Health Reform

[AnotherSinner]

This is a sensitive topic, that I do understand. All I ask here is that this topic is kept as civil as possible.

Otherwise I am curious....where do you stand on the Obama Health Care Reform? Are you for it, or against it?

Why? If you can, please provide either or both scriptural or some form of support even if it means quoting part of Obama's Health Care Bill.

Would like to discuss this in depth, but again...civilly.

[SavedByGrace1980]

This is a sensitive topic, that I do understand. All I ask here is that this topic is kept as civil as possible.

Otherwise I am curious....where do you stand on the Obama Health Care Reform? Are you for it, or against it?

Why? If you can, please provide either or both scriptural or some form of support even if it means quoting part of Obama's Health Care Bill.

Would like to discuss this in depth, but again...civilly.

I am against Obamacare for several reasons, but one main one. It is un-Constitutional. Now before someone rightly points out that it has been declared Constitutional by two lower Federal courts; and at least 4 justices on the Supreme Court will likely declare it constitutional; let me explain:

My view of what or what is not Constitutional is considered "archaic" by most. Archaic it may be, but it's also simple. The Constitution was written to enumerate the powers of the Federal gov't - not as a power grab. The power for the Fedgov to create such an unwieldy monstrosity is simply not there.

Even though we as a nation have a pretext of being a Constitutional Republic, we haven't really been for quite some time - at least since the New Deal 30s. So now, we've come to a point where the Constitution means whatever a plurality of Supreme Court judges say it means.

Whooopeee! An ongoing Constitutional Convention!! Let's party!!

Seriously - I just wish people would be honest and declare that we are no longer under the Constitution. Remove the phrase ". . . to uphold and protect the Constitution" from all oaths of office - because it just makes liars and hypocrites of most who utter them.

So getting back to Obamacare - given my opinion that we don't live under the Constitution anyway, why should it matter whether or not it's constitutionally sound? Well I suppose it's just because it's another - perhaps final - nail in the coffin.

So there's other reasons also.

1. We can't afford it

2. It's a huge over-reach and power grab.

3. It's going to destroy the quality of health care.

4. We can't afford it

5 - 999. WE CAN'T AFFORD IT

(did I mention we can't afford it?)

Blessings!

-Ed

[ayin jade]

I am against the health care reform because it is not truly a reform. They passed it before they even knew what was in it. It will cause more harm than good, forcing those who can pay for their medical care to have a lower standard and they will be able to deny coverage based on cost considerations. We have similar programs already as medicare/ medicaid/ indian health/ va. There are many cost problems within it. Do you honestly expect a larger one to be better? It will not work for this country.

[AnotherSinner]

Like the two of you, I too am against it. Cost is a concern I have seeing as $600 or more dollars in fines will result if a person should fail to get some form of medical coverage.

It just also does not seem right to me to force everyone to get some kind of medical coverage when so many people today have problems with the manner in which the medical field today is practiced.

If someone is going to see another person about their overall well-being, it is someone that they should be able to trust with their health and well, if it comes to it life.

While things are promised, I really cannot see them being delivered.... when our men were supposed to go home, they ended up over seas longer. There are other promises too that have had similar result

which makes me try not to cringe when thinking of what may come from this reform.

Was more or less curious if anyone actually liked or supported it....and why?

At the time, there is no way outside of Medicaid that my husband and I could afford to pay for some form of health plan. We barely make enough to live on as is. This is with him working full time and me staying home and tending to the kids. While he is considering getting a part time job on the side to make it easier as he does not want me working....I do not see the point in some of us having to literally work ourselves to death just to make ends meat. Then that is beside the point...

[oldzimm]

This is a sensitive topic, that I do understand. All I ask here is that this topic is kept as civil as possible.

Otherwise I am curious....where do you stand on the Obama Health Care Reform? Are you for it, or against it?

Why? If you can, please provide either or both scriptural or some form of support even if it means quoting part of Obama's Health Care Bill.

Would like to discuss this in depth, but again...civilly.

Scriptural? Really it is not about Scripture, Obamacare is unconstitutional.

