Euthanasia is wrong!

[ColleenLovesMischief]

here's something to ponder....

when an animal is suffering and there is no cure, euthenasia is encouraged. but when a human is suffering and there is no cure, euthenasia is a criminal act.

we can all sit here an judge euthenasia to be wrong or not wrong, but there is no scripture, IMO, that indicates that medical assistance to end one's suffering in that way is any more "wrong" than using any other medical intervention. i know that my father suffered for three years before he finally died. i don't know why God allowed him to continue living, if you could call that living. but He did allow it, and i won't question why. but....

if someone gets cancer and, for whatever reason, does not get chemotherapy or whatever other treatments are available, God allows them to suffer.

if someone gets heart disease and needs a transplant but doesn't get it, God allows them to suffer.

if someone gets shot and a doctor doesn't take the bullet out, God allows that person to suffer.

perhaps the reason God allows a terminally ill patient to suffer is because those whom HE has given the authority to end their suffering haven't been permitted by law to do so.

i'm a wuss. i hope when i die it's quick and painless. and if it can't be quick and painless, then i sure hope laws have been passed by that time to allow me to die with dignity at a time of my choosing. don't think i wouldn't consult God about it, i most certainly would. but frankly, i can't imagine my loving heavenly Father telling me "tough beans, you have to suffer a few more years."

go ahead, stone me. i'm sure there is at least ONE person here who will agree with me, even if they won't admit it.

I'll admit it. I do agree with you. I see no problem with suicide and assisted suicide myself. I have my reasons (many I am living right at this moment).

[Guest Butero]

here's something to ponder....

when an animal is suffering and there is no cure, euthenasia is encouraged. but when a human is suffering and there is no cure, euthenasia is a criminal act.

we can all sit here an judge euthenasia to be wrong or not wrong, but there is no scripture, IMO, that indicates that medical assistance to end one's suffering in that way is any more "wrong" than using any other medical intervention. i know that my father suffered for three years before he finally died. i don't know why God allowed him to continue living, if you could call that living. but He did allow it, and i won't question why. but....

if someone gets cancer and, for whatever reason, does not get chemotherapy or whatever other treatments are available, God allows them to suffer.

if someone gets heart disease and needs a transplant but doesn't get it, God allows them to suffer.

if someone gets shot and a doctor doesn't take the bullet out, God allows that person to suffer.

perhaps the reason God allows a terminally ill patient to suffer is because those whom HE has given the authority to end their suffering haven't been permitted by law to do so.

i'm a wuss. i hope when i die it's quick and painless. and if it can't be quick and painless, then i sure hope laws have been passed by that time to allow me to die with dignity at a time of my choosing. don't think i wouldn't consult God about it, i most certainly would. but frankly, i can't imagine my loving heavenly Father telling me "tough beans, you have to suffer a few more years."

go ahead, stone me. i'm sure there is at least ONE person here who will agree with me, even if they won't admit it.

I'll admit it. I do agree with you. I see no problem with suicide and assisted suicide myself. I have my reasons (many I am living right at this moment).

How do you get past the fact that God commands us not to commit murder? Suicide is murder of self, and I believe it is a one way ticket to hell. It is not that God can't forgive you for murder, but there is no opportunity for true repentance, when it is your final act. I don't believe in the OSAS doctrine, so I don't see any chance of redemption for someone who commits a wilful sin like that, and can't confess it.

[AnotherSinner]

So you wish to be thought of as just another animal then? Well, alot of people think we are just animals, but a Christian certainly knows better.

Can this please stop? This sort of talk causes so much anger as well as resentment. Why is it when there is a disagreement in terms of issues be they biblical or otherwise the first words that are uttered is that one is or is not a Christian....

Gentle words turn away anger....harsh ones stir it up and cause it to well up inside another.

Is there no way this matter can be discussed civilly?

