BE WARNED!

[OneLight]

Daniel lived before Christ, before we all have the Holy Spirit ... in other words, God dealt with people differently in the OT then He does today. Besides, firestormx is not Daniel.

Never said i was daniel, but it proves GOD CAN work through and deliever both dreams and visions to anyone he deciedes to. Also as someone else pointed out, the verse you quoted is ot as well. the book of joel.

God dealt with Daniel in a way He does not deal with people today. We no longer have the Prophets like those in the OT running around, but the gift of prophecy as stated in 1 Corinthians 12. Tell me, what does the verses in Acts 2:17-21 or Joel 2:28-32 mean to you when it says the the young men will have visions and the old men will dream dreams?

As soon as you answer my question and provide Biblical proof that is FORBIDDEN by GOD to give both dreams and visions. That it is impossible and never to happen. As soon as you show me I will answer this question.

And by the way, what about the verse, all things are possible to those that believe. If I believe GOD is able to work through me and show me whatever he wants, however he wants. If thats where my Faith is, and GOD meets it. who are you to say otherwise?

Forbidden? Never said it was forbidden, just that scripture tells us it would be like this. Care to explain why scripture would tell us that the young men will have visions and the old men will dream dreams, yet you claim to be able to do both? Are you both young and old? Does scripture not mean what it says?

By the way, do you always scream?

It's unscriptual

the statement above is what you said. If something is unscriptual then it's lies and the doctrine of the devil. so if your gonna acuess me of that, spreading lies, (which is how your words were recieved, not in love but in accussation) you better be able to back it up. thats why I have responded the way I have, because of what you have by implecation accused me of.

I've shown in scripture, that it is possible. the fact it was an Old testament person is unimportant. Most of the end time prophcies are old testament, but there still valid. the old testament has the new testament in it hidden, paul said that. everything in the new testament is in the old. everything! To say the old testament is no longer bearing, is out of date. or don't apply to us at all, is just wrong. if some applys then all of it does, but must be seen through the crucifiction and resserection of Christ. rightly dividing the word of truth. You can't make a doctrine from one verse. I've repeatedly asked for scriptual proof that GOD can't and won't do it now. when you do provide this, or conceed your wrong and it's not there I will then answer your questions. Until then I respectful will not answer you

Yes, claiming to have both dreams and visions in the NT age, or church age, goes against scripture. You added the rest yourself.

Yet, like whall1971, you also are refusing to give us your understanding of what the scripture about vision and dreams mean. Why is that? What does the scripture in Acts 2 and Joel 2 mean?

Edited to add that I never said the OT is unimportant, no longer having bearing,out of date, or that it does not apply. You are assigning meanings to my words that are not there. Please use my own words and do not assign anything to them. That is a form of lying.

i told you, answer my question and I'll happily answer yours. I've been asking for an answer longer. Where dose it say GOD can't and won't. that it is beyond the abillity for GOD to do now. Show me. then daniel is an example that applys

I am afraid you tell nobody nothing. This is a forum where people converse, not order people around.

If you have carefully read what I have posted, I did answer your question

That's funny coming from you. You have been bulling me for 30 min now trying to get me to say what you want to hear. The fact is the verses you used don't say, that Only young men will, or the Only old me will. It just says they will.

You are wrong. I am trying to get you to tell us what you think the verse means, not to get you to say what I want to hear. I already know what it says.

[OneLight]

We will just have to agree to disagree. I know God can give anyone dreams and visions becasue he has given them to me. You don't believe it, fine. I can't change hearts. Only God can do that. God bless you sir.

I am afraid I have no disagreement with you since you have not given us your understanding of what you believe the verse is saying, so there is no problem with me on this issue.

Just so you understand, I also have had visions. That was when I was in my 30's. Now, I have dreams, being I am close to 60. I have not had a vision for a very long time.

God bless you also, my friend.

[OneLight]

The "so many people" are the people like I was who have sat in churches for 20 or 30 years and after all that time you have doctrine beat into your head so much that you think it is your own. You sit there for so long that you don't think anything is possible outside of what you have been told. Many people in many churches blindly follow men and not Christ. It was only after God called me away from the church and I started truely seeking after him did I start understanding that God is not limited to the doctrine I had been listening to all those years. God is so much bigger. I don't understand everything. I know what he has shown me. I have tried the spirits and they are holy.

I agree with you about man made doctrine. They can destroy a persons closeness to Christ, yet Christ will call them out of such a life. I have been blessed enough to not be sucked in by denominational doctrine, and have argued against such for many years.

It is a beautiful thing when the Holy spirit teaches and it all falls together. It is also just as beautiful when Christ brings people into your life to help you remain accountable. THis is how I see many here. Iron sharpens Iron, and when that happens, sometimes sparks will fly.

[OneLight]

Daniel lived before Christ, before we all have the Holy Spirit ... in other words, God dealt with people differently in the OT then He does today. Besides, firestormx is not Daniel.

