Worry and trusting God to provide?

[saved34]

I agree with your post above Carlos. I have been watching the emergence of the home Church movement, and they operate similarly to what you are expressing. If one member has a need, they all come together and meet the need of that member. They say it cuts down on a lot of their reliance on "worldly" means to handle things. Again, I personally believe when it comes to finances or anything it is all about where one's heart is. Even in giving God even acknowledges the desire in the person. What a great God we serve! You may not have a large gift to give, but if your heart is truly in that direction, he see's it and honors it. If I truly only have $5 to give, and it is from my heart, God honors this just as much as the man or woman who "tithes" $500 every week.

2Co 8:11 But now finish doing it also, so that just as there was the readiness to desire it, so there may be also the completion of it by your ability.

2Co 8:12 For if the readiness is present, it is acceptable according to what a person has, not according to what he does not have.

I also believe God calls some of us to different things. God has his rich man who support missions, and ministries world wide. He has men like Joseph of Arimathea who could supply a "tomb' for the body of our Lord. A guy like me who would most likely go absolutely bananas if I had large sums of money, he keeps me in a position to lean and rely on him, my faith has grown through the various financial, and personal trials I have been through. He keeps my heart free from Idolatry in that sense, my brother has tons of cash lol, yet money means absolutely nothing to him. It is not a temptation to him, he shares it freely. I think in this discussion it may be hard to pinpoint a definitive way to handle things for all people. It more than likely depend on where our individual hearts are in relation to these things.

I also fully understand where you are coming from when you say people shouldn't rely on saving for the future. I agree, though not in the strict mechanical sense. If a man is sensibly saving up for himself and his family, not doing so at the expense of trusting God, but honoring God, and thanking him for allowing him to make a living, then I see nothing wrong with that. If his heart is attuned to God, he would reach right into those savings and bless his Church, or his brother in Christ, and not hold back or hoard that money when he see's need. It is such a blessing that our God looks at the intent and heart of man. I'm loving this because these are questions I believe we all have as we walk with our God.

[carlos123]

I agree with your post above Carlos.

And I in turn agree with yours Saved.

How do you like that? LOL

Although I would say, that like you I do not think it sinful or ungodly for a person to have a savings account but, that having a savings account would in my opinion not last long if one's heart was committed to using excess money above meeting immediate or near future needs to meet needs in others lives. I mean that savings account would constantly be in a state of being drained if one was really willing to do that.

Let me if I may share a couple of things that happened to me yesterday to illustrate some of what I have been sharing. I hesitate to share these things out of my life because some folks on this forum and others are so incredibly prone to fly off the handle with condemning judgments of me. Assuming the worst motives on my part. In this particular thing that I am about to share some might assume that I am sharing these things to try and get money for my needs which assumption would be nothing but baloney.

I share what I share because the Lord might gain some benefit in my sharing with respect to highlighting and making practical what I have been talking about (or some of it at least) or where He might use examples out of my own life to encourage others to believe Him for provision as I must presently do virtually every day.

My finances are such that I am in need at present of going out collecting bottles and cans and turning them in for their recyling value. Usually about 5 cents per can or bottle. This is a very rare thing for me to have to do but sometimes I have to do it. With that in mind I had stashed a special pincer pick up tool in the bushes (I am homeless and sleep in a tent so I store things in the bushes sometimes...though I keep most things in gym lockers that I rent) not thinking I would ever need it again but given that it was of some value and still good I had hidden it away.

Well...yesterday night I went to where I had hidden it and could not find it!

Oh...oh.

The means I had been looking to to make up for a shortfall in income had disappeared! I am going to go back and look again in a bit during daylight hours but it is likely that someone had spied the black plastic bag that it was in and has taken my tool.

But trusting in God as my provision I went on last night toward my tent without hardly being concerned at all (though I was to be sure a tad perturbed for a few minutes).

When I got to my camping site someone had broken off a reasonable large branch on the trail into my tent site.