Of course you are right AnotherSinner, but this kind of topic stirs up strong feelings, and I feel confident that Sevenseas didn't realize how this was coming across? We all find ourselves doing this kind of thing at times. I have been trying hard to work on avoiding that kind of speech, but we are only human, and emotions get in the way. You can't believe what you just read, and you speak from the heart. You don't think about how the other person will take it. That is why threads get nasty and wind up being closed. Most of the time, the person doesn't even realize they did anything wrong?

I agree Butero...it is a lot like politics....stirs up feelings and words come pouring out.

Cannot say that there has been no guilt on my behalf on this. Have done it too. Just would not like to see division among us here at worthy.

[Guest LadyC]

by the way, just to clarify my position, i'm not at all in favor of anyone making the decision for a patient. but i am in favor of a person being able to make their own decision about assisted suicide if they are terminally ill and are suffering.

[ColleenLovesMischief]

here's something to ponder....

when an animal is suffering and there is no cure, euthenasia is encouraged. but when a human is suffering and there is no cure, euthenasia is a criminal act.

we can all sit here an judge euthenasia to be wrong or not wrong, but there is no scripture, IMO, that indicates that medical assistance to end one's suffering in that way is any more "wrong" than using any other medical intervention. i know that my father suffered for three years before he finally died. i don't know why God allowed him to continue living, if you could call that living. but He did allow it, and i won't question why. but....

if someone gets cancer and, for whatever reason, does not get chemotherapy or whatever other treatments are available, God allows them to suffer.

if someone gets heart disease and needs a transplant but doesn't get it, God allows them to suffer.

if someone gets shot and a doctor doesn't take the bullet out, God allows that person to suffer.

perhaps the reason God allows a terminally ill patient to suffer is because those whom HE has given the authority to end their suffering haven't been permitted by law to do so.

i'm a wuss. i hope when i die it's quick and painless. and if it can't be quick and painless, then i sure hope laws have been passed by that time to allow me to die with dignity at a time of my choosing. don't think i wouldn't consult God about it, i most certainly would. but frankly, i can't imagine my loving heavenly Father telling me "tough beans, you have to suffer a few more years."

go ahead, stone me. i'm sure there is at least ONE person here who will agree with me, even if they won't admit it.

I'll admit it. I do agree with you. I see no problem with suicide and assisted suicide myself. I have my reasons (many I am living right at this moment).

How do you get past the fact that God commands us not to commit murder? Suicide is murder of self, and I believe it is a one way ticket to hell. It is not that God can't forgive you for murder, but there is no opportunity for true repentance, when it is your final act. I don't believe in the OSAS doctrine, so I don't see any chance of redemption for someone who commits a wilful sin like that, and can't confess it.

I don't believe in OSAS either. I believe murder means murder...taking another persons life without permission. I believe the Bible does not address suicide. In fact the only thing I see is murder. I also see a difference between killing and murder (how do you justify war under this belief?). No one has ever been able to present me with a situation biblically dealing with suicide, and hell, and they won't because it is not addressed. There is a difference between euthanasia and suicide as well. One is killing the another person, and one is killing your self. Another thought...You shall not murder....well you shall not murder what? Other humans (obviously)...why not the animals as well? Did He include the animals (sport hunting, killing for fun). Where are the actual lines drawn? It is left very shaded. If I were to decide to take my own life to save my children the pain of dealing with me (and it could hit the point within the next year that I may not be able to care for myself anymore), I do not believe that My Lord would scold me for it...and if He would so be it! I am willing to accept whatever may come my way. But I do not feel that it is clearly defined. No one has been able to show me where those lines define...everyone seems to believe just a little differently about murder and suicide.

Let me ask you a good one since I deal with it in my life...if someone with multiple personalities was to have an alt personality take over (not the core person), and that personality decides to kill the body, do you hold the person who was not in control responsible? How is that to be handled biblicaly?

(and yes that IS a serious question that floods my mind daily)

[ColleenLovesMischief]

by the way, just to clarify my position, i'm not at all in favor of anyone making the decision for a patient. but i am in favor of a person being able to make their own decision about assisted suicide if they are terminally ill and are suffering.

