Life support

[OldShep]

Just a question, followed by some musing....

If a person is on full life support after a accident or dread disease, and can only "live" on life support, and pulling the plug will result in death......

Is it Ok to pull the plug?

My thought is that the person is for all intent and purpose dead, and is being kept alive by machines alone, and man is keeping him alive.

God has therefore already acted. The person is dead...

If the plug is pulled and the person dies, freed from the machines, man was keeping them alive.

If the plug is pulled and the person miraculously revives God has acted.

Difficult subject. But I still think if it is a machine alone, God has already acted.

I know this is an emotive subject, but when writing a will it could be very important.

I can not answer this question for YOU, "Is it Ok to pull the plug?" I can tell you this:

I held my mothers hand as she passed on into the arms of the Lord after removing her from { life support } for the { 3rd time. }

.

The first time I had life support removed the doctors were telling she only had minutes to live, I knew mom did not want to live on a machine. Yet, in my heart I felt I was killing my own mother if I removed her from the machine. After great distress I told them to disconnect her, I then had to return to an assignment took me to another country for a few weeks. Mom was healed and lived for 7 more years total . The second time caused a big fight between my sister and myself about it, but, mother's wishes were not to be attached to a machine, so { we } pulled the plug. Mom got better and lived for 2 years after the second time, the 3rd time she peacefully passed on into the Lords Arms.

ICL~~~Dennis

[~candice~]

I have pulled a plug. IMHO it can be the best thing to do.

Machines cannot keep you alive, but they can artificially generate a pulse, and heartbeat etc.

And personally, if I am in that position, please PULL THE PLUG and let me go home.

Can they prevent you from going home with a machine? If they can, that means you are still alive, so to pull the plug is to kill you. If you are really brain dead, the body is functioning, but you are gone. Even if you are not gone, you don't know anything at that time, because you are brain dead, so what is 20 years asleep in the scheme of eternity? I can't think of any good reason to pull the plug, except from a financial standpoint. There is no reason to do it.

I just read Mizzdy's post, and she says that "there is no life on a machine, eventually the brain waves cease to exist and that person is no longer there." If that is the case, what difference does it make if the person is left on the machine indefinately? They don't feel anything. Either the soul has already left the body and gone to be with the Lord, or they are in a state of sleep. Either way, they aren't suffering, so what harm is there in leaving them on life support?

Can you justify leaving them on the machine?

For a lot of families, they need the closure. Is it really right to string them along for twenty years? If insurance is an issue, how can they cope with keeping an essentially dead person's body going for 20 years?

I really do think that sometimes, keeping the body going when the life is gone, is a lack of faith.

I mentioned the financial reason some may be forced to pull the plug, even if they don't want to. The reasons you just gave are not about the person on the machine, but involve the family. It almost sounds selfish? It would be like having a family member on life support, and my reason for pulling the plug was I didn't want to be bothered with them anymore. I could very easily leave family members on a machine, and cope with it. I would have more trouble living with the thought I pulled the plug, when they may have recovered if they were allowed to remain on the machine? Lack of faith in what? Each person has to answer to God for their own life. How do I know if the person on the machine is really ready to meet God, and what has that got to do with my faith or lack thereof? I just believe human life is precious, and it should be saved if possible. When it is really someone's time to go, they will die anyway, machine or not.

Hey Butero,

It's because Fez conditioned this argument on the person being dead already for all intents and purposes. If there was a chance of recovery we are in a totally different ball park.

God bless

Candice

[Mark2005]

How fair is it to bankrupt the family, to wipe out college savings or investments of whatever in order to prolong the life of one person, regardless of what the chances are for recovery?

I am all in favor of government-funded health care. But as long as private individuals and/or private insurance companies are footing the bill then they are the ones to call the shots. He who pays the piper calls the tunes.

[Sevenseas]

Just a question, followed by some musing....

If a person is on full life support after a accident or dread disease, and can only "live" on life support, and pulling the plug will result in death......

Is it Ok to pull the plug?

My thought is that the person is for all intent and purpose dead, and is being kept alive by machines alone, and man is keeping him alive.

God has therefore already acted. The person is dead...

If the plug is pulled and the person dies, freed from the machines, man was keeping them alive.

If the plug is pulled and the person miraculously revives God has acted.

Difficult subject. But I still think if it is a machine alone, God has already acted.

I know this is an emotive subject, but when writing a will it could be very important.

Is it OK? yes

If the plug is pulled as you say, and the person revives, then God has acted.

Otherwise, I think people are playing God when a person who is 'dead' is kept artificially breathing and heart beating.

I sure would not want that done to me.