Oh...oh.

I began to envision my tent being stolen or ransacked and started going down the the path to my tent wondering what I was going to do for a place to sleep in safety from the rats, rattlesnakes, spiders of all kinds, slugs, mosquitoes, and so forth that keep me company during the night in the manner of a man running around full of anxiety.

But...I stopped myself and chose instead to trust in God no matter whether my tent (i.e. home where I sleep) was still there or not. Confident that the Lord would provide for me somehow even if my tent was out and out stolen.

When I got to my tent it was still there just as I left it.

And I slept just fine.

This morning I woke up and had to again trust the Lord for my tent as I left it. Committing it into His hands like I do every day that I am there. Surrendering it to Him in that I want His will to be done above my own desire that it would still be there for me when I return every night. In other words God may divinely work it out that it would get stolen or He might graciously allow it to continue to be unobserved and undetected by other homeless or passerby's.

Later this morning I had a decision to make. Go to a wonderful and I mean wonderful meal provided by a church at the park or focus rather on getting on my computer and otherwise continue trying to find work and either finding my canning stick through a more thorough search in daylight or use some of my remaining money to buy another one.

I chose to focus on work related things and so I missed the meal. I chose to trust God to provide for me and did something in line with my trust by focusing on finding work.

As a homeless dude who has no certain source of income as in a weekly paycheck type of thing I must trust God a LOT to provide for me. Many times one day at a time.

For those of you that do not know, I do web development to make money but any work I get as such is not consistent. Sometimes I feast and sometimes I come close to starving (figuratively speaking).

The hardest thing for me in all this is trusting God for FUTURE provision, sight unseen. That is where the fight of faith comes in for me.

It is NOT present needs that concern me since in truth ALL my present needs are met. I have a gym membership. I have an unlimited bus pass. I have food galore to eat. I have shoes (though they do need replacing I can still use them at this time). I have clothing the likes of which no one would be able to guess that I am homeless unless I tell them. I have a laptop. Unlimited internet access any time I want it through the university I frequent and of which I am considered a student through a special program they have for people over 50. On and on it goes. I even get FREE dental care as a homeless person! It's not the most convenient in that I usually have to wait quite a number of hours but it doesn't cost me a penny and the main dentist I have seen is exceptional!

Now I can hear it now. A crescendo of accusations and condemnation coming my way. Perhaps from some of you. You can work harder! Yup...I can and I have sometimes failed to do so. My fault. Completely. No excuse. You shouldn't be getting free dental care as the public ultimately pays for that! Yup...perhaps I could have worked harder and saved up enough to go and pay for my own dental care across the border in Mexico but I didn't and here I am in need of dental care. Would you have me let my teeth fall out?

I am remind of how the Pharasees often tended to point accusatory fingers.

But ultimately...the fact of the matter is that God HAS provided for me without my having to resort to panhandling or anything of the sort. In one way or another and for as many times as I have been down to the wire financially God has ALWAYS opened a way for me.

That is His mercy if nothing else since in truth I do not deserve to be provided for as faithfully as He has provided for me.

But my point in sharing all this is to highlight through my experiences how we ALL ought to be trusting God to provide for us.

That is NOT to say that we ALL should live in a tent and be homeless as I am. That would be downrigth silly.

But just as I must trust God and not let worry and concern get the best of me and act on that trust to do what I can in a spirit of dependence on Him to open a way for my needs to be met so must we ALL trust Him.

Just as I must keep Him in mind and not focus on the loss of a means by which I assumed that God would provide for me such as my pick up tool so must we ALL.

Our TRUST, whether we are relatively well off or dirt poor MUST be in God to provide for us.

That trust is tested and revealed to be less than what it should be by any threat to means that our hearts may have come to depend on other than God.

We can say we trust God to provide for us and really think we are but when our means come under risk what our hearts are REALLY trusting in is revealed by how we react to the potential loss of our means. If we are truly trusting in God no sweat! He is the source. He will provide for us through one means or another.