Agreed actually. Wow...someone in Worthy thinks like me on this issue?

The Terry Schivo thing happened not long before my first husband died. I almost had a few of those decisions on Donnie, and I did NOT want them. (he did not want to ever go on dialysis, and the hospital was trying to make me decide it with his Mother wanting it done) Somewhere I never want to be again.

[Guest LadyC]

colleen, i gotta wonder... of the people here who is passing judgment on you or me for our opinion, i wonder how many of them have advanced directives, aka living wills, that prevent the doctors from putting them on life support if they're ever in such a condition. i think many people just don't recongize (or don't want to acknowledge) that refusing life support is the exact same thing. or for families who have to make the decision to "pull the plug", to take a family member off life support... that is also the same thing.

i would hate to think anyone here could display such hypocrisy as to comfort a person who has just made such a decision while openly condemning you and i for believing that assisted suicide for terminally ill patients should be legal.

especially since God is SILENT on the issue.

[Guest Butero]

here's something to ponder....

when an animal is suffering and there is no cure, euthenasia is encouraged. but when a human is suffering and there is no cure, euthenasia is a criminal act.

we can all sit here an judge euthenasia to be wrong or not wrong, but there is no scripture, IMO, that indicates that medical assistance to end one's suffering in that way is any more "wrong" than using any other medical intervention. i know that my father suffered for three years before he finally died. i don't know why God allowed him to continue living, if you could call that living. but He did allow it, and i won't question why. but....

if someone gets cancer and, for whatever reason, does not get chemotherapy or whatever other treatments are available, God allows them to suffer.

if someone gets heart disease and needs a transplant but doesn't get it, God allows them to suffer.

if someone gets shot and a doctor doesn't take the bullet out, God allows that person to suffer.

perhaps the reason God allows a terminally ill patient to suffer is because those whom HE has given the authority to end their suffering haven't been permitted by law to do so.

i'm a wuss. i hope when i die it's quick and painless. and if it can't be quick and painless, then i sure hope laws have been passed by that time to allow me to die with dignity at a time of my choosing. don't think i wouldn't consult God about it, i most certainly would. but frankly, i can't imagine my loving heavenly Father telling me "tough beans, you have to suffer a few more years."

go ahead, stone me. i'm sure there is at least ONE person here who will agree with me, even if they won't admit it.

I'll admit it. I do agree with you. I see no problem with suicide and assisted suicide myself. I have my reasons (many I am living right at this moment).

How do you get past the fact that God commands us not to commit murder? Suicide is murder of self, and I believe it is a one way ticket to hell. It is not that God can't forgive you for murder, but there is no opportunity for true repentance, when it is your final act. I don't believe in the OSAS doctrine, so I don't see any chance of redemption for someone who commits a wilful sin like that, and can't confess it.

I don't believe in OSAS either. I believe murder means murder...taking another persons life without permission. I believe the Bible does not address suicide. In fact the only thing I see is murder. I also see a difference between killing and murder (how do you justify war under this belief?). No one has ever been able to present me with a situation biblically dealing with suicide, and hell, and they won't because it is not addressed. There is a difference between euthanasia and suicide as well. One is killing the another person, and one is killing your self. Another thought...You shall not murder....well you shall not murder what? Other humans (obviously)...why not the animals as well? Did He include the animals (sport hunting, killing for fun). Where are the actual lines drawn? It is left very shaded. If I were to decide to take my own life to save my children the pain of dealing with me (and it could hit the point within the next year that I may not be able to care for myself anymore), I do not believe that My Lord would scold me for it...and if He would so be it! I am willing to accept whatever may come my way. But I do not feel that it is clearly defined. No one has been able to show me where those lines define...everyone seems to believe just a little differently about murder and suicide.

Let me ask you a good one since I deal with it in my life...if someone with multiple personalities was to have an alt personality take over (not the core person), and that personality decides to kill the body, do you hold the person who was not in control responsible? How is that to be handled biblicaly?