You could use the same argument with regard to medicine in general. I could say that the use of a pace-maker is playing God, and allowing someone to live past their appointed time. I could say that a person on dialisis should have been dead, but for modern technology that allowed them to live past their appointed time. The playing God argument can be used with heart transplants, or liver transplants, just about anything. If I really believed like that, I couldn't use medicine when I was sick, and wouldn't even bother going to the doctor, because I could say that was playing God. A respirator is just another tool doctors have to keep someone alive they didn't always have. It is not differen't than any of the other medical advances we have that have lengthened mankind's lifespan.

Well now I didn't say that and you saying that does not make it so. I believe doctors can and should do what they can to keep a live person alive

As far as I know, you can actually discuss a pacemaker implant with a heart patient because their brain is responsive.

Ummmm......using the type of logic you seem to using, why not clone those who have left us if we just cannot say goodbye?

I fail to see value in comparing elective or even necessary surgery with keeping a body in a vegatative state functioning.

Respectfully, either you do not understand the question being asked or it is too sensitive for you to deal with.

What if you are keeping someone from heaven by keeping their body alive when God has called them home? See, that would

be the flip side of 'keeping them alive because we don't know....maybe they could be saved.'

I do know that certain doctors like to 'play' God....I don't want any part of that

I do not see a connection between life saving surgery and a body with no brain function that cannot live without the aid of a machine

If that is your reasoning, well, then that is your reasoning but you certainly are not going to convince me to change my mind using

that as a defense for keeping the plug in...you know, I might say well we'll give it a weekor something, but otherwise, it really does

not make sense IMO

[Sevenseas]

It is a whole lot easier when you know what the person wants. If you knew those were her wishes, you weren't really making the decision on your own. For that reason, it is probably a good idea to have a living will?

A living will is an excellent idea and might save a whole lot of grief.

[rich08]

I found out tonight that my daughter's youth group leader is facing exactly this with her father-in-law. They're getting a second opinion to make sure there's nothing that can be done, but things do not look very good. Very sad. One for your prayers.

[Sevenseas]

Well, you haven't said anything that will change my mind either. Using your arguments, anytime you do anything to prolong a person's life, you are playing God. You may not want to acknowledge that is the case, but it is. You can't keep someone from going to God beyond their time. God would not allow that to happen. That would make man stronger than God. Even if you could, so what? How long could we do that? 10 years, 20? What is that when it comes to eternity? If the person is really dead, then they are not in their body. If the fact the machine is keeping them alive delays their going to God, then they are asleep, and don't know it anyway. They will still eventually reach their destination. There is no good reason to pull the plug, except for the money side of it.

Ummm...but we are not discussing prolonging life...we are discussing someone who would no longer be alive if not kept artificially alive as in if it were up to

the natural sequence of events death would have been inevitable

You can't change the op to suit yr personal arguement. I don't think you are being quite logical here frankly. If they are DEAD, no brain function and they

would be on a slab in the morgue if not for electricity, it seems the actual people playing god are the ones refusing to admit the one they loved is no

longer on this earth.

Here is the original op...I have underlined the content that refers specifically to a person being dead...not someone with actual brainwaves who can

breathe on their own etc

Just a question, followed by some musing....

If a person is on full life support after a accident or dread disease, and can only "live" on life support, and pulling the plug will result in death......

Is it Ok to pull the plug?

My thought is that the person is for all intent and purpose dead, and is being kept alive by machines alone, and man is keeping him alive.

God has therefore already acted. The person is dead...

If the plug is pulled and the person dies, freed from the machines, man was keeping them alive.

If the plug is pulled and the person miraculously revives God has acted.

Difficult subject. But I still think if it is a machine alone, God has already acted.

I know this is an emotive subject, but when writing a will it could be very important.

Now the above is what I agree with and please note, if the person lives, then obviously God has not called them; they are not dead

All this other stuff about prolonging life and me playing god is not anything I have said and not what the op is about.

You are actually stating another case altogether....

Edited May 29, 2012 by sevenseas

[Sevenseas]

There is no good reason to pull the plug, except for the money side of it.

Oh, there is more reason than that...in fact, some other posters have covered that

[AnotherSinner]

Former Father-In-Law (Mother-In-Law's) deceased husband was on a machine to breathe. The minute he learned he could not sing or play his guitar again....he pulled the plug. Those were his means of income and in truth, the gifts God gave him. Without those, his life had no meaning....

Not really sure where to stand on this. Man has been trying to do so many things in the medical field. Prolonging life is but one of them. God is always in control, there is no arguing that....but how do we know when it is our time? Have heard so many who walk close to death say 'they are ready.' Or that more or less 'their time is near' and not too long after they leave this earth. Is it possible they know something we do not?

Just Another Sinner Seeking The Way

Dani