Are you kidding me right now? Please tell me your joking? Are you really going to tell me that... WOW! ok, Christ came to fullfill the law not to do away with it. Everything you find in the NT you can find in the OT. If God can use Daniel in that way he can use anyone that way provided they seek him enough. Why do so many people limit God to only what they can understand???

Ease up on the sarcasm. We don't limit God at all, we rightly divide scripture and not take everything that is sead to mean each and every one of us. To say Daniel did it so I can also is wrong.

Enlighten us with your explanation of what the scripture meant then. It is written in both Acts and Joel, choose either ...

Acts 2:17-21

New King James Version (NKJV)

¹⁷ ‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,

That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;

Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,

Your young men shall see visions,

Your old men shall dream dreams.

¹⁸ And on My menservants and on My maidservants

I will pour out My Spirit in those days;

And they shall prophesy.

¹⁹ I will show wonders in heaven above

And signs in the earth beneath:

Blood and fire and vapor of smoke.

²⁰ The sun shall be turned into darkness,

And the moon into blood,

Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord.

²¹ And it shall come to pass

That whoever calls on the name of the Lord

Shall be saved.’

Joel 2:28-32

New King James Version (NKJV)

God’s Spirit Poured Out

²⁸ “And it shall come to pass afterward

That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh;

Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,

Your old men shall dream dreams,

Your young men shall see visions.

²⁹ And also on My menservants and on My maidservants

I will pour out My Spirit in those days.

³⁰ “And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth:

Blood and fire and pillars of smoke.

³¹ The sun shall be turned into darkness,

And the moon into blood,

Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord.

³² And it shall come to pass

That whoever calls on the name of the Lord

Shall be saved.

For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be deliverance,

As the Lord has said,

Among the remnant whom the Lord calls.

It wasn't sarcasm it was shock! And that was my heart felt reaction. I will be praying for you! So much to say but I will leave you in the hand of Christ. Gods love to you.

I see ... make a cutting statement and then bow out when asked to back it up.

Why should I quote firestormx when you can read what he is writing. He's right, your not. Seems simple to me. Funny I'm not hearing a lot of Grace from you right now...

Whether or not he is right is your opinion. I have been very patient trying to get you to answer what your understanding of the scripture I quoted is, since my reply "shocked" you so much.

If you are not going to answer, just say so and it will be done with. I am used to have people using the hit and run tactic here, so it won't be a shock to me.

That true affends me. Now lets see if you follow scripture.

I am ... I am telling you what happened, being truthful. If it offends you, I am sorry you take it that way.

[OneLight]

Since this is the verse in question, I am posting it here with no other words except to ask what you believe it means.

Acts 2:17

And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams.

[OldShep]

WOW!!!!.....seems like firestormx....started a little camp fire and it has gotten out of control. Respect...Peace...Understanding...only works it they are used in a bidirectional way.

Relax folks, things are going to get worst. No! I don't know when.

Maybe tomorrow....or the next tomorrow...or the next tomorrow.....Watch and see it will happen!

Dennis

PS::

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

2Ti 3:17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

[firestormx]

Since this is the verse in question, I am posting it here with no other words except to ask what you believe it means.

Acts 2:17

And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams.

I have answered you, now I ask for the same respect, go look at post #88, then lets see if you can back up your belief with more than one verse.

[firestormx]

firestormz -

Nebula:

Why do you proclaim it to be this year?

I've been in the Lord for over 35 years, and throughout this time have heard many date-setters and time-frame propheciers, yet none have come to pass. I'm not mocking, just wondering why I should believe someone's actually got it right this time?

I also know that if God said anything like "soon", just remember that Jesus said He was coming back soon 2000 years ago!

I feel the same, in all my experience with prophecy, and Thus saith the Lord's, I correct believers that set times, years or dates. I have had God tell me this will happen the next day, or the money will be there tomorrow. Never a far out date though, as God always said "And it shall come to pass."

Also be Warned, or something Horrible........... Is not in line here.

Jas 3:17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

Even things not pleasant coming from God was full of Mercy, and I was given exact detail on what to do. Like the little boy I had been praying for was going to die. I was told why even, and what to do and what to say to the Mother. He died just as the Lord said, and I already had the plan.

This is vague, and we are told to "Pray" about it........ Economic ruin........ I trade the money markets and can assure everyone the Dollar and Euro are already both in the tank. In the last days there shall be perilous times....... (Tim)

The Horseman mocked him................................ If in a vision a creature came and told me something mocking me, I would call him a lair and rebuke him, or at least when I regained my senses from the vision. I had Satan try to dupe me once. In the vision he appeared just as Jesus did in another vision. Full of light. He took me to a room and I saw something that greatly hurt me inside, He said that I needed to know this.

It took me a couple days, but after seeking God and reading that passage in James again, I caught that liar and discounted everything.

I have to say that is not God. I am not denying that he did not see something or hear something. I just question the source.

Blessings.

it is proper and biblical to question the source, all I ask is you take it to GOD. If I'm wrong then pray to him to give you the wisdom and words to show me my error however he sees fit.

