The Rapture by Terry James

[HAZARD]

1 hour ago, seeking the lost said:

John the beloved was aware of all the events that you point out and yet when it comes to the resurrection of the tribulation martyrs he identifies it as the first.  The rapture must be associated with one of these.  We will not proceed them, those who are asleep at the time of the writing of Thessalonians.  That placeses the rapture at the end of the millennium.  The purpose of the rapture is to take us to a new heaven and a new earth.  This earth will melt with fervent heat, pass away.  And so shall we ever be with the LORD. 

The rapture will occur before the tribulation, here's why it must and does occur before the tribulation.

The purpose of the rapture is to resurrect the just from the dead and take all the saints out of the world before the tribulation comes, in order that they may have fulfilled in them the purpose for which God has saved them.

Jesus told the disciples that some would escape the terrible things that were to transpire on the Earth in the last days. He said, “Pray that you may be accounted worth to escape all these things of, Matt. 24, 25; Luke 21:1-19, 25-28, that shall come to pass, and stand before the Son of man,” Luke 21:34-36.

These two passages in Luke 21:34-36 and John 14:1-3, are the only ones in the Gospels that are clear concerning the Rapture. Jesus did not reveal this, it was revealed by Paul many years later in 1 Cor. 15:51.

The disciples did not have the slightest idea as to how they were to escape, unless they thought that Christ would deliver them from these things through His power. The how was not revealed or even mentioned before Paul explained how they were to escape.

The Rapture of the church should never be confused with the second coming or second advent of Christ, for He does not come to the earth at that time.
The Rapture is a distinct coming in itself, not to the Earth, but in the air where Christ meets the saints and then takes them back to Heaven to present them blameless before God the Father, John 14:1-3; 1 Thess. 3:13; 4:16, 17.

The Rapture takes place several years before the literal advent of Christ to the Earth, for they, the saints come back with Him at that time. The saints are in Heaven before God, and not in the air, from the time of the Rapture to their coming again with Christ to reign as kings and priests, Jude 14; Rev. 19:14; Zech. 14:5.

At the Rapture, the Lord comes from Heaven as far as the air, or Earthly Heavens and the saints will be caught up to meet Him in the air.

At the second coming, the saints are not raptured, and neither is Christ, but both will come back to the Earth together. The rapture takes place before the Tribulation, whereas the second Advent takes place after the Tribulation. The Rapture could occur at any time, whereas the second Advent cannot occur until after the tribulation.

[seeking the lost]

58 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

The rapture will occur before the tribulation, here's why it must and does occur before the tribulation.

The purpose of the rapture is to resurrect the just from the dead and take all the saints out of the world before the tribulation comes, in order that they may have fulfilled in them the purpose for which God has saved them.

Jesus told the disciples that some would escape the terrible things that were to transpire on the Earth in the last days. He said, “Pray that you may be accounted worth to escape all these things of, Matt. 24, 25; Luke 21:1-19, 25-28, that shall come to pass, and stand before the Son of man,” Luke 21:34-36.

These two passages in Luke 21:34-36 and John 14:1-3, are the only ones in the Gospels that are clear concerning the Rapture. Jesus did not reveal this, it was revealed by Paul many years later in 1 Cor. 15:51.

The disciples did not have the slightest idea as to how they were to escape, unless they thought that Christ would deliver them from these things through His power. The how was not revealed or even mentioned before Paul explained how they were to escape.

The Rapture of the church should never be confused with the second coming or second advent of Christ, for He does not come to the earth at that time.
The Rapture is a distinct coming in itself, not to the Earth, but in the air where Christ meets the saints and then takes them back to Heaven to present them blameless before God the Father, John 14:1-3; 1 Thess. 3:13; 4:16, 17.

The Rapture takes place several years before the literal advent of Christ to the Earth, for they, the saints come back with Him at that time. The saints are in Heaven before God, and not in the air, from the time of the Rapture to their coming again with Christ to reign as kings and priests, Jude 14; Rev. 19:14; Zech. 14:5.

At the Rapture, the Lord comes from Heaven as far as the air, or Earthly Heavens and the saints will be caught up to meet Him in the air.