Another thing. Just as I have had to walk daily in surrender to His will regarding my tent where I sleep, where it may not be there on any given night such that I lose my protection from all the creepy crawly things, so too we ALL must walk in absolute surrender to His ultimate will. Where our homes and cars and jobs and whatever else we have may get lost even overnight. Are we prepared for that by faith? Are we willing to put it all on the chopping block of His will?

If we are not we ought to repent and surrender it all to Him.

May I say that a lack of surrender will keep us from trusting Him for our provision. For how can anyone have any confidence at all that God will provide if they are walking in self will and selfishness to pursue their own and not God's will in their life?

He also does not promise to provide for us in the way we want provision but only in the way we need it. We may not need that nice fancy house, or car, or whatever. Remember what it says. With food and clothing we ought to be content. Anything more than that is coveting more than what God promises to provide.

Our lives are His to do with as He might will to do with them. At least that is what trusting in Him by faith is all about. Surrendering to Him as God and trusting Him as God. I mean truly trusting Him.

What would happen Saved if for some reason you lost your health insurance? I know that may not seem likely but it could happen. Would your trust still be in God or would you react to that with frustration, anger, depression, or otherwise revealing less than a true trust in God in your heart regarding the provision for your medical needs to be met?

Most Christians of today with all their material things, savings account, and the like are hardly ever tested that way. I think they should be if you ask me for then those with true faith in God would rise to the top while those without it would either sink into depression or otherwise or make a choice to believe as they should. Perhaps Christians in North America will indeed be tested in that way in the near future. I personally believe that God will judge this country big time and that a complete financial collapse may be around the corner though of course I hope it isn't. What are the Christians to do IF that happens? Are we going to run around full of worry and anxiety and grumbling? Or we going to rise up with surrendered hearts to trust God by faith to provide for us respecting our food and clothing with a committment to love one another as we do ourselves? Hopefully the latter.

Jesus seems to have told those wanting to follow Him as disciples to literally sell all and leave their lives behind to follow Him. That may or may not be entirely applicable to us today in the sense that He asked His disciples to that but whether it is entirely applicable as a literal thing we are to do or not there is absolutely something to be learned in what He told them to do. That our trust MUST be in God! That we are to as readily use up and give what we have for the sake of others and the Kingdom of God as they were to give it all up from the get go.

I do not believe that most professing believers of today (I say professing because there seem to be so many false Christians around these days) are willing to surrender to Him that way and that as such they don't even have faith in Him at all.

Carlos

[AnotherSinner]

.....Worry and Trusting God To Provide......

When a response was originally offered to this thread there were not as many burdens upon the shoulders of my husband and I.

As of late it has become exceedingly difficult for faith to be had in God's provision. While I know He will always watch over us and

has never failed to provide for my husband, children, and I in times of need....really cannot help but feel overwhelmed at present.

My present job is about to be terminated. My husband is just...barely making enough for us to live off of with government

assistance. Him and I both are actively seeking employment.....

There are some immediate future needs too that are weighing heavily on us in this search for steady better paying jobs. Those

being:

Car Troubles

Getting Our Oldest Son Set For Visits To See Specialists

Getting Youngest Shots

.....All before the school year starts this fall.

That is not a long time away....and right now...just seems unrealistic as we are barely making it as is....

How do some of you find unwavering faith when faced with such obligations?

Are we lazy because we cannot ever seem to get above the bar of need?....Just hard not to feel like a worthless worm.

Just Another Sinner Seeking the Way

Dani

[carlos123]

Dani,

I have been there and have done that as the common saying goes. So there is hope!

The fight for you as it has always been for me will be to keep your eyes on God and His faithfulness. Satan and your flesh will rise up to have the eyes of your heart focus rather on the problems and and needs that may remain unmet in the future.

You must make a choice Dani. To focus your eyes continually back on God by reading His Word and trusting what it says. No matter what.

That is the first and foremost thing Dani above all else.

