Evil Spirits are??

[rjp34652]

Been in a discussion about Evil Spirits before, but most importantly we should humbly agree that they exist. Aside from this there are some theological issues along the way, and I have several different books by Ing, Prince, Bubeck... which sorta go over differing things.

Ok, the Bible makes it clear that the fallen Angels are in chains already, thus how could they be the Evil spirits that cast doubt and troubles to Christians or anything?

I have heard explanation of the "Giants" of the Old Testament being these actual things as well.

I am going to dig out some old books, as well as my better commentary to seek this out.

I am sure there are varying opinions, but what scriptural proof and Biblical analysis can you support that Evil Spirits exist as??

I appreciate the great discerners upon this.

The weirdest thing about 'scriptural proofs' especially with regard to demons or unclean spirits is that no one accepts them - scriptural proofs that is. A lot of folks seem to want to run to some other source for evidence. As far as I'm concerned the Bible is sufficient, but if other proofs is what you want I've got a bag full of them for you.

Opinions seem to carry more weight than scripture and if used at all Bible verses merely support opinion. Oh what a shock to read such things some may say! Yet it's the truth. If you don't believe it, then take time and read all the posts on this thread. It matters not if an elder is present, a scholar or even one that -God forbid- should quote scripture to support a logical assertion.

The first question in the thread is easily answered, "do evil spirits exist?" The questioner states that he has read the Bible, but quite obviously doesn't believe or accept what is written there because the question is refashioned and asked again. Which brings us back to square one again; scriptural proofs really aren't accepted.

How about unscriptural proofs?

Start by asking Rosemary Woodhouse for her opinion on the subject. The story of what happened to her baby opened the door to all manner of acceptance of demonic influence in the stories of our culture. It was a first, but it wasn't the last. It opened the door to real and actual demonic influences that previously were thought of as rubbish.

While you're at it consult whatever historical references you may wish to peruse on the year 1968. It was the year the whole planet went to the devil and we've not been the same since. A paradigm shift occurred in human culture that year and one of the considerable effects upon culture was that of DEMONS. From start to finish, from the Good Book and the last great national revival to the Death of God movement and the beginnings of militant atheism, from life to assassinations and the convulsions of nations it was an unholy year - the year of the minions of satan. Did anything good happen that year?

I'll provide a list of the horrendous effects demonic powers had on the planet that year, but I think you'll have more fun doing your own homework. There is no greater physical evidence of evil at work outside the Holy Bible than the events of 1968.

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

Edited February 27, 2013 by rjp34652

[Sevenseas]

Going to check...

Didn't take long...I'm not American, so are you basing that year basically on US events? I almost do not think so as you mention the world (planet)

My list will all be quotes as I am too young to have kept track of or know these things: (also why we have all the diff formatting and text as I am just copy pasting)

1. The impact of the Vietnam War, the Civil Rights Movement, the politics of the new left and the unrest on college campuses across the nation leads to a major eruption of events late in the decade. 1968 is a year of demonstrations and assassinations, marked by violent protests at Columbia University and the Chicago Democratic Convention and the untimely deaths of Martin Luther King Jr. and Senator Robert Kennedy. During this period, NYU is also experiencing some of its most volatile student activism stirred on by the Hatchett Affair and the Chi-Reston incident.

2. Hmmm.....just came across a book by Mark Kurlansky entitled "1968 The Year that Rocked the World" preview of book: To some, 1968 was the year of sex, drugs, and rock and roll. Yet it was also the year of the Martin Luther King, Jr., and Bobby Kennedy assassinations; the riots at the Democratic National Convention in Chicago; Prague Spring; the antiwar movement and the Tet Offensive; Black Power; the generation gap; avant-garde theater; the upsurge of the women’s movement; and the beginning of the end for the Soviet Union.

In this monumental book,Mark Kurlansky brings to teeming life the cultural and political history of that pivotal year, when television’s influence on global events first became apparent, and spontaneous uprisings occurred simultaneously around the world. Encompassing the diverse realms of youth and music, politics and war, economics and the media, 1968 shows how twelve volatile months transformed who we were as a people–and led us to where we are today.

3. The Minnesota Historical Society, in partnership with the Atlanta History Center, the Chicago History Museum and the Oakland Museum of California, brings you a major exhibit documenting this pivotal year.The 1968 Exhibit is an ambitious, state-of-the-art, multimedia exhibit that looks at how the experiences of the year fueled a persistent, if often contradictory, sense of identity for the people who were there. It is the unsettled nature of the debate about damage done or victories won that makes an exhibit on this subject so compelling and urgent.