At the second coming, the saints are not raptured, and neither is Christ, but both will come back to the Earth together. The rapture takes place before the Tribulation, whereas the second Advent takes place after the Tribulation. The Rapture could occur at any time, whereas the second Advent cannot occur until after the tribulation.

Concerning the coming of Jesus to the earth... He is not absent at this time.  He said I am with you always even unto the end of the earth.  He is identified as the One who was and is and is to come.

The rapture cannot happen before the tribulation.  Jesus taught that the tares will be taken out first.  The pretrib rapture changes that order.

Matthew 13:30Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

[HAZARD]

2 hours ago, seeking the lost said:

Concerning the coming of Jesus to the earth... He is not absent at this time.  He said I am with you always even unto the end of the earth.  He is identified as the One who was and is and is to come.

The rapture cannot happen before the tribulation.  Jesus taught that the tares will be taken out first.  The pretrib rapture changes that order.

Matthew 13:30Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

You wrote,

"Concerning the coming of Jesus to the earth... He is not absent at this time."

I'm sorry, but the Scriptures teach differently. Jesus is not here on Earth now, Jesus, as these Scriptures teach was raised by the Father and Jesus is "NOW" sitting at His Fathers right hand in Heaven. The Father, (John 14:26),  sent the Holy Spirit to help and guide Christs followers and to draw those who would become followers of Christ.

Romans 10:9, That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Father raised Jesus.

Galatians 1:1, Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;) Father raised Jesus.

Ephesians 1:20, Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Father set Jesus at His right hand.

The Father did send the the Holy Spirit as Jesus promised to comfort us until Jesus returns again.

John 14:16, And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:26, But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 15:26, But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:7, Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Jesus is in Heaven and as the Scriptures teach, and He is sitting at His Fathers right hand. Jesus is here in Spirit only at this time not bodily at this time.

Matthew 18:20, For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

If two or three of you shall agree. Two or three shall constitute a Christian fellowship. The united prayers of this fellowship for any legitimate object shall be heard. The assurance of this is found in the fact that Christ will be present in Spirit wherever two or three are gathered in his name. Their united prayers will ascend, be made mighty by the intercession of the Son of God. By his presence it, in His Name, it becomes his prayer.
In my name. As followers of Christ. A clear reference to the omnipresence, omniscience, and omnipotence of Christ among believers, and proof of His Deity.

[Ezra]

16 hours ago, seeking the lost said:

Concerning the coming of Jesus to the earth... He is not absent at this time.  He said I am with you always even unto the end of the earth.

Yes, Christ is with the Church and with every believer in Spirit, but that does not nullify His literal physical coming for His saints "in the air".  "In the air" is critical, since Christ does not descend to earth at the Rapture. Rather, the saints ascend up to meet Him in the air.

16 hours ago, seeking the lost said:

Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them:

Notice that the harvest is at the end of the "world" (or age) and the reapers are the angels.  This is connected with the Great Tribulation in Revelation 14.  But the Rapture has no connection with the Great Tribulation.

[seeking the lost]

14 hours ago, HAZARD said:

Matthew 18:20, For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

If two or three of you shall agree. Two or three shall constitute a Christian fellowship. The united prayers of this fellowship for any legitimate object shall be heard. The assurance of this is found in the fact that Christ will be present in Spirit wherever two or three are gathered in his name. Their united prayers will ascend, be made mighty by the intercession of the Son of God. By his presence it, in His Name, it becomes his prayer.
In my name. As followers of Christ. A clear reference to the omnipresence, omniscience, and omnipotence of Christ among believers, and proof of His Deity.

This is an interesting view of omnipresence.  Jesus is omnipresent but He is not here?  Not only is He seated in the heavenly realm but weare seated with Him.

Ephesians 2:6New International Version (NIV)

6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

The Holy Spirit is also omnipresent and was not absent from the world when He became the comforter.  He has always been in the world and with God and is God.  Consider the words from Job.

Job 34:13-15New International Version (NIV)

13 Who appointed him over the earth?
    Who put him in charge of the whole world?
14 If it were his intention
    and he withdrew his spirit[a] and breath,
15 all humanity would perish together
    and mankind would return to the dust.