[other one]

there are parts of it I'm against, and parts of it that I believe are very good...... problem is that it's so large and comprehensive that none of us know it's content and therefore we really don't know if it's good for the country or not...... parts of it are unconstitutional from my perspective, but much of what the government does to day is.

Truth of the matter, we most likely don't know enough about it to really make a good decision

I would say this, I have researched the origional house bill hr3200 and if they made the Senate ok all the people on the commissions that are set up, it would be an extremely good bill. You may disagree with the government getting involved in Insurance, but the insurance business is one of the most regulated industries on the face of the planet..... right now it's the states that regulate them..... so basically the hr3200 just set up national guidelines not much different than the states already have.

That's what makes it unconstitutional..... it's over riding the authority of the states, and while that is needed in some instances, it's not a good thing accept lightly. That old give um' an inch thing comes to mind.

Right now it's extremely expensive to sell insurance across the whole country for the laws are different in each state. If we are going to pool large numbers of people together for cheaper rates, someone has to bring all these different laws into alignment..... that was one of the early objectives of the healthcare bills. Unfortunately it just grew and grew and ended up a beast that would take two months of constant reading to really understand the changes.

I spoke with the vice president of one of our hospitals last week and learned that they really still don't know all the effects that the changes will make.

So I would say that for those of us who are badmouthing the bill as a whole...... "Have you read it?" Do you really know what you're talking about.

Almost every negative thing I read about the hr3200 was not reality, but it took nearly three weeks studying 5 hours a day to get a good understanding of what it was doing. The Senate bill that actually passed in nearly twice that large.

[nChrist]

It's illegal and Unconstitutional to start with. It's a giant step toward socialism and the destruction of what's left of a free country - a vehicle for TYRANNY. It's not about healthcare - rather power and control over people. It's already been said that we can't afford this monstrosity, but what hasn't been said is that actual healthcare is going to be much worse than is now - but much more expensive. Bluntly, it's a giant, illegal, and Unconstitutional MESS that will break the bank quickly - FOR NOTHING. Yes - I've read it - but I have no interest in discussing it. In a free country, it should be a non-starter.

[AnotherSinner]

there are parts of it I'm against, and parts of it that I believe are very good...... problem is that it's so large and comprehensive that none of us know it's content and therefore we really don't know if it's good for the country or not...... parts of it are unconstitutional from my perspective, but much of what the government does to day is.

Truth of the matter, we most likely don't know enough about it to really make a good decision

I would say this, I have researched the origional house bill hr3200 and if they made the Senate ok all the people on the commissions that are set up, it would be an extremely good bill. You may disagree with the government getting involved in Insurance, but the insurance business is one of the most regulated industries on the face of the planet..... right now it's the states that regulate them..... so basically the hr3200 just set up national guidelines not much different than the states already have.

That's what makes it unconstitutional..... it's over riding the authority of the states, and while that is needed in some instances, it's not a good thing accept lightly. That old give um' an inch thing comes to mind.

Right now it's extremely expensive to sell insurance across the whole country for the laws are different in each state. If we are going to pool large numbers of people together for cheaper rates, someone has to bring all these different laws into alignment..... that was one of the early objectives of the healthcare bills. Unfortunately it just grew and grew and ended up a beast that would take two months of constant reading to really understand the changes.

I spoke with the vice president of one of our hospitals last week and learned that they really still don't know all the effects that the changes will make.

So I would say that for those of us who are badmouthing the bill as a whole...... "Have you read it?" Do you really know what you're talking about.

Almost every negative thing I read about the hr3200 was not reality, but it took nearly three weeks studying 5 hours a day to get a good understanding of what it was doing. The Senate bill that actually passed in nearly twice that large.

I have been reading various documentation in regards of this bill or reform and one thing that seems to remain the same is this:

If people do not get healthcare coverage, they are going to get fined if not jail time for it. That is something that I do not agree with. Treat people as criminals because they cannot affort medical coverage or may not feel comfortable getting such.

Some people are simply afraid of or try to take care of themselves as best they can so they do not land in a hospital. Some, do not believe in going to doctors much like some do not believe in having blood transfusions or being resusitated. So why

make everyone have healthcare that simply cannot be afforded, or that many really do not want to have to use?

Edited April 3, 2012 by AnotherSinner