Should the Supreme Court strike down the healthcare law?

[Burning_Ember]

What they have done is rather clever, really. They rolled out some benefits first. They give you some candy before they hit you with the bad news hoping that you will enjoy the benefits enough to soften the blow when it comes to the bad news. It's an attempt to desensitize you to the realities that come with socialized medicine.

See in socialized Obamacare, the value system is different. Treatment is at the mercy of a bean counter who determines the value of your illness. If you are elderly and need an expensive hip replacement or cancer treatment, your age would count against you if it is determined that you are not expected to live but just a few more years, it may make it difficult to justify spending tens of thousands of dollars on someone who might die in about three years. It would be more cost effective to spend that money on caring for a 30 year-old who still has something to offer.

Do you have a source, such as text from the healthcare bill where it says it will do that?

[Mark2005]

Still waiting for someone to come up with a better plan.

[other one]

Obamacare is not about Health Care at all. It's about curtailing your Liberty. That's why it does not address key issues that need to be and should have been. It is a tool to take us to single payer which is what all of the proponents of it have stated openly.

have you read the health care bill, or is that just hearsay?

I don't need to read the Bill to understand what the proponents of the Bil have openly said. It is a vehicle to Single Payer. When you sit down and hatch out a plan you have a Goal. The Goal of the proponents of Obamacare was a gradual step process through the bankrupting of private Insurance to Single Payer. It's why Obama has granted so many waivers until after this next election. He didn't want the system crashing before then and ruining his chances at Re-Election when he will be unaccountable should he be re-elected.

All you need to know is what the Goal of the Plan is. The rest is just the tree's in the forest. Every plan has a Goal.

Dave, those people did not get what they wanted in this bill. You say that the proponents of this bill say that is what they want...... but they didn't get it.

Do you realize that the presidents czar (Ezekiel Manuel) himself told the president that a single payer system would be the worst thing they could do.

People seldom get what they want in Washington...... they may try and save face for their failure and tell you that this is just step one, but step two and three are not any more likely to happen with this bill passed as it would with it not.

This bill will not lead to a single payer system unless they leave the rest of the bill in tact and just drop the mandated insurance.

having no pre existing conditions caused our insurance to go up nearly $8,000 a year.... If the pre existing conditions is left in law, and the mandatory is removed, practically no one will be able to afford insurance at all. Even before the bill was passed,, it was going up about 15% a year, our company was struggling to keep it.

I hear that people are concerned with death panels, but what are you going to do about people just not being able to afford health care. And that's worse than anything I've read in the bill.

It appears to me that some of you are stuck in an ideology concerning pure capitalism and are really not looking at what is really best for "We the People" as a whole.

You say that we can't afford for everyone to have health care, so who are we going to let go... I've read posts on here about people in Oregon not getting expensive cancer treatments that cost over a half million dollars when it's proven to just extend lives an average of about six weeks. Do we really want to spend the money on such things..... and if we don't, are we just going to let them die anyway.

What you propose is going to have the same effect as what you are concerned about the bill doing, except it will not be a panel that decided who gets the treatments, but some doctor's or hospitals accountants. If you can't pay, you don't get the treatment.

Anyway from my viewpoint on this subject some of you are just not in touch with reality.....

Ezekial Emanuel is Doctor Death and a Lead proponent of death Panels and a Single Payer system. The folks who wrote the Bill all say it will lead to a Single Payer system.

It isbn't going to matter this week as it appears that the Supreme Courtwill rule the mandate Unconstitutional if not the whole bill. Obamacare will fall apart. Of course this will not stop the President. He will move forward with the process which will be a good indication of where the Ideology really is. It's in the Marxism of this plan and it will hang around Obama's neck like an anchor and a merit badge.

Thanks for mischarecterizing the opposition to this bills position though. No one is currently dying in the streets lacking Health Care in America. That's a Leftist lie.

The system does need an overhaul though and we should be listening to the Doctors and Health Care professionals on the front lines of the battle. Not Politicval hacks and Leftist's in Washington, D.C. There was some Interesting work being done by Catholic Hospitals prior to all of this in regards to overhauling Health Care. There was also some work being done by a major Hospital in Pittsburgh in regards to an overhaul. Of course they were ignored because their solutions didn't dictate removing your Liberty.

As I've said, "Your security should not come at the cost of my Liberty. If it does we will have neither."

If you really think he is doctor death, you know nothing about him nor what that doctor death was all about. It stemed from a discussion on the lack of organ transplants for people and how he suggested that they make those decisions. To call him Doctor Death over that is just not right.

[Mark2005]

To me, that is the crux of it. No one should be denied medical care. Period.

I don't know if universal insurance is the answer or not. A lot of people I know live month to month with little to spare after the basic necessities. They simply cannot afford hundreds or thousands of dollars per year in insurance premiums.