2 hours ago, Ezra said:

Notice that the harvest is at the end of the "world" (or age) and the reapers are the angels.  This is connected with the Great Tribulation in Revelation 14.  But the Rapture has no connection with the Great Tribulation.

It is at the end of the age that the rapture occurs.

[Ezra]

1 minute ago, seeking the lost said:

It is at the end of the age that the rapture occurs.

What Scripture reveals is that the Rapture is imminent -- could occur at any time.  That was the expectation of the apostles and the Christians of that time.  That is also the expectation of Christians today.

Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. (Mt 24:44)

Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh. (Mt 25:13).

[HAZARD]

seeking the lost said:

It is at the end of the age that the rapture occurs.

.

 

Matthew 24:36, But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

I wonder who leaked this information to seeking the lost?

[KPaulG]

On 5/30/2012 at 7:17 AM, angels4u said:

By Terry James

 

 

 

The Rapture – Answering the Critics

This generation is full of scoffers, mocking the prophesied return of Jesus Christ to Planet Earth. This is as the great Apostle Peter foretold it would be at the end of the age of grace (Church Age): “Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation” (2 Pet. 3:3-4).

God’s prophecies are 100 percent accurate, so it doesn’t surprise in the least that there is the scoffing and mocking today, exactly as one of God’s prophets said there will be as time nears the Lord’s return. Many signals are occurring simultaneously, and with phenomenal frequency and intensity, pointing to where we are on God’s prophetic timeline. Chief among these are all of the geopolitical dynamic intrigues surrounding the nation Israel –God’s prophetic timepiece. The sneering at the thought that there could possibly be a rapture just throws fuel on the fire of the end-of-days deluge –the end that is coming in with a flood of last-days indicators as foretold by Daniel the prophet: “And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined” (Dan 9:26).

Daniel was foretelling what would happen from the time the Messiah, Jesus Christ, would die for the sins of mankind until the very end of human history at Armageddon. Great, convulsing, prophesied issues and events would, near the very end of the age, he forecast, gush through the generation alive at the time like a flood.

Daniel’s End-Time Flood

One of those predicted events of the end-time flood is the level of anger that will be against believers who proclaim that one of the most stupendous events of all human history will one day –perhaps very soon—take millions upon millions from the earth’s surface in a fraction of a second.

We receive in our e-mail each week any number of messages declaring that the truth we champion regarding Bible doctrine and prophecies –particularly the pre-trib rapture of the Church-- are everything from ludicrous to heretical. This criticism gets especially intense whenever the raptureready.com website is written or spoken about in a major media outlet. That is to be expected, because there can be no spiritual discernment among those of the lost world. Believers in Jesus Christ can understand, while those who do not belong to God’s family through belief in His only begotten Son cannot understand:

“For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned” (1 Cor. 2:11-14).

Defense of Rapture to Lost and Saved

Trying to explain or defend the rapture to the world of the lost is, therefore, fruitless. There is just no way they can come to understand or believe this doctrine, unless and until they repent, ask for--and accept--God’s grace gift offer of salvation through Jesus Christ’s sacrifice on the cross at Calvary nearly two millennia ago. We can go through the vast body of scriptural text, laying out the Bible facts as we are confident God’s Word presents truth about the rapture. But, unless and until one is capable of spiritual discernment from the Holy Spirit, a person, no matter how intellectually brilliant, can never come to believe those facts. They might even come to understand the facts in a purely cerebral sense, but never truly comprehend them to the point of knowing that the rapture is a cataclysmic event in the future of one particular generation of earth’s inhabitants.

So, our efforts to explain the rapture will meet with quite limited results, seeing as how there is a great spiritual discernment disconnect, when explaining to those who don’t know Christ for salvation. This we accept, thus can move ahead with limited frustration in putting the truth about prophecy and the rapture before these as best we can.

Dealing with the Body of Christ--all born-again believers--is quite another thing, when it comes to our frustration meter. It becomes a bit more disconcerting when our efforts to put out truth about prophecy, and the rapture in particular, is met with the same arguments, no matter how thoroughly and how cogently we organize and present what God’s Word has to tell His children about these matters.

