speaking in tounges

[GoldenEagle]

Okay I think I understand how the term is used. But what about the question itself? It really wasn't addressed.

I thought you were just trying to see what I meant by the term "full gospel," so that is why I answered as I did. It wasn't to avoid your question.

A. Is a church that doesn't believe/teach the baptism of the Holy Ghost (I assume speaking in tongues is the manifestation or what other way does one measure this?) not preaching the full Gospel as found in God's Word? Yes or No?

No. The reason we use the term full gospel is because we are speaking of a church that preaches the whole council of the Word of God. That means the entire Bible, but especially, the entire New Testament. A church that neglects to preach on the Baptism of the Holy Ghost is not preaching the full gospel as found in God's Word.

B. Also what if the same church doesn't emphasize teachings regarding certain gifts of the Holy Spirit such as healings and/or prophecy? Is this hypothetical church not preaching the Gospel as found in God's Word? Yes or No?

They are preaching part of the Gospel as found in God's Word, but not all of it.

Again curious.

God bless,

GE

I hope that helps clear things up? Again, I wasn't trying to duck your question. I thought you misunderstood what I meant, and when I simply call a church a full gospel church, I am generally using the term for identification purposes. At the same time, the term does have significance.

Thanks for the clarification brother.

I'm interested as this line of thinking is a bit disturbing to me... Let's say half of the Body of Christ (the universal Church) speaks in tongues and half does not. Are you saying that half of the Body of Christ is either 1. not saved or 2. doesn't understand the full Gospel of Jesus Christ? So help me understand how in your view would an all-powerful God would allow this to happen?

And to really narrow down the conversation I don't speak in tongues. God just has not gifted me with such a gift of His Spirit. However, He has gifted me with teaching and encouraging others. Are you saying that simply because I don't speak in tongues I don't fully comprehend God's Word or do not have His Spirit indwelling me?

Interested in your response.

God bless,

GE

[enoob57]

The issue is not in the correct light! This filling of the Holy Spirit cannot mean you get a little and then by request you get more...

For God is unbounded and the least is as same as the Greatest ... This issue must be addressed before the understanding can

continue! Love, Steven

[GoldenEagle]

Golden Eagle:

So once again my question is the following: If a church is not preaching that one must be baptized by the Holy Spirit (tongues as manifestation) and that the other gifts must be present are they not teaching the full Gospel of the Bible? Yes or No?

Isn't the purpose of gifts such as tongues for the benefit/equipping of the Church (Body of Christ)? Yes or No?

I hope you read Butero's response. I did not read it as I don't want it to sway what I am getting here. If there be but one that see's this and be called with the grace to take it out into the Word, then much rejoiceing of many follow.

The simple answer to your question is that we must make Jesus Lord, and confess him Lord. Paul said the Doctrine of Baptisms. Don't take a smart person to realize there must be different ones, He also mentioned the doctrine of laying on hands right after that, and once again a quick scripture comparison the Older in ministry laid hands on the younger just starting (Fill with the Holy Spirit, Send a calling, Send specific gifts that operate more commonly as the Spirit wills, and so on.)

This is the doctrine of Baptisms. Water Baptism included. I have never seen any of this practiced, but people get hands laid on them to just receive the Holy Spirit, you can turn on TBN and watch that all day if you wish. I don't. So in all that, there is a lot I don't understand, but I see it in the Word. I come short, yet will believe that understanding will be given. So, to sum it up, and what is called basic foundation of doctrines, I personally come short of the full basic's.

To judge another body, would be dumb.

The gospel of Christ included repentance from dead works, Water baptism, The Resurrection, Eternal judgement. Paul, attributed most of that to his Gospel. All these things was given to Paul to write to churches. Hence, Paul said his Gospel. He taught baptism in water, the resurrection, eternal judgement, in great detail as given to him.

<snip>

Golden Eagle: Summary.

Tongues is a awesome gift every believer should seek. I had to find out about it while in Prison, so it was hard for me.

I don't think any Church is reaching to the full Gospel of Christ. That don't mean they are not effective, and just preaching repentance from dead works, into a life with Jesus is pretty amazing enough. To say they are not doing a good work if they don't believe in tongues though would be wrong.

Jesus Is Lord.

Thanks for the clarification brother.

I'm interested as this line of thinking is a bit disturbing to me... Let's say half of the Body of Christ (the universal Church) speaks in tongues and half does not. Are you saying that half of the Body of Christ is either 1. not saved or 2. doesn't understand the full Gospel of Jesus Christ? So help me understand how in your view would an all-powerful God would allow this to happen?

And to really narrow down the conversation I don't speak in tongues. I honestly have never had the desire to. Does this make me less spiritual or close to God? God simply has not gifted me with such a gift of His Spirit. However, He has gifted me with teaching and encouraging others. Are you saying that simply because I don't speak in tongues I don't fully comprehend God's Word or do not have His Spirit indwelling me?

