Is Hell Forever?

[ayin jade]

This bothers me.... a lot!!

Even as a flawed, sometimes angry, individual, I would not throw my dog, my cat or my worst enemy into a lake of fire to cause them to suffer forever and ever. Maybe a little while, if they really do something terrible. But forever and ever? My heart is not so callous as to do that.

So what kind of a God would do something like that to a human being, his highest creation, a being made in his own image? To cast them away into torment without end, forever and ever? I don't even have words for that kind of cruelty.

To me, this is totally incompatible with a God of love. More likely, it is a human concept, developed thousands of years ago, as a way to scare others and keep them in line. "You better do right.... or else." Even the king needs to be afraid of something, if not in this lifetime, than the next.

Thing of the torment Jesus endured while being crucified. Yet even that, as brutal as it was, lasted only for a finite period of time. Can you imagine a person being tormented like that endlessly, forever and ever? Not me.

Mark I know its a hard thing to accept. Most Christians would also likely say this bugs them too. But God has said the wages of sin is death. We cant get around that but just wishing it was not so.

He is a God of love yes. But He is also a God of justice. He loves us enough that while we were sinners, condemned by our sins, He reached out to us and paid for us through the sacrificial work of Jesus.

You love your parent even when they are not fair and punish you for busting a window. We are to love God, even the things about Him we do not think are fair or agree with.

[Mark2005]

As Abraham once said in pleading for Sodom: "Will not the judge of all the earth do right?"

I fully expect God to be fair. I think his justice demands it. I suspect that God could not live with himself if he punished a person unjustly.

Somehow that justice gets tempered with mercy. The best way my mind can comprehend that is that the wicked are allowed to perish, to cease to exist. There are several places in Proverbs and Psalms that seem to affirm this as well. That would still satisfy the wages of sin as being death.

Edited May 9, 2012 by Mark2005

[ayin jade]

As Abraham once said in pleading for Sodom: "Will not the judge of all the earth do right?"

I fully expect God to be fair. I think his justice demands it. I suspect that God could not live with himself if he punished a person unjustly.

Somehow that justice gets tempered with mercy. The best way my mind can comprehend that is that the wicked are allowed to perish, to cease to exist. There are several places in Proverbs and Psalms that seem to affirm this as well. That would still satisfy the wages of sin as being death.

Yes He will be fair and just.

But our viewpoint of what is fair may not match His. He said sin = death. Look at what the first sin did. Given how much damage one sin did, do you think He would just give everyone a free pass into heaven even if they do not believe in Jesus?

God said without Jesus you die lost in your sins. There is no getting around that. God said the lost spend eternity in punishment. There is no getting around that either.

Its not pleasant mark. Sometimes the reality isnt pleasant. This is why Christians spend so much time trying to spread the gospel. We know what their eternity is and we dont want anyone there.

[Mark2005]

That's stretching it a bit. Are we to think Christians spread the gospel out of genuine concern for the fate of someone else? As opposed to their own agenda?

[ayin jade]

That's stretching it a bit. Are we to think Christians spread the gospel out of genuine concern for the fate of someone else? As opposed to their own agenda?

What agenda?

I spread the gospel out of concern for others. I spread the gospel because my Lord, whom I love, wants me to.

I do not have an agenda.

[Fez]

That's stretching it a bit. Are we to think Christians spread the gospel out of genuine concern for the fate of someone else? As opposed to their own agenda?

Yep you got it! At least I and most of the Christians I know do. Why? Because who would not want to spread good news!

Hell is forever, and why would anyone want to condemn themselves to that fate?

Remember you are saved or you are not.

It won't be, "I was not saved but a good person, perhaps I could just have my butt toasted for a while to correct me and then out of here?"......

[ayin jade]

That's stretching it a bit. Are we to think Christians spread the gospel out of genuine concern for the fate of someone else? As opposed to their own agenda?

Do you think that poorly of us Mark? Do you think so little of those you know here that you think we have a hidden agenda? Im actually a bit hurt that you think we have an agenda.

[Mark2005]

Not YOU personally.

The majority of Christians and leaders seem to delight in "damning those sinners". The hotter the flames, the better. Like it somehow justifies their position.

The majority of Christians seem to have the position "God tells us we have to go out and make disciples of everyone, even the people we don't really like. Besides, the more people we get on our side, the more power and wealth and influence we have." I think most religious people --- Christians as well as other religions --- evangelize for their own benefits, not out of genuine concern for the well-being of someone else.

I honestly cannot recall anyone ever saying "Mark, I love you and I want the best for you. And I believe Jesus will help you."

[ayin jade]

Not YOU personally.

The majority of Christians and leaders seem to delight in "damning those sinners". The hotter the flames, the better. Like it somehow justifies their position.

Certainly westboro baptist, whom I claim are not true Christians but a mere mockery of Christianity, certainly delight in that. Most that I know do not delight in damning sinners.

The Lord spoke to me on this. When 9/11 happened, I prayed. During my prayer, with the feelings I had of at least those rat terrorists are rotting in hell now, He told me specifically how tragic that is. How terrible it was that despite the horrors of what they did, that they are lost. He changed me during that prayer so that instead of condemning the muslim terrorists, instead of praying for islam to be destroyed, I should in fact be praying that they come to know Jesus and be saved.

God does not delight in the damnation of the wicked. Neither should I.

The majority of Christians seem to have the position "God tells us we have to go out and make disciples of everyone, even the people we don't really like. Besides, the more people we get on our side, the more power and wealth and influence we have." I think most religious people --- Christians as well as other religions --- evangelize for their own benefits, not out of genuine concern for the well-being of someone else.

The part I bolded puzzles me. I dont know of anyone who thinks that the more we get on our side, the more power and wealth and influence we have. I dont know what group of Christians you have encountered like that, but wow, I cant even imagine that in a Christian. The only power we have is from the Lord. The only influence that means anything is His. I also dont think anyone evangelizes for their own benefits.

I honestly cannot recall anyone ever saying "Mark, I love you and I want the best for you. And I believe Jesus will help you."

Ok Mark, then I certainly will say it. Because I do care. Because I do want the best for you. Even if you never get to know the Lord, I do hope your life here works out well for you. I believe Jesus can help you in greater ways than you can possibly guess at. And I do love you in a sisterly/friendly way. And that last is hard for a stuffy puritan/ introverted doesnt show emotions norwegian to say lol.

[OneLight]

That's stretching it a bit. Are we to think Christians spread the gospel out of genuine concern for the fate of someone else? As opposed to their own agenda?

What personal agenda would that be Mark? Are we not to love our neighbors as ourselves? Would we want to allow ourselves eternal damnation? It is out of love that we declare the good news of salvation.