Hard-Shell Rapture Detractors

There are, of course, the die-hard preterists (believing that most all prophecy has been completed or should be spiritualized) and the reform replacement theological enclaves (those who declare God’s promises have been taken from Israel and given to the church). These make their livings throwing mudballs –usually with stones at the centers—at those of us who proclaim the truth that Jesus will come for His Church –all born-again believers—BEFORE the tribulation era –the last seven years of human history that culminates at Armageddon. These, who refuse to see two programs of God’s dealing with mankind, Israel , and the Church --these two dovetailing into one magnificent prophetic culmination-- castigate us who believe that God deals with His creation called man dispensationally (the ages of Adam, Noah, Moses, Abraham, David, the Church, Tribulation, Millennium, etc.). Sometimes, it seems fruitless to try to break through the thick spiritual iron wills of these, in trying to present truth about the rapture. But, these are not the most troubling that seem to fit the 2 Peter 3: 3-4 description, so far as scoffing is concerned. The more concerning, to me, at least, are those who, despite being given, time after time, the same tremendously in-depth explanation from God’s Word about the rapture and the truth that it will be a pre-trib one, continue to come to us with the same arguments to the contrary. This, despite the fact that they visit the Rapture Ready website, and can read more than 15,000 articles on matters of God’s truth, many dealing specifically with eschatology.

These are Christians who just seem to have it in their determination that they must go through –endure—the tribulation, the time about which Jesus foretold the following: “For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be” (Matt. 24:21).

The Tribulation, if we can imagine, will be worse than the concentration camps, torture chambers, crematoriums of Hitler, or the most terrible days of the inquisitions with all of the devilish methods of torture. Yet, there seems to be a need –they deludedly think—for some Christians to go through that time, during which Antichrist will do his dead-level best to kill every person who refuses to worship him.

Anti-Rapture Example

I’ve chosen one letter from such a Christian. It is a simple and mild letter; no mud-ball throwing. But, it represents the most troubling of all of the critics of the rapture of the Church, in my view. It is most troubling that these types think as they do, because it shows an almost willfulness against accepting God’s promises, summed by this passage: “For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ” (1 Thess. 5:9).

Here is what she wrote, in part:

“I know that the Tribulation is going to be extremely bad and even worse than I can imagine but I sincerely believe I along with you and other Christians that are living at the time, will be going thru the bad. I am prepared mentally and will do whatever comes my way to either get thru or stand up and say no when needed. If I am one that is to [be] beheaded then so be it. I know GOD will be holding my hand and whatever comes my way, HE will see me thru. If I can be of any use to GOD to help save people then I am prepared to do as HE wants. I have many family members that are not believers now and pray daily that will change. I do believe that many souls will be saved. I know that I am a sinner and do not like verses of the Bible taken out of context. The whole book or at least the chapter needs to [be] read and understood not just a verse here and now to prove a theory that did not even come into being until a couple of hundred years ago. How is every eye going to see JESUS return if HE comes back in secret. Just don't believe any are going to be "raptured away". The Bible states that HEAVEN will be coming down here not us going up there.”

Tragic Misconceptions Unscriptural

The Christian sister makes a number of statements of misconception that are dealt with through hundreds of the thousands of articles on the RR website. This is my problem. Many criticisms of us who hold to the pre-trib rapture are issued forth by those who obviously have never mined the rich resources available to them, before making their criticisms/argumentations.

She writes that she is sure that she will be going through the tribulation, in order to stand for Christ and help God save people out of that horrendous time. She charges that she has disdain for those who twist Scripture out of context, with those (like us, I presume) using scattered and sporadic Scripture passages to make our points.

She, at the same time, provides no Scripture for any of her criticisms of the rapture “theory,” as she puts it. However, most who make this charge do so, using Scripture from Revelation that they declare shows saints in the middle of that time of Tribulation. Thus, they conclude, the Church is right there, taking the brunt of Antichrist’s rage and God’s wrath.

Dispensational Discernment Required

Indeed, believers will populate that era by the millions. It will, many who study that period believe, be a time of the greatest coming to Christ in the history of man. What the writer of this letter–and others—fail to recognize, or even consider, is that God deals with man, including His children, in dispensations. There are saints of the Church Age at present, and there will be saints during the tribulation. Neither will be together in the same dispensation.