I have been in situations where I had less than one dollar to my name! Literally.

One time I was in a situation where I literally had my bags packed to start being homeless. A friend was coming to pick up my bags to store them at his place and to then drop me off on the streets from what I remember (it's been a while). As I was literally walking out the door to meet him and put my bags in his car my friend revealed to me that his girlfriend, whom I had never met and had never had any dealings with at all, wanted to pay my rent! The rent got paid and I stayed.

God sometimes provides at the very last, I mean the very last minute Dani. So don't give up hope even if you are heading out the door to become homeless so to speak!

It is a shame to me and to God that people who call themselves Christians do not come in like a tsunami to help you out. That is what the New Testament Christians would have done!

So that ties into another thing I would suggest Dani. Let God help you through the Body! Open up to your church pastor and or church friends about what you are struggling with. There is no shame in it.

Even IF you have been less than perfect (or your husband has been) in looking for work or whatever God is a God of MERCY!

The essence of the Gospel is that NONE of us deserves a thing from God.

That also goes for our provision. NONE of us is so perfect in righteousness that we do not need to trust in God through His mercy to help us out when we are in need. NONE of us ought to be trusting in ourselves or in our possessions to get our needs met.

Trust in Him!

Look to Him!

Open up about your situation to the Body around you! That is Him in the Body.

And He is as likely to reach out to you to help you in your need through a properly working Body as He might be to help you directly when, sad to say, Bodies are not walking in line with how they should be toward members of the Body who are in need.

Don't expect help. Keep your eyes on God to help you. But at the same time don't hide your need from the Body.

Spend time with the Lord in prayer Dani. Pour out your heart to Him. And keep spending as much time as you need till you are able to walk in peace regarding His provision.

It is a fight of faith to believe Dani. It will not be easy but it is possible.

Remember that your brethren throughout the world, including me and others who are far worse off in other countries than either you or I are rising above their circumstances to set aside anxiety, worry, and whatever to trust in God by faith.

Keep on hanging on to Him Dani and you will be alright.

Do what is right by Him no matter what.

Carlos

[carlos123]

.....Worry and Trusting God To Provide......

One other thing that comes to mind Dani.

Make a list of every single thing that concerns you regarding your needs.

Perhaps you could use a blank sheet of paper and write out each thing at the top of it.

Then take it before the Lord. One paper at a time.

Describe the need in your own words to the Lord. Then ask Him for guidance as to what you should do about that need. Whether it is a true need or just a want. Whether or not He might have you set it aside. Ask Him to show you anything and everything He might want to show you about that need.

And then...

Shut your mouth and wait. Wait on Him to speak to you through the Word or your spirit. Just wait. Sit quietly and wait.

Just sit there in the presence of the Lord waiting on whatever He might want to say.

If some impression comes into your mind jot it down on that paper. Wait some more. Jot down whatever comes to you. Whether verse or thought or whatever.

Then pray over what has been laid on your heart. Read any verses given to you. Ask the Lord to open your heart to understand.

If you get nothing right away...then continue with another of your papers.

That might help Dani. He does want to say something to you. It's just a matter of making yourself available to hear.

Carlos

[gdemoss]

.....Worry and Trusting God To Provide......

When a response was originally offered to this thread there were not as many burdens upon the shoulders of my husband and I.

As of late it has become exceedingly difficult for faith to be had in God's provision. While I know He will always watch over us and

has never failed to provide for my husband, children, and I in times of need....really cannot help but feel overwhelmed at present.

My present job is about to be terminated. My husband is just...barely making enough for us to live off of with government

assistance. Him and I both are actively seeking employment.....

There are some immediate future needs too that are weighing heavily on us in this search for steady better paying jobs. Those

being:

Car Troubles

Getting Our Oldest Son Set For Visits To See Specialists

Getting Youngest Shots

.....All before the school year starts this fall.

That is not a long time away....and right now...just seems unrealistic as we are barely making it as is....