The 1968 Exhibit on Tour

The 1968 Exhibit is a traveling exhibit organized by the Minnesota History Center in partnership with the Atlanta History Center, the Chicago History Museum and the Oakland Museum of California. The exhibit is supported by major grants from the National Endowment for the Humanities and the Institute of Museum and Library Services.

4. this one is from "The Socialist Review" and is interesting because it came up on page one when I did a '1968 world events' search (hence the left leanings)

Occasionally one year can cast a spell over the decades that follow. 1968 was such a year. Supporters of capitalism still bemoan its impact 40 years on. Nicolas Sarkozy on the eve of his election declared he aimed to eradicate the "harm" that it had done. Before him it had been Tony Blair who blamed "the 1960s" for what he sees as the ills of society today.

Yet you would have great difficulty understanding why the year was so significant from most of the media coverage. It has been dominated by renegades from the left who have turned into right wing fogies, with the likes of Martin Kettle and David Aaronovitch regretting their youthful folly. Interspersed with them has been the occasional ageing hippy recalling with nostalgia overindulgence in drugs and sex. At best what happened is presented as a euphoric student rebellion against conservative social mores: a time of dropping out, dropping acid and, perhaps, challenging old sexual stereotypes.

There are very different reasons for commemorating 1968. It was one of those moments in history when it suddenly seemed that the coming together of many different acts of revolt could overturn an exploitative and oppressive society in its totality.

And I am running out of time, so here is a link to 1968 a timeline of events

[enoob57]

How about unscriptural proofs?

You probably don't realize this but if it's truth... reality then it's of His Word - either creative or written... Love, Steven

[RustyAngeL]

The enemy is only as powerful as we make him, and maybe the reason as Christians we don't talk much about Satan is because he just isn't worth talking about. We are here to lift up Jesus. Yes people need to know that without Christ in their lives their eternity is going to horrible, more then horrible, be we are here to offer up hope from that and that hope comes from Jesus. And just so you have my answer as to what evil spirits are? they come from the enemy. They are haters of God and haters of His Children. There is only one good Spirit and that is the Holy Spirit. Any other spirit needs to be know for what he is, a messenger from the evil one. I hope this answer helps.

[rjp34652]

How about unscriptural proofs?

You probably don't realize this but if it's truth... reality then it's of His Word - either creative or written... Love, Steven

Truth is that which is consistent with what is.

That's the classic definition.

The truth is of His word created or written? The statement is very close to diluting the written word of God - The Holy Bible.

But that's exactly what's been going on in Christendom - dilution of the truth to the point where it's no longer absolute but relative to every man's point of view.

I think you've missed my point.

Attend any adult 'Bible study'. People there don't study the Bible. They certainly aren't concerned with 'the truth' and they are absolutely not worried about what evil spirits are - fictional or otherwise and how and why they impact Christians.

They study situational ethics or personal improvement or the biggest lie of all - the prosperity gospel. There is more gangnam style dancing going on than celebration of communion - but I digress. Sorry.

Christians today cannot and will not stomach sound teaching. That's why I supplied unscriptural truths in my post. It was my hope that if scriptural truths aren't readily accepted, then I'd supply a few unscriptural ones.

and evil spirits are???

Do YOU know who Mrs. Woodhouse was and what happened to her child? At the time millions of people were affected by the story. Millions still are even though the newest generation has forgotten the story. They know the child's father, though. No surprise there. Not now. Global culture was affected by the story. and evil spirits are???

I was sitting next to a pair of Catholic nuns when I first heard about it. It was one of those times when you remember where you were and what you were doing when something important happened. The nuns seemed to have no reaction at first. Neither did I, but it changed the nation. It changed a lot.

And that's my point exactly.

Few seek the truth. Scripture is merely used as a sort of religious ammunition to shoot at people - like throwing rice at a wedding. In neither case does anything grow. The rice is already dead and cooked and so is the attempt to heave scripture verses. Christians are shooting blanks and everybody knows it except them. The Word of God isn't a series of magic incantations, yet its treated as though it is. God's word is meant to be taken into the heart and applied there. When that happens rivers of life pour out like living water.

...except that the church is in a drought right now and doesn't even know it....

Evil spirits are having a real good time in church these days. The funny thing is that the activity is being hotly debated and no one bothers to ask why it's happening in the first place.

(hint: it isn't the 'end times' effect)

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

Edited March 1, 2013 by rjp34652

[rjp34652]

Going to check...

Didn't take long...I'm not American, so are you basing that year basically on US events? I almost do not think so as you mention the world (planet)

And I am running out of time, so here is a link to 1968 a timeline of events

Wow. You blew my mind. I honestly didn't think anyone would check.