Interested in your response.

God bless,

GE

[OneLight]

Remember that the Holy Spirit can only move in areas the believer allows Him to move in. If a believer in Christ chooses not to believe that the gifts are in operation today, then the Holy Spirit will not force them to accept any gift He may have for them, but quietly nudges them to readdress this issue. God will not force Himself on anyone.

The gifts are not a salvation issue, but one of obedience/acceptance. The problem people have is when it does not happen to them, for whatever reason, they don't believe it happens to anyone.

To answer GE's question, I believe the answer is close to the second choice, "doesn't understand the full Gospel of Jesus Christ". I see it more of a misunderstanding in all of scripture, not just the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

[Sevenseas]

I don't know about anyone elses line of thought or response, but I do know this thread has most likely covered the questions

currently being asked.

No one (to the best of my knowledge) has stated that you are not saved if you do not speak in tongues or exhibit any other

Holy Spirit gift...and please let's remember we ARE talking about the Holy Spirit and those of us who speak in tongues or

manifest any other gift are very well aware of that and I think that at this time I would like to remind everyone else who is

questioning these things, that we are talking about the spiritual gifts, speaking in tongues being one and they operate

through the Holy Spirit who indwells believers.

I have also not seen where someone has stated that you are a better Christian if you do speak in tongues. If someone

has stated this, I don't know where...it's 35 pages long now, this thread, so I can't be 100% positive...but if someone

did state such a thing? That, would be their personal belief because the BIBLE says that NOWHERE...it just simply

does not teach or say such a thing...so if we go by that, we might have solid ground to stand on.

I only know that if someone is speaking in tongues? I cannot answer for their use of the gift as we are each of us responsible before

God for our walk with Him...whether or not we speak in tongues

However, and this is a big however, if you do not believe the gifts are for today then you have nothing to worry about. God does not

give gifts to those who do not want them. Like anything else we receive from God, we need to ask. We need to ask to be filled and

we need to have faith that God answers.

Are you saved? If you are, then didn't you have to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ as the Bible teaches?

If you read the passage from scripture that I have posted below, from Acts 10, you will note that the disciples knew that

Cornelius and his household were saved and filled with the Holy Spirit because they HEARD THEM SPEAKING IN TONGUES

The people were saved...being filled with the Holy Spirit was and is a separate occurrence. When you accept Jesus, you are sealed

with the Holy Spirit...you ARE saved.

I do not believe there is a passage that demonstrates the evidence of being filled with the Holy Spirit OTHER than by speaking in tongues...

at the same time, the gifts are varied and I cannot state definitively that you are not filled if you do not speak in tongues as I do not believe

the Bible states everyone does speak in tongues.

However, there is absolutely a difference between people who do speak in tongues and those who do not speak in tongues.

The next day Peter started out with them, and some of the brothers from Joppa went along. 24The following day he arrived in Caesarea. Cornelius was expecting them and had called together his relatives and close friends. 25As Peter entered the house, Cornelius met him and fell at his feet in reverence. 26But Peter made him get up. “Stand up,” he said, “I am only a man myself.”

27Talking with him, Peter went inside and found a large gathering of people. 28He said to them: “You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with a Gentile or visit him. But God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. 29So when I was sent for, I came without raising any objection. May I ask why you sent for me?”

30Cornelius answered: “Four days ago I was in my house praying at this hour, at three in the afternoon. Suddenly a man in shining clothes stood before me 31and said, ‘Cornelius, God has heard your prayer and remembered your gifts to the poor. 32Send to Joppa for Simon who is called Peter. He is a guest in the home of Simon the tanner, who lives by the sea.’33So I sent for you immediately, and it was good of you to come. Now we are all here in the presence of God to listen to everything the Lord has commanded you to tell us.”

34Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism 35but accepts men from every nation who fear him and do what is right. 36You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, telling the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all. 37You know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached— 38how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.

39“We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They killed him by hanging him on a tree, 40but God raised him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen. 41He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosen—by us who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. 42He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead. 43All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

44While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. 46For they heard them speaking in tongues^b and praising God.

Then Peter said, 47“Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” 48So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

We can sit here all day and keep asking the same questions, but the One who has the final answer and is the final authority

on absolutely ALL of it, is God Himself. No human being can dispense these gifts...if you want one, just ask. (keeping in

mind that God, by His Spirit, decides who gets which gift or plural gifts)

I seriously do not know why there is such controversy. Having come from a background where none of this was taught,

yet having been demonstrated truth, I immediately acted on that knowledge and received. That's it that's all so simple.

God IS spirit...He is not an it or a thing or one of many. God has decided to fill believers. It is not a human endeavor.