How do some of you find unwavering faith when faced with such obligations?

Are we lazy because we cannot ever seem to get above the bar of need?....Just hard not to feel like a worthless worm.

Just Another Sinner Seeking the Way

Dani

Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Does this say that God will give you the strength and power along with a job to do it all yourself?

Does it specifically mention how these things will be done?

Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

What does it look like to lean unto our own understanding? Are you doing that? Do you have some presupposed ideas about how things have to happen? Are you acknowledging him in all your ways?

Pro 16:9 A mans heart deviseth his way but the LORD directeth his steps.

All you need worry about is having a heart that is right toward God and he does the rest. If your full of pride then your not acknowledging God in all your ways. If you humbly accept any and all help that the Lord sends your way for those things that are actually needed then you are doing well. If you reject the help of others that God has sent to fulfill your needs you not only reject them but the God who sent them to help. If God is not allowing you to get things done by your own hand, I suspect that he is tearing down your pride and humbling you before him. I suggest surrendering to his ways of doing things and allowing him to provide.

When Elijah was by the brook Kedron God sent birds to feed him. He also sent an angel to bake him a cake or two. Elijah didn't go out and get a job but instead continued seeking after the will of God in his life and continued on the path that God had carved out for him. Take advantage of Gods provision in whatever form it comes in and continue to seek after holiness. You can then watch in bewildered amazement as God works out every problem you have and delivers you from every evil work. The just shall live by faith.

When the Israelites reached the Red Sea, God caused it to part that they might cross. By faith they crossed is what we are told in Hebrews. When they reached the promised land they balked in unbelief not believing that God would or could do what he promised. These things were written for our admonishon. Please don't allow a evil heart of unbelief well up in you and cause you to shorten the arm of the Lord.

Psa 78:41 Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel.

Receive his blessings. Do not trust in your flesh to deliver you or put food on your table. The question isn't are you and your husband doing enough to work it out. The question is why isn't God rewarding your efforts of the flesh? The flesh profits nothing. Sitting back and watching God work things out and thanking him when doors are opened or closed is good. Walking through the doors that lead to godly edification and prosperity that God opens is good. I suggest you go read Psalm 23 and meditate upon how David saw God in that Psalm. Always remembering that David trusted in God and not himself or his ability. Even when he slayed Goliath he stated God would deliver him into his hand. It is all about the power being of God and not us.

In Jesus Name,

Gary

[carlos123]

The question isn't are you and your husband doing enough to work it out. The question is why isn't God rewarding your efforts of the flesh?

I agree with most of what you said Gary but I am not so sure about the above being the right question to ask or that it is even something we should be asking at all.

Need in our lives is NOT always a result of something we are not doing properly in our flesh (I mean in the sense that we live and move and breath through our flesh).

In other words just because Dani and her husband find themselves in dire straights does not in and of itself mean that God is not somehow predisposed to help them out or that they are doing something wrong.

Sometimes the Lord has some of us fall into need if for no other reason than that He may want the rest of us to learn to put our money where our faith is and help out a brother and sister in need.

I also think of Job. He had done nothing wrong by God respecting work and otherwise yet everything and I mean everything was taken out from under him. There was something happening in the heavenly realms that was not even his fault at all that resulted in his dire circumstances.

Carlos

[gdemoss]

The question isn't are you and your husband doing enough to work it out. The question is why isn't God rewarding your efforts of the flesh?

I agree with most of what you said Gary but I am not so sure about the above being the right question to ask or that it is even something we should be asking at all.

Need in our lives is NOT always a result of something we are not doing properly in our flesh (I mean in the sense that we live and move and breath through our flesh).

In other words just because Dani and her husband find themselves in dire straights does not in and of itself mean that God is not somehow predisposed to help them out or that they are doing something wrong.

Sometimes the Lord has some of us fall into need if for no other reason than that He may want the rest of us to learn to put our money where our faith is and help out a brother and sister in need.