You are right. My reference was to global events of that year. In 1968 the government of France totally collapsed. De Gaulle, then president, had to flee to Germany. Once there he dissolved the entire government and arranged to create a new one. No Frenchman in history could have pulled that off except de Gaulle. Rather ironic when you think about it. In WWII, the German government caused de Gaulle to flee to England where he worked to rebuild the government. A quarter century later the same man flees the country again to rebuild the French government again. That time he fled TO the country he once fled FROM - to do the exact same thing for his nation! Strange.

and evil spirits are???

Blood and cultural implosion swept across the planet from one end to the other. It was a paradigm shift in the history of man.......and few realize it.

and evil spirits are???

In that year the infamous little red book cultural inversion happened in China. Chinese youth vowed to kill every Christian and destroy every reference to Christianity in the country. They nearly succeeded. Estimates are vague, but some sources claim millions died at the hands of the cultural fanatics of Chairman Mao. It was evil and the history of that year was written in the ink of human blood.

and evil spirits are???

There were numerous revolutions planet wide as well as the three US assassinations (an ambassador was murdered in a Central American country in addition to King & Kennedy). US race riots flared from one end of the nation to the other and threatened to bring about martial law. Culturally there was the opening of the Broadway musical HAIR the opening song of which was a national best seller. "This is the dawning of the age of Aquarius," the lyric went. Except that no serious astrologer could admit to knowing exactly when that mystical age was really supposed to begin. They're still guessing, btw. What actually began was a tsunami of murder - planet wide. The Tet offensive in Viet Nam changed the direction of the war there and American culture would begin its decline into the abyss of mediocrity, godlessness and fascism.

and evil spirits are???

In Britain the riots and civil unrest were so severe the government feared national insurrection. In Russia the first evidence of the crumbling Soviet empire was beginning to be felt despite the Red Army invasion of one of its client states.

and evil spirits are???

and Mrs. Woodhouse had her baby. It's father has been having his way with America and the world ever since.

and evil spirits are - not taking the day off. Ask Rosemary.

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

Edited March 1, 2013 by rjp34652

[Sevenseas]

oh hey listen ~ I know how real demonic spirits are and I learned the hard way which I probably do not have to explain to you. Christians ignore them at your own peril. Say they cannot

hurt you and you are already under their influence. I could make some people here really angry at me if I wrote what I actually know about them. So, I just do my dumb blond thing

and all is well with the world. This planet is under so much deception that there are no words. Not very much is real. It is refreshing for me to read posts where someone steps

out and says take a look at this.

Paradigm shift is right. I had my own personal paradigm shift when I was 20 and I have never been the same. You may have noticed some of my comments when people get on here

and declare themselves to be a prophet....they are ridiculous caricatures and I would be banned for saying so but I am saying it here because I am not attacking anyone...just making

an observation.....yet, Christians seem to eat that stuff up...not everyone, but you know what I mean. I say you know what I mean because reading your posts I can see that you

would know what I mean.

If demons are not somehow affecting you, whoever you are, then understand that you are not any threat to their kingdom. So, ask yourself what Jesus meant by warning over and over

about deception. And yes, demons can most certainly inhabit a Christian. Oh yes, they certainly can. No where in scripture does it say they cannot. Nowhere.

PS I do love the Lord....because He IS real! I add that because my focus is NOT on the devil or his legions...my focus is on God, my Savior, but I know what I know and not

because I want to because I would have preferred to remain ignorant. Truly.

[Sevenseas]

But that's exactly what's been going on in Christendom - dilution of the truth to the point where it's no longer absolute but relative to every man's point of view.

uh huh. and we have to give everyone room to speak their version of the truth because we just love everyone and we might offend them. as we all go down the drain at supersonic hyper speed

Christians today cannot and will not stomach sound teaching. That's why I supplied unscriptural truths in my post. It was my hope that if scriptural truths aren't readily accepted, then I'd supply a few unscriptural ones.

God Himself delivered me out of the darkness and when He did, He gave me this verse: "He sent His word and healed them and delivered them from their destructions Psalm 107:20

Give thanks to the Lord, for he is good;

his love endures forever.

2Let the redeemed of the Lord say this—

those he redeemed from the hand of the foe,

3those he gathered from the lands,

from east and west, from north and south.^a

4Some wandered in desert wastelands,

finding no way to a city where they could settle.

5They were hungry and thirsty,

and their lives ebbed away.

6Then they cried out to the Lord in their trouble,

and he delivered them from their distress.