So maybe insurance isn't the solution. Maybe the whole system should be government run, the way other services are. When I need police assistance, I pick up the phone and call and expect someone to respond. Maybe that's the way medical care needs to be. If it can work that way in prison, of all places, surely we cann find ways to make it work elsewhere.

I don't claim to have all the answers. But we need to find a way that every person can get the care they need. Period.

Edited June 26, 2012 by Mark2005

[Burning_Ember]

To me, that is the crux of it. No one should be denied medical care. Period.

I don't know if universal insurance is the answer or not. A lot of people I know live month to month with little to spare after the basic necessities. They simply cannot afford hundreds or thousands of dollars per year in insurance premiums.

So maybe insurance isn't the solution. Maybe the whole system should be government run, the way other services are. When I need police assistance, I pick up the phone and call and expect someone to respond. Maybe that's the way medical care needs to be. If it can work that way in prison, of all places, surely we cann find ways to make it work elsewhere.

I don't claim to have all the answers. But we need to find a way that every person can get the care they need. Period.

That is not unlike how it works here in Canada.

[ayin jade]

In the UK, I just read a story about a girl who had cysts in her face since she was a baby and could not talk. The mom had to raise money for her surgeries. The first one cost 50,000 pounds. When she had her last surgery at age 15, after the newspaper ran a story on this and someone donated the money for her final surgery, she could finally speak.

Tell me again how the UK health care system is perfect.

I have worked in the current socialized medical care systems we have in place. Obama has even said himself that not everyone will get the care they need. That older folks will have to just take a pill. That they cannot afford to give everyone the same level of care. A nationalized health care system cannot support giving free health care to everyone in the US. Noncitizens currently get free health care. That will continue under any nationalized system. Current programs like the VA, Public Health Service etc are constantly being cut and have to limit what they provide. There is no way possible for everyone in the US to get all the care they need and have the govt provide for it. And it certainly cannot be done without tort reform. Which will not happen.

What you are advocating is that everyone get pushed into a nationalized system that will be strapped for money. Even those who can afford better care will not be able to get it because they are forced into a one payer system. So instead of lifting everyone up, folks will be forced into lower quality of care.

[ayin jade]

So because others cant afford it, suddenly I should not be allowed to have it when I can pay for it?

What else should we give to those who cant afford it? Where does it stop?

Yesterday someone actually said he deserved to have someone give him a tv. He felt entitled to it. Why? Because he did volunteering at his church. This is how low our society has fallen that people think they are entitled to free things.

[Matthitjah]

To me, that is the crux of it. No one should be denied medical care. Period.

I don't know if universal insurance is the answer or not. A lot of people I know live month to month with little to spare after the basic necessities. They simply cannot afford hundreds or thousands of dollars per year in insurance premiums.

So maybe insurance isn't the solution. Maybe the whole system should be government run, the way other services are. When I need police assistance, I pick up the phone and call and expect someone to respond. Maybe that's the way medical care needs to be. If it can work that way in prison, of all places, surely we cann find ways to make it work elsewhere.

I don't claim to have all the answers. But we need to find a way that every person can get the care they need. Period.

How about denial of a House? That probably shouldn't happen either right? How about denial of Food? That probably shouldn't happen either right? Folks need a way to get to work and a job. How about those things? That probably shouldn't happen either, right?

You are living in a Leftist fantasy propagated upon your emotional state and lacking worldview.

If you get all the things you think we shouldn't have happen in paradise you will end up living in a Marxist State. Good luck with that considering that Marxism is one of the single largest contributors to the deaths of many millions of peoples the world has ever known.

[Matthitjah]

To me, that is the crux of it. No one should be denied medical care. Period.

I don't know if universal insurance is the answer or not. A lot of people I know live month to month with little to spare after the basic necessities. They simply cannot afford hundreds or thousands of dollars per year in insurance premiums.

So maybe insurance isn't the solution. Maybe the whole system should be government run, the way other services are. When I need police assistance, I pick up the phone and call and expect someone to respond. Maybe that's the way medical care needs to be. If it can work that way in prison, of all places, surely we cann find ways to make it work elsewhere.

I don't claim to have all the answers. But we need to find a way that every person can get the care they need. Period.

A sad thing is that there are Americans who hate Obama more than they care about their fellow man. There are Americans who are willing to allow people to die, rather than allow the current administration to do anything that actually saves lives.

You know this how?

[SavedByGrace1980]

We have that now. The bean counters work for insurance companies...the ones who cut off coverage you have been paying for for years.... if you actually get sick.

When it comes to bean counters, I much prefer the government kind to the insurance company kind.

The government kind have neat things like tanks and guns to back up what that say. Makes things so much more "efficient", doncha see?

Blessings!

-Ed