Jesus told us that He would build His church upon the gospel message the apostle Peter had just given, telling Jesus that he believed Jesus was the Christ, the Son of the Living God: “And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it” (Matt. 16:17-18).

Do you see that? The gates of hell –Satan—will not prevail against the Church. That’s all about the Church Age saints.

The Revelation tells quite another story for God’s saints. The following Scripture is speaking, of course, about Satan’s great tyrant, Antichrist, during the Tribulation era: “And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations” (Rev. 13:7). The Church will not be “overcome” by Satan, because it won’t be here. The tribulation saints (those who accept Christ after the rapture) will be overcome to a large extent –lose their physical lives for the cause of Christ.

Myth-Making Against Rapture

Our Christian critic-friend proves that she has at least done some study, but not from God’s Word. She has read the books and literature of those who incessantly and speciously claim that we who believe in the pre-trib rapture have learned our “false” doctrine from a 19th-century witch, who somehow influenced John Darby to later perpetrate the hated rapture theory.

The most ludicrous of the criticisms is that we base our view that there will be a rapture upon Margaret MacDonald’s vision in the 1800s. It makes me almost nauseous to have to even address this –for the thousandth time, when, if the critics would just read what is already written on the subject on the site, it should quell their proclivity to make such ridiculous claims. But, I will briefly answer again, those who are so intellectually and spiritually lazy.

The rapture, the "catching up" (harpazo) was revealed by Paul the apostle. It is a mystery he gave us through Holy Spirit inspiration, as recorded in 1 Corinthians 15:51-55 and 1 Thessalonians 4: 13-18. The Rapture was not the concoction of John Darby, who picked up this teaching, and gave it improved order of presentation centuries after the doctrine was believed and taught by the early church fathers (first two centuries AD).

The rapture isn't built on one or two verses, but on the entire body of Scripture. When viewed in totality, and in context, the doctrine flows with prophetic signals we observe occurring in the world today--i.e., the world isn’t getting better and better as the "kingdom-now" people believe (that the Church will make the world better until Christ can return to set up His throne). The pre-trib rapture view puts forward that the world will grow worse and worse. The Church will be removed from earth, then God’s judgment will begin to fall on rebellious earth-dwellers.

Which do we see happening today? The world getting better and better –or- are things looking worse and worse for Planet Earth? Read the daily headlines, or watch the hourly news, and you will have your answer.

Two Phases of Second Coming

Again, Paul shows us the mystery --i.e., he reveals the mystery of the rapture in 1 Corinthians 15: 51-55. The mystery he is expanding upon is the wonderful promise Jesus made as shown in John 14: 1-3. Jesus is coming for us --before God's wrath must fall.

A foreshadowing of that principle is seen in Genesis, chapter 19, when God said that He could do nothing in the way of sending judgment upon Sodom and Gomorrah until Lot was first removed. Lot represented the only righteousness God recognized. It was Lot 's faith --as puny as it was-- that kept him and the other few believers of his family from the time of God's wrath--again, Revelation 3:10.

Our critic asks how all eyes can see Christ return, if He comes secretly in some rapture. She declares she just doesn’t believe anyone is going to be raptured away, and she states Christ will be coming down to earth, not Christians going up to Him. Again, she, and those who fill her head with anti-rapture rhetoric fail to, or willfully refuse to, see God’s dispensations in dealing with man. In the case of the return of Christ, Scripture makes it clear there are two separate returns. These are at least seven years apart, one from the other.

Jesus will return at some unknown time in the rapture. Jesus, himself, likens that coming to a thief-in-the-night experience for those on earth. They won’t know what has happened, and certainly won’t see Christ. Paul says it is a moment in time when all believers (the Church) will meet Jesus in the air: “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord” (1 Thess. 4:16-17).

Jesus will come the second time, following at least seven earth years, at the close of the tribulation era, known also as “Daniel’s seventieth week.” This time He will come all the way to the planet, and every eye will behold Him. There will be absolutely no doubt about this re-entry and landing: “And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God” (Rev. 19:11-15).