(and yes that IS a serious question that floods my mind daily)

I already answered the issue of war. We know God wasn't speaking of fighting in battle when he commanded us not to kill because he ordered people into battles. We also know he wasn't speaking of capital punishment, because he instituted it. To me, murder means to decide to kill an innocent person. That can be another person, or myself. Either way, it is still murder. God gave us dominion over animals, and even gave us permission to use them for meat. He didn't do that with people. I don't believe in killing anything simply for sport. I don't think that is being a good stewart over the things God entrusted us with.

I want you to think long and hard about what you said about accepting the consequences that may come your way? What if those consequences are eternity in hell? Even if it is not, what if it is loss of all your rewards or authority in God's Kingdom? Would you really forfeit that to end temporal suffering down here? I wouldn't, but that is a personal decision.

I actually think your multiple personality question was a good one, but it isn't that difficult to answer. A person that has multiple personalities is using them to cope with an unbearable situation. It is really the same person, but the mind splits into differen't people to deal with something. Since it is still the same person, regardless of whether or not they are one personality or a dozen, they will still be held responsible for their actions.

By the way, I don't have a living will, and have given instructions to use any medical means available if I become sick or disabled. There is no hypocrisy with me on this issue. I don't believe in any of that stuff, death with dignity, living wills, or assisted suicide. In addition to that, I have warned my wife and my parents that if they are ever in that situation, and they have no living will, I will instruct the doctors to do anything possible to save them. I stood up for Terri Schiavo the entire time that fight was taking place, writing to politicians and anyone in a position to help.

[ColleenLovesMischief]

here's something to ponder....

when an animal is suffering and there is no cure, euthenasia is encouraged. but when a human is suffering and there is no cure, euthenasia is a criminal act.

we can all sit here an judge euthenasia to be wrong or not wrong, but there is no scripture, IMO, that indicates that medical assistance to end one's suffering in that way is any more "wrong" than using any other medical intervention. i know that my father suffered for three years before he finally died. i don't know why God allowed him to continue living, if you could call that living. but He did allow it, and i won't question why. but....

if someone gets cancer and, for whatever reason, does not get chemotherapy or whatever other treatments are available, God allows them to suffer.

if someone gets heart disease and needs a transplant but doesn't get it, God allows them to suffer.

if someone gets shot and a doctor doesn't take the bullet out, God allows that person to suffer.

perhaps the reason God allows a terminally ill patient to suffer is because those whom HE has given the authority to end their suffering haven't been permitted by law to do so.

i'm a wuss. i hope when i die it's quick and painless. and if it can't be quick and painless, then i sure hope laws have been passed by that time to allow me to die with dignity at a time of my choosing. don't think i wouldn't consult God about it, i most certainly would. but frankly, i can't imagine my loving heavenly Father telling me "tough beans, you have to suffer a few more years."

go ahead, stone me. i'm sure there is at least ONE person here who will agree with me, even if they won't admit it.

I'll admit it. I do agree with you. I see no problem with suicide and assisted suicide myself. I have my reasons (many I am living right at this moment).

How do you get past the fact that God commands us not to commit murder? Suicide is murder of self, and I believe it is a one way ticket to hell. It is not that God can't forgive you for murder, but there is no opportunity for true repentance, when it is your final act. I don't believe in the OSAS doctrine, so I don't see any chance of redemption for someone who commits a wilful sin like that, and can't confess it.

I don't believe in OSAS either. I believe murder means murder...taking another persons life without permission. I believe the Bible does not address suicide. In fact the only thing I see is murder. I also see a difference between killing and murder (how do you justify war under this belief?). No one has ever been able to present me with a situation biblically dealing with suicide, and hell, and they won't because it is not addressed. There is a difference between euthanasia and suicide as well. One is killing the another person, and one is killing your self. Another thought...You shall not murder....well you shall not murder what? Other humans (obviously)...why not the animals as well? Did He include the animals (sport hunting, killing for fun). Where are the actual lines drawn? It is left very shaded. If I were to decide to take my own life to save my children the pain of dealing with me (and it could hit the point within the next year that I may not be able to care for myself anymore), I do not believe that My Lord would scold me for it...and if He would so be it! I am willing to accept whatever may come my way. But I do not feel that it is clearly defined. No one has been able to show me where those lines define...everyone seems to believe just a little differently about murder and suicide.