[enoob57]

If you read the passage from scripture that I have posted below, from Acts 10, you will note that the disciples knew that

Cornelius and his household were saved and filled with the Holy Spirit because they HEARD THEM SPEAKING IN TONGUES

The people were saved...being filled with the Holy Spirit was and is a separate occurrence. When you accept Jesus, you are sealed

with the Holy Spirit...you ARE saved.

I do not believe there is a passage that demonstrates the evidence of being filled with the Holy Spirit OTHER than by speaking in tongues...

the witness of God of Stephen in Acts 6:5 his attributes listed were willing to see to the needs of others apart from his own gain...

then His witness of God's Word to the murder's of Jesus so that in conviction they also murdered him... a prick in the heart of

the greatest missionary the world has ever known Paul...

at the same time, the gifts are varied and I cannot state definitively that you are not filled if you do not speak in tongues as I do not believe

the Bible states everyone does speak in tongues.

However, there is absolutely a difference between people who do speak in tongues and those who do not speak in tongues.

yes it divides those who have and those who have not...

Those who have not then-> because there is not interpretation or intuition through experience are forced to

apply their faith in the witness of the people apart from the foundationed Word which is listed as the only source we

are to gain our faith from...

Ro 10:15-17

15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:

"How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,

Who bring glad tidings of good things!"

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord,

who has believed our report?" 17 So then faith comes by hearing,

and hearing by the word of God.

NKJV

and again Acts is a place of one time in transition from OT covenant to NT covenant all things

at that time were new and unknown to the OT covenant as the signs were for verification

of God in it-> because of the radical departure from to law to grace at the Cross...

The Question now appears present day what kind of faith is in signs?

Heb 11:1-3

11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

2 For by it the elders obtained a good testimony.3 By faith we understand that the

worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were

not made of things which are visible.

NKJV

a problem indeed for us who have not received the gift! Then you say we are to seek such

as this modern day interpreted gift of tongues... and although you with your mouth do utter

these sounds you say, yourselves, you do not know what is being said but have through

faith believed them to be of God because of personal enhancement toward God... but how does

this correlate to the desire of God be in our understanding through communication with Him found

in Isaiah 'come now let us reason to gather sayeth the Lord'?

We who are not gifted stand in this place loving you but are afraid of placing our faith as such!

Mostly for what is required to receive these tongues we cannot give an accounting for in their use!

For we receive this enhancement by absorbing His Word into our being and then obeying what

was absorbed in the everyday life of understanding God through His Word...

Love, Steven

[Sevenseas]

Those who have not then-> because there is not interpretation or intuition through experience are forced to

apply their faith in the witness of the people apart from the foundationed Word which is listed as the only source we

are to gain our faith from...

Ro 10:15-17

15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:

"How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,

Who bring glad tidings of good things!"

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord,

who has believed our report?" 17 So then faith comes by hearing,

and hearing by the word of God.

NKJV

well golly cheese whiz Steven! those people are basing their experience on the word of God...experience alone does

not a foundation make in the 21t C...so yes, just like in the Bible...I can say to you "I can only attest that these things I

say to you are true. I cannot prove them...I have received them through faith and that faith, based on what the

Scriptures say."

and again Acts is a place of one time in transition from OT covenant to NT covenant all things

at that time were new and unknown to the OT covenant as the signs were for verification

of God in it-> because of the radical departure from to law to grace at the Cross...

The Question now appears present day what kind of faith is in signs?

Heb 11:1-3

11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

2 For by it the elders obtained a good testimony.3 By faith we understand that the

worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were

not made of things which are visible.

NKJV

Signs were/are given to provide proof. Gifts, are for believers. You have my testimony and you have the witness

of the Holy Spirit should you ask. Tongues is both a sign AND a gift however.

Interesting to note the reactions of the disciples when the Gentiles received and spoke in tongues, is it not?

Interesting to note that God sovereignly provided such so as to demonstrate that He does indeed treat all fairly and without preference

If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask....in faith

a problem indeed for us who have not received the gift! Then you say we are to seek such

as this modern day interpreted gift of tongues... and although you with your mouth do utter

these sounds you say, yourselves, you do not know what is being said but have through

faith believed them to be of God because of personal enhancement toward God... but how does

this correlate to the desire of God be in our understanding through communication with Him found

in Isaiah 'come now let us reason to gather sayeth the Lord'?

Well now I do not see any problem. Many who speak in tongues and want to practice the gifts have a sorrowful lack of knowledge of the

scriptures which is WHY there exists the problems and divisions that do. Think then, the difference in those who do possess an understanding

and are able to grasp with their MIND the truth and yet to operate in the power of the Holy Spirit.

Ignorance is not protection from evil or deception.