I also think of Job. He had done nothing wrong by God respecting work and otherwise yet everything and I mean everything was taken out from under him. There was something happening in the heavenly realms that was not even his fault at all that resulted in his dire circumstances.

Carlos

Please pray about this Carlos. Satan loves to use Job. We can only use Job when we are in the same position as Job was in. If I am a perfect man who loves God and hates evil and my world falls apart, then I can pull the Job card. Otherwise, I need to let Job be Job and look at my own life and person according to my own position.

You are correct. The Lord has many different reasons for why he places believers in the positions he does. Much of it is for the purpose of teaching us while he molds us into the image of Christ. Some Christians are rich. Others are poor and needy. One would wonder why this hasn't already taken care of itself. John asks the question. How can a man who has this worlds goods and see his brother have need shut up his bowels of compassion and have the love of God in him? But on the other hand, what of the one who has a need but won't allow the body to help? What does scripture say of this one?

Gods ways are not our ways Carlos. His ways are higher than ours. It is always about submission unto him and his ways. If there be pride in our lives, he will cause it to be turned from if he loves us. Just as with any other sin. God chastens those he loves and puts a whip to the back of every child he receives. You may not understand what or why I am saying what I am saying. I get that. I pray that God will give abundantly unto you all wisdom, knowledge and understanding in his ways as you seek to be obedient unto every precept he has given.

In Jesus Name,

Gary

[carlos123]

You may not understand what or why I am saying what I am saying. I get that.

Gary I believe I get what you are saying and even perhaps why you are saying. I believe you are saying it in love as best you know how to help Dani. So I don't doubt your motives or even the wisdom of your words per se as applied where appropriate.

It is more that I am saying that bad circumstances that befall us and cause us to fall into some need are not ALWAYS a result of our doing something wrong or not having done what we ought to have done in our flesh.

I do agree with you in that sometimes they are.

But in all cases, whether bad circumstances befalling us are a result of our having fallen short or a result of something happening in the heavenlies beyond our control (as happened with Job) or a mix of this or other things...we must look to and trust God in the here and now.

Acknowledging what we did wrong in His Presence is a must for sure Gary. But no amount of acknowledging will change the need we face as a result (if the need is a direct result of what we may have done wrong).

Rather we must avail ourselves of God's gracious mercy and look to Him to help us despite ourselves while we trust Him and act on that trust to do what we can at the present time.

That doesn't mean there won't be consequences if we have been slothful or otherwise. Our basic needs will still be met I think. For food (sustenance) and clothing (shelter) but we may not have much more than that at times as a result of our own foolishness.

It is also true and absolutely so that God disciplines us when we go astray and do not repent. Or even when he wants to teach us something new (discipline in the sense of training). We must yield to such discipline and repent of wrongdoing on our part or accept whatever circumstances are involved in such discipline as coming from His loving hand if the discipline is of a training kind. Only time with the Lord and waiting on Him or perhaps Him speaking through a brother or sister into our lives can reveal which kind of discipline it is I think.

Here is a psalm to consider that just came to my mind.

Psalm 107:17

Fools, because of [l]their rebellious way,

And because of their iniquities, were afflicted.

18 Their soul abhorred all kinds of food,

And they drew near to the gates of death.

19 Then they cried out to the Lord in their trouble;

He saved them out of their distresses.

20 He sent His word and healed them,

And delivered them from their [m]destructions.

21 Let them give thanks to the Lord for His lovingkindness,

And for His [n]wonders to the sons of men!

22 Let them also offer sacrifices of thanksgiving,

And tell of His works with joyful singing.

The whole Psalm is quite good.

God delights in showing mercy to those who have been foolish and have fallen into some dire circumstances as we should be willing to show mercy to each other. Helping where help is needed at the time it is needed.

If indeed foolishness has happened in either me or Dani's or anyone else's life resulting in some need.

Mercy triumphs over judgment overall.

Carlos

[gdemoss]

*snip*

Amen. We speak the same language.

In Christ our Lord,

Gary