[OneLight]

Daniel lived before Christ, before we all have the Holy Spirit ... in other words, God dealt with people differently in the OT then He does today. Besides, firestormx is not Daniel.

Never said i was daniel, but it proves GOD CAN work through and deliever both dreams and visions to anyone he deciedes to. Also as someone else pointed out, the verse you quoted is ot as well. the book of joel.

God dealt with Daniel in a way He does not deal with people today. We no longer have the Prophets like those in the OT running around, but the gift of prophecy as stated in 1 Corinthians 12. Tell me, what does the verses in Acts 2:17-21 or Joel 2:28-32 mean to you when it says the the young men will have visions and the old men will dream dreams?

As soon as you answer my question and provide Biblical proof that is FORBIDDEN by GOD to give both dreams and visions. That it is impossible and never to happen. As soon as you show me I will answer this question.

And by the way, what about the verse, all things are possible to those that believe. If I believe GOD is able to work through me and show me whatever he wants, however he wants. If thats where my Faith is, and GOD meets it. who are you to say otherwise?

Forbidden? Never said it was forbidden, just that scripture tells us it would be like this. Care to explain why scripture would tell us that the young men will have visions and the old men will dream dreams, yet you claim to be able to do both? Are you both young and old? Does scripture not mean what it says?

By the way, do you always scream?

It's unscriptual

the statement above is what you said. If something is unscriptual then it's lies and the doctrine of the devil. so if your gonna acuess me of that, spreading lies, (which is how your words were recieved, not in love but in accussation) you better be able to back it up. thats why I have responded the way I have, because of what you have by implecation accused me of.

I've shown in scripture, that it is possible. the fact it was an Old testament person is unimportant. Most of the end time prophcies are old testament, but there still valid. the old testament has the new testament in it hidden, paul said that. everything in the new testament is in the old. everything! To say the old testament is no longer bearing, is out of date. or don't apply to us at all, is just wrong. if some applys then all of it does, but must be seen through the crucifiction and resserection of Christ. rightly dividing the word of truth. You can't make a doctrine from one verse. I've repeatedly asked for scriptual proof that GOD can't and won't do it now. when you do provide this, or conceed your wrong and it's not there I will then answer your questions. Until then I respectful will not answer you

Yes, claiming to have both dreams and visions in the NT age, or church age, goes against scripture. You added the rest yourself.

Yet, like whall1971, you also are refusing to give us your understanding of what the scripture about vision and dreams mean. Why is that? What does the scripture in Acts 2 and Joel 2 mean?

Edited to add that I never said the OT is unimportant, no longer having bearing,out of date, or that it does not apply. You are assigning meanings to my words that are not there. Please use my own words and do not assign anything to them. That is a form of lying.

i told you, answer my question and I'll happily answer yours. I've been asking for an answer longer. Where dose it say GOD can't and won't. that it is beyond the abillity for GOD to do now. Show me. then daniel is an example that applys

I am afraid you tell nobody nothing. This is a forum where people converse, not order people around.

If you have carefully read what I have posted, I did answer your question

You know I'm sick of this conversation, so After praying I will answer your question. You asked me about the verses in joel and in acts.

The verse you have been speaking of the most is

Joel 2:28

And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

No scripture is a doctrine all it's own, but must be look at in the light of the context upon which it was spoken and the rest of scripture.

Paul was a new testament servant of christ who had visions. before his conversion he was a pharissess. They had to be full of age, or 40 to be that. In that time it was not young but old. it was years later that paul recieved the last of the visions of christ he recieved. he was physically old. John , the one who recieved the book of revelation was older by that days standard and ours. the verse states old men shall dream dreams, but both of them had visions. How can this be? There can only be one explaination for this. the verse in acts and joel isn't speaking of just a physical age but a spiritual and physical age. an example would be, someone who was older but a babe in christ (young) or someone who was young in earthly age but mature (old) in the lord. there by one person can be both. Paul was scriptually and without refute older when he had his visions. I see no other possible doctrinal answer. if an older person in physical age can have visions, then GOD can give anyone a dream or vision he chooses to. You have built your entire arguement on this one verse. that is unscriptual. Now I've answered your question. Please answer mine, can you give me another verse?

I am glad you finally gave a reason, though it was not an answer to the question. I was getting sick of asking myself.

I know about the Apostles and their special anointing. We are not an Apostle though. God is not using us to write scripture. The Holy Spirit gives such to the body as He sees fit, not that we can take what we feel we can from scripture when it comes to the gifts or His anointing.

Why does scripture say what it says in Acts 2 and Joel 2 if it is not true?

[firestormx]

the scripture is true. and means what it says, but paul was an old man when he had his visions. How do you explain that. i answered you. I believe the verse is talking about spiritual and physical age, otherwise paul contridicted it. GOD don't contridict himself for no one. Can you provide me with another verse. if you can't then I'm left with believing you have built this doctrine on 1 verse regardless of it's meaning.