I most often interpret what I say and I know the words in English are not from myself because I would just not be so elequent in praise

to God.

There have been circumstances where I will say something that I did not know was in scripture and when I looked it up in a concordance,

the verse was there. I already told you of one such occasion. Now how could I make that up or even know I would want to? shrug....LOL!

The Holy Spirit gives life to the written word and increases the burden in the heart to pray for and to help others....I could go on and on

and I would not exaggerate one bit.

Now you mention Isaiah...dealing with sin...come let us reason together.....are you speaking of the mind or the use of the mind...I think

you are....and I have stated that emotions follow...the mind is indeed what we reason with

I would always caution anyone who wishes to speak in tongues that they should understand that they are opening up to a spiritual reality

and life will not be the same. As the Holy Spirit so exists, so do the evil spirits and that entire realm.

God IS Spirit....so many Christians do not live according to the Word and yet will speak in tongues or jump up and down in a worship

service...I'm not talking about that and do not be concerned with that. Again, we are EACH responsible for our own walk with the Lord

and no one can walk it for us or direct us outside of the Holy Spirit.

[Sevenseas]

We who are not gifted stand in this place loving you but are afraid of placing our faith as such!

Mostly for what is required to receive these tongues we cannot give an accounting for in their use!

For we receive this enhancement by absorbing His Word into our being and then obeying what

was absorbed in the everyday life of understanding God through His Word...

Love, Steven

Have faith in God. Only in God. Everyone I have ever known has failed me at some point and I have been

a great disappointment to many, but God is faithful and true. I do not have what I have by faith in Christians

I do nothing outside of God's Word....but I understand that Word better with the Holy Spirit as my Teacher!

[allofgrace]

No one (to the best of my knowledge) has stated that you are not saved if you do not speak in tongues or exhibit any other

Holy Spirit gift...and please let's remember we ARE talking about the Holy Spirit and those of us who speak in tongues or

manifest any other gift are very well aware of that and I think that at this time I would like to remind everyone else who is

questioning these things, that we are talking about the spiritual gifts, speaking in tongues being one and they operate

through the Holy Spirit who indwells believers.

This was written and then a few paragraphs down, this was said and not explained. So what is the absolutely the difference. I know you did not mention not being saved but you do imply absolutely a difference.

However, there is absolutely a difference between people who do speak in tongues and those who do not speak in tongues.

I do not believe there is a passage that demonstrates the evidence of being filled with the Holy Spirit OTHER than by speaking in tongues...at the same time, the gifts are varied and I cannot state definitively that you are not filled if you do not speak in tongues as I do not believe the Bible states everyone does speak in tongues.

Here are some places that will demonstrate one can be filled and they mention nothing about tongues at all. Inside Elizabeth John was filled with the Holy Spirit and he never spoke in tongues nor ever said to have performed a healing or a miracle. Mary spoke being filled with the Spirit. Jesus Himself was never said to have spoke in tongues or prayed in tongues and He walk like man and was always filled with the Holy Spirit. Acts 13:9, 13:52, and this is the one that everyone can see and verify when displayed for the benefit of all in Eph 5:17-21 Therefore do not be unwise, but understand what the will of the Lord is. 18 And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit, 19 speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord, 20 giving thanks always for all things to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, 21 submitting to one another in the fear of God. None of the verses mention anything about tongues. One is filled with the Spirit when they are being led by the Holy Spirit at that time, whether it be minutes or longer, the objective is to always be doing the will of the Father. When picking those to serve the tables and the Greek ladies there was no requirement but that they be filled with the Spirit and the filling is evident by serving one another, Jesus said he that wants to be the greatest will be the least, and I came not to be served but to serve. That was the goal Paul pressed forward toward, the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. As this topic generally goes, each must choose their own course.

Edited December 31, 2012 by allofgrace

[Sevenseas]

And I stand by that difference. Do you not see a difference in the disciples before and after being filled with the Holy Spirit?

There is a difference otherwise, why even bother..why would God even dispense the gifts if they made no difference

Shall we try not to nitpick but actually examine the scriptures? I did not state anything not in the scriptures

and I mean this in a general sense and not just talking to you allofgrace but I am talking to you too

You bring up passages that I really have no clue as to why? It would sure be nice to just refer to what another poster

writes when refuting what they wrote instead of throwing in everything that ever did not sit quite right and having nothing

to do with the poster being addressed

The passage you brought up is in the Bible...BEFORE THE BIRTH OF CHRIST That has nothing to do with the discussion

Why do you think this is any sort of negative impact on this discussion? If you do not want to receive, no worries, but

you cannot really supply scripture to that effect. It is simply your own persuasion which you are most certainly free

to have.

Jesus told the disciples to wait in Jerusalem for the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit is not given to speak in tongues.

He is given for power to witness and live for Christ.

Thanks