Scriptural Proof Required

As stated before, each of these things intended to deny the validity and credence of pre-trib rapture are dealt with at great length, and in tremendous depth throughout the RR website. All opposing views are carefully dissected, and with Scripture given at every point along the way in addressing any and every question. But, it DOES take determined research to seek out truth found in the articles –truth that is God’s Word, not merely ours.

And, here is the main crux of this dear lady’s problem in not discerning truth about Christ’s coming for the Church –for her. She presents not one Scripture to back up any of her assertions, declarations, or suppositions/postulations. She simply parrots things critical of the rapture doctrine she has read or heard from those who mock, without anything of spiritual substance to back her/their criticisms.

My intention is not to pick on her. I want only to used her method of criticism –a method used in almost every instance by those who listen to the anti-rapture crowd-- as an example to show there is no foundation to her/their argument/denial that the rapture is a doctrine taught in God’s Word. This is our answer to such critics. Study the Word of God. Make your criticisms from His Word –as the dear woman says—not from just a Scripture here or there, but from the whole context of the matter, whatever the matter happens to be.

I have studied most all of the positions and variations thereof involved in these arguments for decades --which gives away my age, I guess. The pre-trib view of prophecy yet future is absolutely the only one that makes sense in the totality of scriptural context, and in terms of what we see unfolding today in things of geopolitics, global socio-economics, and religion.

Salvation – Rapture Inseparable

The Rapture is an issue incontrovertibly linked to salvation --something Jesus did on the cross, which puts us in God's family when we truly believe. That faith keeps us from the time of God's wrath --both in the coming tribulation, and in eternity. Wrath and judgment must fall upon rebellious mankind, because of sin. Jesus paid the price for that sin. He said on the cross "It is finished." Sin was forever paid for at that moment, for those who would accept his sacrifice --the only sacrifice that God will accept --the precious blood of His Blessed Son.

We are told we as Christians, while in the flesh, will have tribulations (troubles). Certainly Christians have had troubles down through the years. Persecutions --genocide, martyrdom, etc. These horrors are still happening in some places around the world. But, this was not, and is not, God's wrath and judgment, but was, and is, satanic rage against God's people. The tribulation will include satanic rage, but it will be within the horrific storm of God's wrath and judgment.

Christians (those who have been --as our critic says-- saved following the rapture-- will certainly suffer satanic rage, but not God's wrath. Many will be martyred, as in the times of the early persecutions --like Christians are being martyred in some nations today. But, we are told that we (Paul denotes the difference between Christians of the Church Age and those who aren't in God's family by the use of pronouns) we aren't appointed to wrath, but to salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. We are told by Paul to "comfort one another with these words"--not look to fear, but to comfort (read 1 Thess. 4:18, and 5:9-11). We will be kept out of "the time of testing (the apocalypse or tribulation), John was told by Jesus (Rev. 3:10).

Rapture Ready or Not…

Now, you might not agree, and that's fine. If you know Christ you are going instantly to Him anyway, when Jesus says "Come up hither," as He did to John in Revelation 4:1-2. You will have no other choice, if you are in God's family. But, please don't ever think --or claim--that there is only scattered verses here and there, or that there is no tremendously deep body of scriptural evidence and proofs beneath the truth of the pre-trib rapture.

Again, you can disagree, but, please don't accuse us of not knowing about the other views, and, don't just blindly accept what opponents falsely say when they lie, proclaiming that we just believe in something a 19th-century Englishman said, or that we follow some woman who dabbled in the occult. That isn't true, and you should look more deeply into the evidence upon which we base these understandings, than just to take the word of those who make such shallow and deceptive accusations.

Put this Scripture in a place you can memorize it –and make it your model truth for avoiding the pitfalls of intellectual and scriptural laziness: “Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth” (2 Tim. 2:15).

When the rapture happens, "we who are still alive will be caught up together to meet with the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever."

[seeking the lost]

3 hours ago, HAZARD said:

Matthew 24:36, But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

I wonder who leaked this information to seeking the lost?

Straight up Bible without perversion.

Harvesting the Earth and Trampling the Winepress

14 I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one like a son of man with a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand. 15 Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, “Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest  of the earth is ripe.” 16 So he who was seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested.