Let me ask you a good one since I deal with it in my life...if someone with multiple personalities was to have an alt personality take over (not the core person), and that personality decides to kill the body, do you hold the person who was not in control responsible? How is that to be handled biblicaly?

(and yes that IS a serious question that floods my mind daily)

I already answered the issue of war. We know God wasn't speaking of fighting in battle when he commanded us not to kill because he ordered people into battles. We also know he wasn't speaking of capital punishment, because he instituted it. To me, murder means to decide to kill an innocent person. That can be another person, or myself. Either way, it is still murder. God gave us dominion over animals, and even gave us permission to use them for meat. He didn't do that with people. I don't believe in killing anything simply for sport. I don't think that is being a good stewart over the things God entrusted us with.

I want you to think long and hard about what you said about accepting the consequences that may come your way? What if those consequences are eternity in hell? Even if it is not, what if it is loss of all your rewards or authority in God's Kingdom? Would you really forfeit that to end temporal suffering down here? I wouldn't, but that is a personal decision.

I actually think your multiple personality question was a good one, but it isn't that difficult to answer. A person that has multiple personalities is using them to cope with an unbearable situation. It is really the same person, but the mind splits into differen't people to deal with something. Since it is still the same person, regardless of whether or not they are one personality or a dozen, they will still be held responsible for their actions.

By the way, I don't have a living will, and have given instructions to use any medical means available if I become sick or disabled. There is no hypocrisy with me on this issue. I don't believe in any of that stuff, death with dignity, living wills, or assisted suicide.

Herein lies my situation....and you are only getting a piece of it. I have 3 kids living....one a grandmother and I are fighting over, and 2 living with me. I am ill. Have been for over a year now. Losing my ability to care for my kids. I have no family to care for me. I was disowned in February when I was too sick to make it to Ohio to attend my Mothers funeral. If I didn't have the friends I do I would have been dead last year, and no one would have known. My 14 yr old thought I was gone. I don't find it right to put my care on my 14 yr old and 4 yr old. Specially when I am told there is nothing wrong with me. I have lost more than 100 lbs in a year without trying...actually trying to prevent it. I have had times I didn't know who or where I was (so now a friend stays here full time to keep an eye on me). I get to kinda live....I spend most of my sick time on my bed...like I am now. I have been down for the past 5 weeks this time. When I feel semi okay you can't slow me down. I am very self sufficient (I was raised to care for myself, and shamed when I couldn't). I cannot handle the insanity when I lose coherency. I can see what is going on even though I understand very little of it. I can't communicate during those times, and the medical profession can find nothing wrong with me. Yeah I would save my kids that grief no matter what. I've been widowed, lost both parents, and all grandparents, and had a stillborn all in the last 5.5 yrs. Do you actually think I am sane at this point? In this next year I could lose all ability to care for myself...and you know what I will get? Left in my house to die alone. That is exactly what I have to look forward to is the State taking my kids away when I can no longer care for them, and to die alone and confused (if my money holds out long enough that I don't become homeless while it is happening). If someone happens to find me I might be thrown in an institution somewhere. If I am "lucky". (If anyone wonders where I have been hiding, and why I haven't really been in chat this past year there it is).

[jasoncran]

ok so what if they have these?

dementia. parkinsons and alziehiemers. to NOT to actively kill them will mean they die from organ failure as with my grandpa on my moms side who died in the fetal position. if that isnt painful then what is?

so then the doctor must then murder these. no if and or buts. a do not resusitate isnt euthanisa that is when the doctors know that patient is terminal and has chosen to die and not be revived as their life is already short both me and my wife have on in our living will.