7He led them by a straight way

to a city where they could settle.

8Let them give thanks to the Lord for his unfailing love

and his wonderful deeds for men,

9for he satisfies the thirsty

and fills the hungry with good things.

10Some sat in darkness and the deepest gloom,

prisoners suffering in iron chains,

11for they had rebelled against the words of God

and despised the counsel of the Most High.

12So he subjected them to bitter labor;

they stumbled, and there was no one to help.

13Then they cried to the Lord in their trouble,

and he saved them from their distress.

14He brought them out of darkness and the deepest gloom

and broke away their chains.

15Let them give thanks to the Lord for his unfailing love

and his wonderful deeds for men,

16for he breaks down gates of bronze

and cuts through bars of iron.

17Some became fools through their rebellious ways

and suffered affliction because of their iniquities.

18They loathed all food

and drew near the gates of death.

19Then they cried to the Lord in their trouble,

and he saved them from their distress.

20He sent forth his word and healed them;

he rescued them from the grave.

21Let them give thanks to the Lord for his unfailing love

and his wonderful deeds for men.

22Let them sacrifice thank offerings

and tell of his works with songs of joy.

23Others went out on the sea in ships;

they were merchants on the mighty waters.

24They saw the works of the Lord,

his wonderful deeds in the deep.

25For he spoke and stirred up a tempest

that lifted high the waves.

26They mounted up to the heavens and went down to the depths;

in their peril their courage melted away.

27They reeled and staggered like drunken men;

they were at their wits’ end.

28Then they cried out to the Lord in their trouble,

and he brought them out of their distress.

29He stilled the storm to a whisper;

the waves of the sea were hushed.

30They were glad when it grew calm,

and he guided them to their desired haven.

31Let them give thanks to the Lord for his unfailing love

and his wonderful deeds for men.

32Let them exalt him in the assembly of the people

and praise him in the council of the elders.

33He turned rivers into a desert,

flowing springs into thirsty ground,

34and fruitful land into a salt waste,

because of the wickedness of those who lived there.

35He turned the desert into pools of water

and the parched ground into flowing springs;

36there he brought the hungry to live,

and they founded a city where they could settle.

37They sowed fields and planted vineyards

that yielded a fruitful harvest;

38he blessed them, and their numbers greatly increased,

and he did not let their herds diminish.

39Then their numbers decreased, and they were humbled

by oppression, calamity and sorrow;

40he who pours contempt on nobles

made them wander in a trackless waste.

41But he lifted the needy out of their affliction

and increased their families like flocks.

42The upright see and rejoice,

but all the wicked shut their mouths.

43Whoever is wise, let him heed these things

and consider the great love of the Lord.

Indeed, if anyone has read this far, you are wise. Salvation is of the Lord and His word does not return to Him void.

Thank you rjp34652...you actually were a help to me today. You have reminded me that God is real even though I know He is

Deception. Savor the word. It most often has a delicious taste.

Guess I'll go back to the sugar coated wet bread if I want to post anywhere else...or not at all which is becoming more and more my desire as I cannot post what I would really like to

[Sevenseas]

sigh...I thought I had better come back and clarify regarding Christians having demons...that is exactly it...the Christian has the demon...the demon does not possess them...possession denotes

ownership and Christians are not owned by the devil

and yes of course you can boot them out....and I disagree with all the over blown so called deliverance ministries...dealing with demons is supposed to be the norn for EVERY saved person...

read the Bible that is what it states...what do you suppose spiritual warfare is? who do you suppose you are battling if not invisible demonic forces? who is that thwarts your prayers

and opposes the kingdom of God? I don't mean a kingdom on earth...I mean the same one Jesus meant

If you are a Christian you cannot be possessed but you can have a demon in you, you can be cursed as the demon gives ground for that and you can be deceived and if the devil already

has the world as the prince of the power of the air, why does he need to go bother the unsaved? If you are saved, YOU are the enemy and are a target and if you are floating along

like a romance novel in a canoe with still waters, you are either in the eye of the storm or a fence straddler

don't shoot me.....it's all in the Bible....don't ask me to provide the verses...if you don't know these things, it is time you did some Bible study yourself

ps to the ps....Christians are their own worst enemy...love each other...stop shooting at each other....you are building stones...build yourself up and then reach out

and build up those around you...become a refuge in the storm

[enoob57]

John 6:68-71

68 But Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.

69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."*

70 Jesus answered them, "Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?"

71 He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for it was he who would betray Him, being one of the twelve.

NKJV

1 John 5:2-5

2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments.

3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world — our* faith.

5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

NKJV

Love, Steven