17 Another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. 18 Still another angel, who had charge of the fire, came from the altar and called in a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, “Take your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes from the earth’s vine, because its grapes are ripe.” 19 The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God’s wrath. 20 They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press, rising as high as the horses’ bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia.[c]

The words of Jesus:

The Parable of the Weeds Explained

36 Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field.”

37 He answered, “The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man.38 The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.

40 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil.42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.

The wheat and the tares grow up together until this time.  Tasres taken out first.  Wheat gathered in.  Straight up BIBLE.

[HAZARD]

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“Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest  of the earth is ripe.” 16 So he who was seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested."

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This is symbolic of the battle of Armagedon (V 15-16; Joel 3:12-16. Cp. Rev. 19:21; Matt. 13:30, 39, Isa. 11:4; Jer. 51:33; Hos. 6:11; 2 Thess. 2:8).

Quote

 

"18 Still another angel, who had charge of the fire, came from the altar and called in a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, “Take your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes from the earth’s vine, because its grapes are ripe.”

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The angel, who had charge of the fire, . . . Over the fire of the altar to minister as in 8:3-5; 9:13.  This is the second picture of the battle of Armagedon as in this chapter (v 18-20; 19:15; Isa. 63:1-6; Joel 3:12-16). Blood will flow on this battlefield up to the horses bridles about 184 miles (v 20). This blood river will come from the veins of multitudes slain in the battle from the hail, blood overflowing rain that will fall from heaven on this day (Ez. 38:21-23).

The parable of the tares and Wheat (Matt. 13:24-30, 36-43).

1, The Kingdom of heaven is "like" (Matt.13;24).

2. The sower illustrates the Son of man (Matt. 13:24, 37).

3. The "good seed" illustrates the true children of the kingdom of Heaven. The Tares illustrate the professed children of the kingdom who are in reality, the sons of the devil, who sowed them among the wheat (Matt. 13;25, 38-39).

The wheat being in the ground first shows God's plan concerning the kingdom - that only good shall be in it and that every one who professes to be a child of God should really be one. An enemy sowed tares among the wheat, causing a mixture of good and bad in the same field. This the Kingdom of Heaven now takes on a new aspect and should rightlybe understood as "the sphere of profession, "Chrisendom," or "the kingdom of Heaven in mystery."

The word 'tares (Greek, zizania, which occurs only in Matt. 13:25) is not the same as the darnel of the naturalists, but zewan as known in Palestine today. While growing it looks like wheat, but when full grown the ears are long and the grain black. Each grain of zewan must be removed before grinding the wheat, or the bread is bitter and poisonus. Tares show their true color as they ripen Verse 26 shows that the tares could not be detected until the fruit began to appear (Matt. 7:15-20). The enemy "went his way" in confidence that the seed would grow of its own nature. Should not this be our confidence in the good seed?

4. The field illustrates the world of men (Matt. 13:38).

5. The tares and the wheat both grow side by side in the same field, which is the will of the householder, until the harvest (Matt. 13:37-40). Both saved and unsaved who profess to be children of the kingdom will mingle together in this world until the end of this age. A real Christian, to get away from sinners and hypocritics, would have to get out of the world (1 Cor. 5:9-11).

6. The harvest illustrates the separation of the wicked among the just at the end of this age when the Messiah comes to reign (Matt. 11:29-43; 25:31-46; 1 Thess. 5:1-11; 2 Thess. 1:7-10; Jude 14; Zech. 14:1-21). IT DOES NOT ILLUSTRATE THE RAPTURE OF THE CHURCH BEFORE HIS COMING AS RULER OF THIS WORLD.

7. The reapers illustrate angels who will separate the wicked from the good when Christ comes (Matt. 13:39-43; 24:31, 51; 25:31-46; 2 Thess. 1"7-10).

The expression of "the end of the world" means the end of the age. At this time the Kingdom of heaven ceases to be the sphere of profession and becomes the literal Kingdom of Heaven, or the reign of the Messiah over all the kingdoms of this world (Rev.11:15; Dan. 7:13-14, 18).

8. "Then shall the righteous shine forth in the kingdom of their Father" (Matt. 19:28; 25:31-46; Rev. 5:10; 20:1-10.