad that nothing will be like it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zemke Posted February 22, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,028 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 451 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/24/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted February 22, 2012 I am convinced that there will be Gentile converts continuing into the tribulation. It is my personal persuasion that much of the church will be going through it and some who were not faithful becoming faithful and still converting others. I believe that the temple is already here and it is the current church which is the body of Christ. The Antichrist will set up rule in the hearts of the congregation where Christ belongs as the great apostasy prophesied of manifests. The wrath of God at this point will be unrestrained and loosed upon the earth as never before. We must always remember that the woman is the weaker vessel and that woman is the bride of Christ whom Satan can deceive just like Eve. But that said, end times prophesy is my weak point. There is a great possibility that there are many things I have not yet considered or seen in scripture that might invalidate my view. Gary I agree about a temple already existing. Also about deception and an abomination in the church. There have been many abominations on the temple mound and I believe there will be another. But with all prophecy we must wait and see. I think your view is spot on for us today, an abomination is taking place in the temple of God. I don't look at prophecy with a prediction/fulfilled view. Prophecy is pattern until ultimate fulfillment. At this time I hold to the church going in and at some point being taken out of the tribulation, the second half of the seventieth week, after we know who the son of perdition is. But converts may come mostly from third world nations just like today. We do need to read and look around us. Watch and pray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrobyter Posted February 22, 2012 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 9 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 6,596 Content Per Day: 1.07 Reputation: 2,446 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/28/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/28/1957 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Shalom, OneLight, and you too, TrackerJack. Retrobyter, Excellent job of illustrating the futility of discussing the tribulation and timing of events around it. The Bible doesn't define "Great Tribulation". Therefore, it could be the first 3 1/2, the second 3 1/2, 7,or even 2000 years. Or it could be unrelated to any of those time periods. How can you even discuss a topic, if you can't even agree on its definition? I would encourage everyone to NOT listen to their Pastors on this issue, because they are usually parroting what they've learned in seminary Address this topic by prayerfully approaching God's word and relying on the revelation of the Holy Spirit. (Rather on the traditions of man) You are correct that it does not define what will happen, but it does give an indication as to when. Matthew 24:15-22 Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened. It has to be pretty bad if it is something that has never happened and so bad that nothing will be like it again. Look, guys, the phrase, "for then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be," falls into the same category of impossible exaggeration as does the statement "if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out" (Luke 19:40). It's like saying "there's not a ghost of a chance!" The stones MAY have been able to "cry out," but we'll never know because it was IMPOSSIBLE for His disciples and the children to "hold their peace!" Matthew 24:21 should NEVER be quoted without Matthew 24:20! The two are parts of a single thought! Just as partial truth is a lie, so quoting half of one of Yeshua`s statements is a misrepresentation of what He said! This is what He said: Matthew 24:20-21 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. KJV They are LINKED TOGETHER! The instructions were to His disciples - those who were sitting on Har HaZeitiym (the Mount of Olives) right in front of Him - to pray to God that THEIR escape not have to be in the rainy season ("winter") or on the Shabbat (sabbath day), and if THEY NEGLECTED TO PRAY, "THEN shall be great tribulation (thlipsis = pressure; distress), such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no nor ever shall be"! It never happened then because they did NOT neglect to pray! This was the escape that some of Yeshua`s disciples IN THE FIRST CENTURY had to make about 66 A.D. before the destruction in 70 A.D. ALWAYS look for the pronouns in the Olivet Discourse! If "ye" and "you" and "your" are being used, Yeshua` is talking DIRECTLY to those men sitting in front of Him! If not, THEN AND THEN ONLY may it refer to a future group of people, even those in OUR future, which can include US! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 ALWAYS look for the pronouns in the Olivet Discourse! If "ye" and "you" and "your" are being used, Yeshua` is talking DIRECTLY to those men sitting in front of Him! If not, THEN AND THEN ONLY may it refer to a future group of people, even those in OUR future, which can include US!.... From The Age Of Four And Five I Always Took It Personal, Even Sampson And The Chick And she said unto him, How canst thou say, I love thee, when thine heart is not with me? thou hast mocked me these three times, and hast not told me wherein thy great strength lieth. And it came to pass, when she pressed him daily with her words, and urged him, so that his soul was vexed unto death; That he told her all his heart, and said unto her. There hath not come a rasor upon mine head; for I have been a Nazarite unto God from my mother's womb: if I be shaven, then my strength will go from me, and I shall become weak, and be like any other man. And when Delilah saw that he had told her all his heart, she sent and called for the lords of the Philistines, saying, Come up this once, for he hath shewed me all his heart. Then the lords of the Philistines came up unto her, and brought money in their hand. And she made him sleep upon her knees; and she called for a man, and she caused him to shave off the seven locks of his head; and she began to afflict him, and his strength went from him. And she said, The Philistines be upon thee, Samson. And he awoke out of his sleep, and said, I will go out as at other times before, and shake myself. And he wist not that the LORD was departed from him. But the Philistines took him, and put out his eyes, and brought him down to Gaza, and bound him with fetters of brass; and he did grind in the prison house. Judges 16:15-21 Or Nabad And Abihu And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not. And there went out fire from the LORD, and devoured them, and they died before the LORD. Leviticus 10:1-2 These Fellows Sure Paid A Great Price To Teach A Kid A Thing Or Two Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts